10 tons of munitions

[Galen]

DEFENSE-PRESS-SERVICE

WASHINGTON, Jan. 2, 2006 – Over the past week, U. S. Marines discovered more than 10 tons of munitions hidden in Iraq's Euphrates River Valley. Troops elsewhere found and seized other weapons caches on New Year's Day.

Marines found 72 cache sites about 25 miles south of Fallujah during the weeklong Operation Green Trident, officials said today. Marines from the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion, Regimental Combat Team 8, kicked off the operation near the village of Latifiyah to search suspected locations for hidden weapon caches.

More than 1,000 artillery and mortar rounds were unearthed along with scores of rocket-propelled grenades and hand grenades, officials said. Officials said most of the caches were shallowly buried along the banks of the Euphrates River and surrounding area. Insurgents commonly use artillery and mortar rounds to make improvised explosive devices, officials noted.

In the Baghdad area, U. S. solders kicked-off the new year by seizing and destroying two weapons caches, which further denies terrorists the opportunity to put the citizens of Baghdad in harm's way, officials said.

U. S. troops seized the first weapons cache at about 8:30 a. m. New Year's Day. It included a rocket-propelled grenade, an AK-47 assault rifle and seven loaded magazines. About two hours later, soldiers seized a larger cachethat consisted of a 3. 5 inch rocket, eight rocket-propelled grenades, a launcher, and 60 mm mortar rounds, officials said.

Elsewhere, tips from local residents led U. S. troops to four improvised explosive devices and the capture of five suspected terrorists Jan. 1 in northern Iraq.

An early morning tip from local residents led members of the 101st Airborne Division's 1st Brigade Combat Team to an area near Kirkuk, where they found two IEDs, officials said. While a group of soldiers secured the area to wait for an explosive ordnance disposal team, the tipster led the rest of the patrol to a nearby location where they detained five suspects believed to be involved with emplacing the IEDs, officials noted.

In Mosul, Iraq's second largest city, a tip from local residents led soldiers from the 172nd Stryker Brigade Combat Team to the site of two more IEDs near a busy intersection in the city. One of the IEDs detonated while the unit was securing the area, slightly wounding one soldier. The second IED was safely disarmed, and an explosive ordnance disposal team removed two 120 mm mortar rounds.

"Tips from concerned citizens have helped Iraqi and U. S. forces discover numerous bombs and weapons caches throughout the area," a spokesman said.

(Compiled from Multinational Force Iraq and Task Force Band of Brothers news releases. )

Am I the only guy who thinks that 10 tonnes is a lot?

TEN TONNES!!!

That is 20,000 pounds.

:)

[topoftheworld]

No, Galen, that is a lot!

Questions: Did we hear about this on the news (CNN, MSNBC, etc) or was it ignored?

And I wonder what the state of the munitions were, i.e. were they old stock or fresh? Is somebody continuing to supply Irag to keep the battle going (Or is that just a stupid question.)?

Nice to know that Irag has it's share of concerned citizens. Our boys need all the help they can get!

[Jim]

It's alot if it's going off around you. OTOH, it's about 1/4 of a boxcar. During Vietnam, I've seen trains in the US 30 or 40 cars long full of ordnance. Ammo is heavy and you need alot of it if you're waging a war.

[Ron G.]

I dunno what to think about that.

I looked around a bit and couldn't come up with a shipping weight for 1000 rounds of 7.62x.39 ammunition. I did, however, find .45ACP and it was 49 lbs for 1000 rds.

That would be a little over 400 lots of .45ACP or just over 400,000 rounds.

That's NOT a lot of ammunition when you consider that Kalashnikov weapons (7.62x.39), at full cyclic rate, can fire about 600 rounds per minute (upto 640 rounds per minute for the AKM), with a practical rate of about 100 rounds per minute fully automatic or 40 rounds per minute semiautomatic.

You can buy Wolf, which is a Russian brand of ammunition, in 7.62x.39 for about $140 for 1000 rounds. It's steel cased and probably weighs a little more than brass cased. I bought 2000 rds last year on sale and don't remember the shipping weight or how much I paid for shipping. Most everyone I know buys it in the 1000 round tins since they're well packed and won't deteriorate.

At any rate, I don't really think that when it says "10 tons", that's necessarily an accurate representation of useful amounts.

[Digitalis]

I have to lean towards Rons gross account of weight here.

I just looked at purchasing a 700 Ultra Mag for hunting with and took a look at the rounds and they are quite heavy in comparison to my 270 or my 300 ultra mag.

The box of rounds for the 700 Ultra Mag amazed me in weight when the clerk handed it to me, the size and weight of a single bullet I don't know exactly but do know that it outweighed any other round that I had. I can go shooting with my 300 ultra mag and knock off a couple of boxes in an hour and those rounds for two boxes must weight 8-10 lbs and I only have 40 rounds in total.

Soldiers in war carry much more than 40 rounds on them. You have 200 hundred soldiers with say even 40 rounds, 10 lbs worth each and you have an easy ton. And no where near enough ammo to start anything in a war in my personal opinion.

Ammunition rounds can be stored for long periods of time and are quite heavy. Ive do some of my own reloading and even a box of shellls or primer caps etc.. are heavy when purchased in bulk.

Digi

Edited January 3, 2006 by Digitalis

[Zshot]

Any amount of ammo that is used against our military is too much.

I am glad that there is less munitions that can be used against our forces. I am also sure that there are more munitions out there that have yet to be discovered by Allied forces.

At this point in time, I think that there will be a U.S. military presence for at least 3 to 5 years. The size of this presence will be determined as situations change (either for the better or the worse). During this time period, I am sure that more munitions will be discoverd.

[Galen]

It's alot if it's going off around you. OTOH, it's about 1/4 of a boxcar. During Vietnam, I've seen trains in the US 30 or 40 cars long full of ordnance. Ammo is heavy and you need alot of it if you're waging a war.

thank you.

I was trying to picture this amount and I admit that I had difficulty. Now you have assisted me.

That is not nearly as much as I was thinking.

:)

[Ron G.]

I agree Zshot...any used against us is too much.

My point was that 10 tons didn't seem all that significant in the grand scheme of things. I felt as if the author of that article was trying to make some sort of point where there was no point....or something, I dunno.

It just seemed like someone was pulling someones chain...particularly when it really didn't go into much detail about what kind of munitions. That's 40 500 lb bombs. How many 500 pounders did a squadron of B-52's drop in an average days work in Viet Nam?

I read somewhere that in WWll, over 500 rounds of ammuntion (25 lbs. 45ACP, more for 30.06) were expended for every hit. I don't know if that's accurate or how anyone came to that conclusion, but warfare changed quite a bit in the 20th century as full auto weapons have become more commonplace. More and more rounds hit the dirt or whatever in the form of "cover" or "suppression" fire.

I just have a real difficult time being impressed with that number "10 tons". How long would it take a battalion deployed in daily combat to use up that amount?

[GeorgeStGeorge]

Just a little nitpicking: "tonne" and "ton" are different units of weight. A "tonne" (or "metric ton") is 1000 kg, or 2200 lbs.

George