I've always thought the traditional view of Joseph and Mary alone with their donkey is pretty stupid. They went where they did because it was Joseph's homeland. As it was also the homeland of his mother, father, brothers, sisters, cousins, they would also have had to travel ... I 'd suppose there was actually quite a big group of people in the "Joseph" party, of the "lineage of David." Some of them would be women who had given birth - maybe some even worked as midwives. They would probably have met up witih others travelling the same way, gone together for safety from bandits.
Wasn't Mary herself supposed to be of the lineage of David? If so, her own mother (if still alive) would be travelling with the party. And what mother wouldn't want to be with her special daughter as she gave birth to her firstborn? Perhaps even cousin Elizabeth with the six month old John would have been in the party.
Don't you think that God would have provided suitable people to help Mary, to make sure the birth went absolutely perfectly? Kindly women who understood the fear of a new mother-to-be? Unjudgmental women - for this unmarried mother. Mary's own mother and people she had known a long time, to help her and comfort her in this frightening time. Elizabeth, to whom Mary had run when she first became pregnant.
And the innkeeper would have had a wife and servants to help in the running of the caravanserai. They would have done what they could to keep the young woman comfortable. Who knows what comforts they arranged for her? Hot water? Clean sheets? Curtaining, for privacy?
I think perhaps Joseph would have been somewhat bewildered, but then also, perhaps amazed, at the tremendous support that had been provided just for this birth - the fine women who were there to help.
Even though Joseph had probably seen animals - sheep, cows - giving birth (they were country people after all) and he may well have known something of what to do at a birth - I don't really see God leaving it all to the inexperienced Joseph - not even a shepherd boy himself - to deliver his Son.
The innkeeper and his wife and servants would have been expecting a big influx of people. They would have prepared. They would have their own cattle (if they had any) in the fields just for the period (don't forget, the shepherds were watching their flocks in the fields). This particular stable may well have been just for the pack animals of those who were staying at the inn. Perhaps he had rented a field elsewhere where those pack animals could be kept so that he could rent out the stable as living accommodation - got it all prepared weeks before, scrubbed out, folding chairs neatly in the corner, camp beds laid out in lines... not exactly, but you get the idea.
Heck, in our culture when we know there is a big event coming - people rent out rooms in their houses, sometimes their whole house - to strangers. In Greece and perhaps other mediterranean countries, in the summer when there is a big influx of visitors, the residents sleep on their flat roofs and let their bedrooms to tourists. The savvy Bethlehemites would have been out to make a buck or two from the people who had to be there; perhaps some of them were partying on their roofs.
It's time to throw away the Christmas card idea (oh so twee) of a cute snow-covered shack with a radiant baby, two adults, a grinning donkey and a few random sheep. Oh and the shepherds and the three kings. Wayfers don't generally understand the shepherds and the "3 kings" to be there at the same time; nor even that there were three foreigners nor that they were kings- just astrologers and wise men. And yet those same wayfers seem to think there were only two people and a baby in the shack.
being a non-wayfer and my wife an X one.... I think it was last year we went with her mom and her fellowship to look at Jupiter or whatever near christmas. Because of the book "Jesus Christ our Promised seed" Well I read some of it. I didn't have much time to research it or the other Ideas. I just noticed that there was a lot on the subject a lot of qualified people saying this year or that year... General consensus would be September or early October of the other sources. No one really gave a date sept 11 and time of day 6pm tp 9pm.
He may be right but he can also be wrong... I don't think there is enough information on such a non-important issue...
It shocked my wife that most christians do not believe that Jesus was born on the 25th. At least the ones that I grew up with and that is what they taught in BIble school.
A family relative asked what I thought of the book. She told her that I read other sources that disagreed with VPWs findings. She said that VPW was more qualified than most.. My wife tried to explain to her that these people where experts in either history and or astrology.
She wouldn't hear anything of it. Blind obedience to VPW.
I talked to another guy about the book he said it is impossible for the book to be wrong because it is done with maps and astrology and I said so did the other people.... I said possibly his math might be off.
It is amazing the facade that they teach people in "The Way" about people in church and what they teach. I knew prior to my wife about the general falseness of Christmas stories told by our media and consumer society.
The problem is that it seems "The Way" brands it as the church doing it.
Recommended Posts
Twinky
I've always thought the traditional view of Joseph and Mary alone with their donkey is pretty stupid. They went where they did because it was Joseph's homeland. As it was also the homeland of his mother, father, brothers, sisters, cousins, they would also have had to travel ... I 'd suppose there was actually quite a big group of people in the "Joseph" party, of the "lineage of David." Some of them would be women who had given birth - maybe some even worked as midwives. They would probably have met up witih others travelling the same way, gone together for safety from bandits.
Wasn't Mary herself supposed to be of the lineage of David? If so, her own mother (if still alive) would be travelling with the party. And what mother wouldn't want to be with her special daughter as she gave birth to her firstborn? Perhaps even cousin Elizabeth with the six month old John would have been in the party.
Don't you think that God would have provided suitable people to help Mary, to make sure the birth went absolutely perfectly? Kindly women who understood the fear of a new mother-to-be? Unjudgmental women - for this unmarried mother. Mary's own mother and people she had known a long time, to help her and comfort her in this frightening time. Elizabeth, to whom Mary had run when she first became pregnant.
And the innkeeper would have had a wife and servants to help in the running of the caravanserai. They would have done what they could to keep the young woman comfortable. Who knows what comforts they arranged for her? Hot water? Clean sheets? Curtaining, for privacy?
I think perhaps Joseph would have been somewhat bewildered, but then also, perhaps amazed, at the tremendous support that had been provided just for this birth - the fine women who were there to help.
Even though Joseph had probably seen animals - sheep, cows - giving birth (they were country people after all) and he may well have known something of what to do at a birth - I don't really see God leaving it all to the inexperienced Joseph - not even a shepherd boy himself - to deliver his Son.
The innkeeper and his wife and servants would have been expecting a big influx of people. They would have prepared. They would have their own cattle (if they had any) in the fields just for the period (don't forget, the shepherds were watching their flocks in the fields). This particular stable may well have been just for the pack animals of those who were staying at the inn. Perhaps he had rented a field elsewhere where those pack animals could be kept so that he could rent out the stable as living accommodation - got it all prepared weeks before, scrubbed out, folding chairs neatly in the corner, camp beds laid out in lines... not exactly, but you get the idea.
Heck, in our culture when we know there is a big event coming - people rent out rooms in their houses, sometimes their whole house - to strangers. In Greece and perhaps other mediterranean countries, in the summer when there is a big influx of visitors, the residents sleep on their flat roofs and let their bedrooms to tourists. The savvy Bethlehemites would have been out to make a buck or two from the people who had to be there; perhaps some of them were partying on their roofs.
It's time to throw away the Christmas card idea (oh so twee) of a cute snow-covered shack with a radiant baby, two adults, a grinning donkey and a few random sheep. Oh and the shepherds and the three kings. Wayfers don't generally understand the shepherds and the "3 kings" to be there at the same time; nor even that there were three foreigners nor that they were kings- just astrologers and wise men. And yet those same wayfers seem to think there were only two people and a baby in the shack.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Naten00
being a non-wayfer and my wife an X one.... I think it was last year we went with her mom and her fellowship to look at Jupiter or whatever near christmas. Because of the book "Jesus Christ our Promised seed" Well I read some of it. I didn't have much time to research it or the other Ideas. I just noticed that there was a lot on the subject a lot of qualified people saying this year or that year... General consensus would be September or early October of the other sources. No one really gave a date sept 11 and time of day 6pm tp 9pm.
He may be right but he can also be wrong... I don't think there is enough information on such a non-important issue...
It shocked my wife that most christians do not believe that Jesus was born on the 25th. At least the ones that I grew up with and that is what they taught in BIble school.
A family relative asked what I thought of the book. She told her that I read other sources that disagreed with VPWs findings. She said that VPW was more qualified than most.. My wife tried to explain to her that these people where experts in either history and or astrology.
She wouldn't hear anything of it. Blind obedience to VPW.
I talked to another guy about the book he said it is impossible for the book to be wrong because it is done with maps and astrology and I said so did the other people.... I said possibly his math might be off.
It is amazing the facade that they teach people in "The Way" about people in church and what they teach. I knew prior to my wife about the general falseness of Christmas stories told by our media and consumer society.
The problem is that it seems "The Way" brands it as the church doing it.
In either case it can be frustrating.
Nate
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.