For those who have not seen The Exorcism of Emily Rose, I watched it last week and it was good.
It's a very interesting story in a courtroom setting.
Here is a review from americancatholic.org:
THE EXORCISM OF EMILY ROSE
THE EXORCISM OF EMILY ROSE (not rated, PG-13): Emily Rose (Jennifer Carpenter) is dead at age 19. Her shocked family is grieving and afraid.
The parish priest, Father Moore (Tom Wilkinson), is charged with criminally negligent homicide because he supposedly told Emily to stop taking the medicine the doctors had prescribed. The young woman had been diagnosed with an epileptic psychotic disorder. But Father Moore and Emily believed the seizures were demonic possession.
Erin Bruner (Laura Linney), an agnostic criminal attorney, defends the priest. Ethan Thomas (Campbell Scott) is the Methodist prosecuting attorney who believes only in science and facts. Through a series of chilling flashbacks, including a recording made of the exorcism, Emily’s story is told.
This horror film plays on the viewer’s fear of the cosmic supernatural unknown, as this genre often does. Director Scott Derrickson, who co-wrote Hellraiser: Inferno with Paul Harris Boardman, is at home with the religious horror genre. But he also has a rather Calvinistic theological agenda that seeks to scare people into faith rather than address the serious decision of when to exorcise people or when to refer them to psychiatric care.
Emily Rose is loosely based on the 1976 case of Anneliese Michel, who died at age 23. Two Bavarian priests were convicted of negligent homicide for their part in discontinuing her medication in favor of exorcism.
This film is not a remake of The Exorcist, although it does set up a similar contest between science and faith. Emily’s story is about her fate to witness to the darkness, not the light. Her epitaph is to “work out your salvation with fear and trembling” (Philippians 2:12). Disturbing content and images.
Having seen that your initial complaints about Roman Catholicism
were in error and without merit,
you wasted no time in finding all NEW complaints about them,
without pausing for anything like saying
"I was wrong in my beliefs, having based them upon what
lcm, vpw and the others said about Roman Catholicism".
That's not a particular form of time-efficiency that would have
occurred to me.
The particular quotes he decided to extract for us (apparently as criticism), I don't actually see as any kind of a problem. Although, frankly, if he wanted to go through each of them in detail, I believe that it would be more appropriate to do so within the 'doctrinal' forum.
One thing I'd caution anybody, though, is that the use of St. Anthony's Messanger as an authoritative source for Catholic doctrine is a risky venture...there are positions taken on that site that are heterodox and do not reflect the position of the Church. If one wishes to discuss Catholic doctrine, it is easy enough to go to the Vatican's site and review the text of the actual documents involved. Or there are other sites that are more orthodox that would provide a better view. For example: www.ewtn.com www.catholicculture.org www.biblicalcatholic.com www.adoremus.org www.catholicliturgy.com and so on.
But Wordwolf, please recognize that folks like Oldies will never acknowledge that anything positive or good can possibly come out of the Church. Just part of life.
But WordWolf, please recognize that folks like Oldies will never acknowledge that anything positive or good can possibly come out of the Church. Just part of life.
I've suspected that.
vpw is forgiveable, twi corps were well-intentioned,
vpw is forgiveable, twi corps were well-intentioned,
but the RC Church must be razed to the ground.
Happy new year!
Hope that my spelling and grammar improve.
In my opinion to know the truth fo God´s Word we have to evaluate what the other Christian groups are doing, what are they teaching, not just TWI or the splinters, also the big churches. This is a posicion that WordWolf post in an other topic and I agreed with it.
It is a fact that the Christianity has a lot of doctrinal error after 20 centruies. For example: Jesus is God or Mary mother of God. Also that VPW plagiarized and did other sins. Also LCM, but who did not, do not or does not have sin? They are going to face God for what have they done either do us.
Twist the Word is a very bad thing. Change things, add things and other forms of adulteration is sinful.
In other topic Raf shared about his students and put and example, he said that if someone master PFAL just get a 75 or a "C" minus and that the importan idea is to master God´s Word. I am agreed with that we have to master God´s Word. Every one of us if we are interested are going to do their best to do so.
What I am telling in this topic is that you may go to RC chuch u other and never born again, that is not just 75 if that happen that people is lost. A fact is that the RC church had added a lot of water to the milk!
VPW, LCM and TWI maybe are full of prunes, but if some master its doctrine can born again and get a 75...
"What I am telling in this topic is that you may go to RC chuch u other and never born again, that is not just 75 if that happen that people is lost. A fact is that the RC church had added a lot of water to the milk!"
Are you God that you know who has found salvation and favor with God?
No, of course I am not, I am just a Mexican. But God´s Word said so. All the people that want to born again have to confess Jesus as Lord of their lives, no Mother Mary or other thing. The Word is very clear in that subject.
Like you, I have spent my share of years in TWI, an organization that fed people lies for profit and power. Therefore, I feel I can speak with some sense of understanding when I suggest that instead of continuing in the arrogance that we were taught via TWI, you rethink and rework what you were taught. God teaches those who are meek to learn, not those who believe they already have the answers.
I would also recommend praying and meditating on these subjects, as knowledge alone "puffeth up". I do not pretend to have the answers, because I am still seeking. But I do know that no God who holds people to a legalistic standard regarding words can be all loving. No God who would condemn those who've never been taught can be all loving.
Would you condemn your child for having never been taught something? I doubt it.
Like you, I have spent my share of years in TWI, an organization that fed people lies for profit and power. Therefore, I feel I can speak with some sense of understanding when I suggest that instead of continuing in the arrogance that we were taught via TWI, you rethink and rework what you were taught. God teaches those who are meek to learn, not those who believe they already have the answers.
I would also recommend praying and meditating on these subjects, as knowledge alone "puffeth up". I do not pretend to have the answers, because I am still seeking. But I do know that no God who holds people to a legalistic standard regarding words can be all loving. No God who would condemn those who've never been taught can be all loving.
Would you condemn your child for having never been taught something? I doubt it.
My thinking is different I appreciate the things TWI taught me also the years that I spend with them, the teachings and the fellowship, the commitment to something important, something difficult but important. I am sad because LCM failed, but he will answer God for what he did. Also he is paying in this day and time. He is alone very much alone.
A fact is that VPW plagiarized PFAL class and other materials, that does not make the investigation wrong by itself, the things that were rightly divided are rightly divided. That does not mean that all TWI born again believers are/was/were full of prunes. Also that does not mean that God does not exist and that we have no Lord.
I put my best to do the things that I did when I was in TWI. Also love the people because I share the word with the best of my ability. Also I did stupid things and I will answer God for that.
For me it is not the time to negate my teacher: LCM; neither my ministery: TWI; neither my Lord: Jesus Christ; neither My God: The one and only God. Also every body may believe what ever they want.
On top of which, I have trouble believing that someone who has no problem dredging up the centuries-old sins of the Catholic Church thinks there's somehow something unforgiving about recognizing the truth of 30-year-old sins.
>>
This quote was in the "Are the Dead Alive Now" was plagiarized" thread but I feel it has some application here.
This statement rang very true for me. Die hard VPW supporters so readily forget VPW's problems yet cling so tenaciously to all offenses (real and imagined) of the Catholic church. Worse, many of these catholic-haters have no academic exposure to the history of the CC except that which was taught in TWI. Sure. Now some Way die-hard will google the CC and post links to entire sites detailing problems with the CC BUT they get upset that a single site such as Greasespot exists to discuss the problems of TWI which in its relatively short existence has caused a mountain of heartache. I'm sure if TWI had been around as long as the CC , there would be lots more to discuss in terms of problems but TWI has been party to lots of misey even in its short time.
Ya know, I've pretty much just gotten to the point where I don't care what or how other people believe and I don't worry about whether or not they're going to heaven and are "born again" according to how I may think someone is to get born again. Who am I to worry about others and what they believe?
I have enough problems and things in my own life that deserve attention.
I really like the answer someone gave Barbara Walters on her "What is Heaven?" show. They said, "That's up to God, not me. I'm doing what I think is best and others do what they think is best. Everyone is doing the best they can and it's not my place to judge."
I believe in warning people about the dangers and the obvious errors in the things that are taught and the horrible abuse of people - spiritually, physically, mentally, emotionally, financially - in TWI and any other place where I have direct experience.
I was never involved with the Catholic church, but I know some wonderful, kind-hearted people who are. I also know that not all their priests were the pastors of God's flock that they should have been, but it seems as though the public is now aware of those things and hopefully it never happens again.
BTW, at my grandfather's funeral last week the minister made a big deal about him being born again. When I was telling this to my neighbor, she asked what "born again" meant. She's Episcopalian or Presbyterian - actually...I don't know what she is but I do know that she is a wonderful lady and I'm so glad to know her. If anyone is going to Heaven I would think it would be her!
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oldiesman
Somewhat
For those who have not seen The Exorcism of Emily Rose, I watched it last week and it was good.
It's a very interesting story in a courtroom setting.
Here is a review from americancatholic.org:
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WordWolf
Fascinating.
Having seen that your initial complaints about Roman Catholicism
were in error and without merit,
you wasted no time in finding all NEW complaints about them,
without pausing for anything like saying
"I was wrong in my beliefs, having based them upon what
lcm, vpw and the others said about Roman Catholicism".
That's not a particular form of time-efficiency that would have
occurred to me.
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Morgan
Thanks for sharing that Oldies, I have an entirely new perspective on Catholisicm (SP) and a whole new respect for Catholic people.
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markomalley
The particular quotes he decided to extract for us (apparently as criticism), I don't actually see as any kind of a problem. Although, frankly, if he wanted to go through each of them in detail, I believe that it would be more appropriate to do so within the 'doctrinal' forum.
One thing I'd caution anybody, though, is that the use of St. Anthony's Messanger as an authoritative source for Catholic doctrine is a risky venture...there are positions taken on that site that are heterodox and do not reflect the position of the Church. If one wishes to discuss Catholic doctrine, it is easy enough to go to the Vatican's site and review the text of the actual documents involved. Or there are other sites that are more orthodox that would provide a better view. For example: www.ewtn.com www.catholicculture.org www.biblicalcatholic.com www.adoremus.org www.catholicliturgy.com and so on.
But Wordwolf, please recognize that folks like Oldies will never acknowledge that anything positive or good can possibly come out of the Church. Just part of life.
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WordWolf
I've suspected that.
vpw is forgiveable, twi corps were well-intentioned,
but the RC Church must be razed to the ground.
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themex
Happy new year!
Hope that my spelling and grammar improve.
In my opinion to know the truth fo God´s Word we have to evaluate what the other Christian groups are doing, what are they teaching, not just TWI or the splinters, also the big churches. This is a posicion that WordWolf post in an other topic and I agreed with it.
It is a fact that the Christianity has a lot of doctrinal error after 20 centruies. For example: Jesus is God or Mary mother of God. Also that VPW plagiarized and did other sins. Also LCM, but who did not, do not or does not have sin? They are going to face God for what have they done either do us.
Twist the Word is a very bad thing. Change things, add things and other forms of adulteration is sinful.
In other topic Raf shared about his students and put and example, he said that if someone master PFAL just get a 75 or a "C" minus and that the importan idea is to master God´s Word. I am agreed with that we have to master God´s Word. Every one of us if we are interested are going to do their best to do so.
What I am telling in this topic is that you may go to RC chuch u other and never born again, that is not just 75 if that happen that people is lost. A fact is that the RC church had added a lot of water to the milk!
VPW, LCM and TWI maybe are full of prunes, but if some master its doctrine can born again and get a 75...
;)
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Morgan
"What I am telling in this topic is that you may go to RC chuch u other and never born again, that is not just 75 if that happen that people is lost. A fact is that the RC church had added a lot of water to the milk!"
Are you God that you know who has found salvation and favor with God?
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themex
Morgan:
No, of course I am not, I am just a Mexican. But God´s Word said so. All the people that want to born again have to confess Jesus as Lord of their lives, no Mother Mary or other thing. The Word is very clear in that subject.
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Morgan
Like you, I have spent my share of years in TWI, an organization that fed people lies for profit and power. Therefore, I feel I can speak with some sense of understanding when I suggest that instead of continuing in the arrogance that we were taught via TWI, you rethink and rework what you were taught. God teaches those who are meek to learn, not those who believe they already have the answers.
I would also recommend praying and meditating on these subjects, as knowledge alone "puffeth up". I do not pretend to have the answers, because I am still seeking. But I do know that no God who holds people to a legalistic standard regarding words can be all loving. No God who would condemn those who've never been taught can be all loving.
Would you condemn your child for having never been taught something? I doubt it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
themex
My thinking is different I appreciate the things TWI taught me also the years that I spend with them, the teachings and the fellowship, the commitment to something important, something difficult but important. I am sad because LCM failed, but he will answer God for what he did. Also he is paying in this day and time. He is alone very much alone.
A fact is that VPW plagiarized PFAL class and other materials, that does not make the investigation wrong by itself, the things that were rightly divided are rightly divided. That does not mean that all TWI born again believers are/was/were full of prunes. Also that does not mean that God does not exist and that we have no Lord.
I put my best to do the things that I did when I was in TWI. Also love the people because I share the word with the best of my ability. Also I did stupid things and I will answer God for that.
For me it is not the time to negate my teacher: LCM; neither my ministery: TWI; neither my Lord: Jesus Christ; neither My God: The one and only God. Also every body may believe what ever they want.
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diazbro
In another thread Raf wrote:
>>
On top of which, I have trouble believing that someone who has no problem dredging up the centuries-old sins of the Catholic Church thinks there's somehow something unforgiving about recognizing the truth of 30-year-old sins.
>>
This quote was in the "Are the Dead Alive Now" was plagiarized" thread but I feel it has some application here.
This statement rang very true for me. Die hard VPW supporters so readily forget VPW's problems yet cling so tenaciously to all offenses (real and imagined) of the Catholic church. Worse, many of these catholic-haters have no academic exposure to the history of the CC except that which was taught in TWI. Sure. Now some Way die-hard will google the CC and post links to entire sites detailing problems with the CC BUT they get upset that a single site such as Greasespot exists to discuss the problems of TWI which in its relatively short existence has caused a mountain of heartache. I'm sure if TWI had been around as long as the CC , there would be lots more to discuss in terms of problems but TWI has been party to lots of misey even in its short time.
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Belle
Ya know, I've pretty much just gotten to the point where I don't care what or how other people believe and I don't worry about whether or not they're going to heaven and are "born again" according to how I may think someone is to get born again. Who am I to worry about others and what they believe?
I have enough problems and things in my own life that deserve attention.
I really like the answer someone gave Barbara Walters on her "What is Heaven?" show. They said, "That's up to God, not me. I'm doing what I think is best and others do what they think is best. Everyone is doing the best they can and it's not my place to judge."
I believe in warning people about the dangers and the obvious errors in the things that are taught and the horrible abuse of people - spiritually, physically, mentally, emotionally, financially - in TWI and any other place where I have direct experience.
I was never involved with the Catholic church, but I know some wonderful, kind-hearted people who are. I also know that not all their priests were the pastors of God's flock that they should have been, but it seems as though the public is now aware of those things and hopefully it never happens again.
BTW, at my grandfather's funeral last week the minister made a big deal about him being born again. When I was telling this to my neighbor, she asked what "born again" meant. She's Episcopalian or Presbyterian - actually...I don't know what she is but I do know that she is a wonderful lady and I'm so glad to know her. If anyone is going to Heaven I would think it would be her!
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themex
:wub:
Precious Belle
I am sorry about your grandfather´s death, I am praying for you. That may God bring resignation to your heart.
A big hug
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