What's the argument? Why is it odd? And, mostly, how is it significant? If you care to elaborate.
Reads like a major dose of bravado to me.
”Jehovah saith unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand,
Until I make thine enemies thy footstool.” – Psalm 110:1 (ASV)
The significance
Anthony Buzzard is a significant figure to some ex-Wayfers. Buzzard is particularly significant to some CES and ex-CES folks I have encountered on ex-TWI and ex-CES forums. The primary, if not sole reason for Buzzard's significance to these folks is his anti-Trinitarian polemics. In the webcast I provided a link to, James White plays an audio segment of Buzzard speaking about Psalm 110:1 and critiques what Buzzard passes off as exegesis.
The argument(s)
Buzzard maintains the word in Psalm 110:1 in the “Hebrew Bible” for “my lord” is Adoni rather than Adonai. Buzzard asserts that Adonai is used only in reference to God, and that Adoni is never used to refer to God. Based on the usages of these two Hebrew words, Buzzard avers that Psalm 110:1 indicates that Christ “could not be God himself.”
White points out that the textual distinction between Adonai and Adoni, which consists of vowel pointing in the Masoretic text of the Old Testament, is not a distinction that appears in consonantal texts or the Septuagint. According to White, the distinction between Adonai and Adoni was a distinction introduced into Hebrew texts by the Masoretes centuries after Christ. It was an interpretive distinction that apparently is without historical textual support.
Elaboration
The negative conclusion Buzzard presses concerning the deity of Christ does not follow even if Psalm 110:1 is recognizing Christ as Lord in virtue of that lordship which was conferred by God to him due to his obedience unto death.
Christ earned glorification by his obedience unto death (Philippians 2:8-9), and he also returned to the glory he originally had in his Father’s presence (John 17:5). The Christ who fulfilled his work, suffered, died, was raised and exalted in his human nature (Hebrews 1:9) is the Christ who made the heavens and the earth in his divine nature (Hebrews 1:10-12).
It should be rather obviously doubtful that Jesus’ citing of Psalm 110:1 to question the Pharisees how Messiah’s being David’s son was consistent with him being David’s Lord (Matthew 22:41-46) would have produced an unanswerable paradox if Buzzard’s assumptions about the implications of the text were correct.
I am bumping this thread to the top. The subject audio segment is now accessible at http://www.aomin.org/ra/dl012406.ram . The segment is located approximately from 8:13 through 30:09 in the webcast.
Anthony Buzzard tried to push a Masoretic markup of Psalm 110:1 as Scripture in what appears to be an attempt to come up with something that might contraindicate the deity of Christ. White and his caller effectively refuted Buzzard’s claim that there is an inferior alternative to the word Adonai used in Psalm 110:1 to refer to Christ.
As for your question:
I’m no Hebrew or Greek scholar, but remember reading that the use of the word Adonai is not restricted to God. The use of divine name, Yahweh, however, is another matter. Granted, that divine name is not used in Psalm 110:1 to refer to Christ.
Following, however, is Isaiah 6:1-10 from the American Standard Version of the Bible (ASV).
1In the year that king Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and his train filled the temple. 2Above him stood the seraphim: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. 3And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is Jehovah of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. 4And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke. 5Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, Jehovah of hosts. 6Then flew one of the seraphim unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: 7and he touched my mouth with it, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin forgiven. 8And I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then I said, Here am I; send me. 9And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. 10Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they sea [sic]with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and turn again, and be healed.
Pay particular attention to Isaiah’s claim to have seen one whom Isaiah identifies as “Jehovah of hosts.” (I am quoting from the ASV because it uses the name Jehovah where textually indicated).
The apostle John identifies the one whom Isaiah saw as Christ. Following is John 12:37-41
37But though he had done so many signs before them, yet they believed not on him: 38 that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? And to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? 39For this cause they could not believe, for that Isaiah said again, 40He hath blinded their eyes, and he hardened their heart; Lest they should see with their eyes, and perceive with their heart, And should turn, And I should heal them. 41These things said Isaiah, because he saw his glory; and he spake of him.
John, in part, is referring to Isaiah 53:1, which he quotes. John also, however, is referring to Isaiah 6:10, which he also quotes. Isaiah identifies who he saw in the Chapter 6 vision as Jehovah of hosts. John connects what is said in that vision to the glory seen in that vision, and reports it as Isaiah's seeing of Christ’s glory. A comparison of Isaiah 6 and John 12 shows apostolic recognition of Christ as Jehovah of Isaiah's vision. Identification of Christ by the single divine name is utterly compelling indication that he is fully God.
I don't know Cynic, I think you could be making a leap there. If Jesus came to make known God and the people refused to listen, then one could say the same thing, without it making Jesus God.
I guess for me it boils down to not having any other God before YHWH and to me, saying Jesus is God is doing that. It keeps it very simple for me and I like it simple. :)
In the grander scheme of things though, I like to think you and I are both seeking God and whether you call your God "Trinity", "Jesus", YWHW, or even Allah it makes little difference. In the end we will all come to learn that which God wants us to know. :)
Cynic, thanks for pointing out the link between the Isaiah citation and the one in John. That's pretty nifty.
Evan,
I should give credit. The wording of my post is completely my own, but I came across the John/Isaiah comparison in White’s book, The Forgotten Trinity.
The point of Anthony Buzzard's examination of Psalm 110:1 was not that one verse could disprove the Trinity if the rest of Scripture proved it. But this one verse is often used by Trinitarians to show that Jesus was called by a name (Adonai) that proves he is God. But the facts are that the word used in this verse is not Adonai but Adoni. This is not something Buzzard made up, but he quotes standard reference works. A written article on his site dealing with this can be found here: http://focusonthekingdom.org/articles/adoni.htm
The point is that the title "Adoni" used in Psalm 110:1 is one that is used of other human lords, and sometimes of angels, but not of God. But the title "Adonai" is only used of God. And the distinction between the words, based on vowel points, wasn't made up by the Massoretes. They simply developed a form of notation to indicate the difference in the forms of the word which were known to Hebrew speakers all along.
It should be rather obviously doubtful that Jesus’ citing of Psalm 110:1 to question the Pharisees how Messiah’s being David’s son was consistent with him being David’s Lord (Matthew 22:41-46) would have produced an unanswerable paradox if Buzzard’s assumptions about the implications of the text were correct.
Neither the Pharisees nor Jesus ever considered that this verse was saying that the Messiah would be Adonai, THE God. Jesus' point was to ask the Pharisees how Messiah could be called David's lord (i.e., his superior) if he was a descendent of David. The Jews never considered that the Messiah would be God. All the prophecies about him portrayed him as the promised King of the coming Kingdom, who would rule in God's behalf. He is the center of God's plan and of His creation, but he is not God himself; he is God's son.
The point of Anthony Buzzard's examination of Psalm 110:1 was not that one verse could disprove the Trinity if the rest of Scripture proved it. But this one verse is often used by Trinitarians to show that Jesus was called by a name (Adonai) that proves he is God. But the facts are that the word used in this verse is not Adonai but Adoni. This is not something Buzzard made up, but he quotes standard reference works. A written article on his site dealing with this can be found here: http://focusonthekingdom.org/articles/adoni.htm
The point is that the title "Adoni" used in Psalm 110:1 is one that is used of other human lords, and sometimes of angels, but not of God. But the title "Adonai" is only used of God. And the distinction between the words, based on vowel points, wasn't made up by the Massoretes. They simply developed a form of notation to indicate the difference in the forms of the word which were known to Hebrew speakers all along.
Neither the Pharisees nor Jesus ever considered that this verse was saying that the Messiah would be Adonai, THE God. Jesus' point was to ask the Pharisees how Messiah could be called David's lord (i.e., his superior) if he was a descendent of David. The Jews never considered that the Messiah would be God. All the prophecies about him portrayed him as the promised King of the coming Kingdom, who would rule in God's behalf. He is the center of God's plan and of His creation, but he is not God himself; he is God's son.
Looking in the Hebrew Lexicon, Adonai is listed as a "name of a person" and Adoni says to refer to Adon, and looking that up it says it is a singular suffix for Adoni and is used 300x for earthly lords/masters; used a polite vocative, i.e. Sir; polite style of "you, he, your, his"; Adon = GOD; Adonai Yhwh = MY GOD YHWH.
Looking in the Hebrew Lexicon, Adonai is listed as a "name of a person" and Adoni says to refer to Adon, and looking that up it says it is a singular suffix for Adoni and is used 300x for earthly lords/masters; used a polite vocative, i.e. Sir; polite style of "you, he, your, his"; Adon = GOD; Adonai Yhwh = MY GOD YHWH.
Adon is the root word. Adonai and adoni are both forms of the root. Adonai is only used of God, while adoni is used for earthly lords.
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CM
haven't listened to it cuz this comp at work is not geared for it
but there is some interesting things about it when googled
here's one
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...20;&version=15;
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laleo
Can we have a recap?
What's the argument? Why is it odd? And, mostly, how is it significant? If you care to elaborate.
Reads like a major dose of bravado to me.
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Cynic
”Jehovah saith unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand,
Until I make thine enemies thy footstool.” – Psalm 110:1 (ASV)
The significance
Anthony Buzzard is a significant figure to some ex-Wayfers. Buzzard is particularly significant to some CES and ex-CES folks I have encountered on ex-TWI and ex-CES forums. The primary, if not sole reason for Buzzard's significance to these folks is his anti-Trinitarian polemics. In the webcast I provided a link to, James White plays an audio segment of Buzzard speaking about Psalm 110:1 and critiques what Buzzard passes off as exegesis.
The argument(s)
Buzzard maintains the word in Psalm 110:1 in the “Hebrew Bible” for “my lord” is Adoni rather than Adonai. Buzzard asserts that Adonai is used only in reference to God, and that Adoni is never used to refer to God. Based on the usages of these two Hebrew words, Buzzard avers that Psalm 110:1 indicates that Christ “could not be God himself.”
White points out that the textual distinction between Adonai and Adoni, which consists of vowel pointing in the Masoretic text of the Old Testament, is not a distinction that appears in consonantal texts or the Septuagint. According to White, the distinction between Adonai and Adoni was a distinction introduced into Hebrew texts by the Masoretes centuries after Christ. It was an interpretive distinction that apparently is without historical textual support.
Elaboration
The negative conclusion Buzzard presses concerning the deity of Christ does not follow even if Psalm 110:1 is recognizing Christ as Lord in virtue of that lordship which was conferred by God to him due to his obedience unto death.
Christ earned glorification by his obedience unto death (Philippians 2:8-9), and he also returned to the glory he originally had in his Father’s presence (John 17:5). The Christ who fulfilled his work, suffered, died, was raised and exalted in his human nature (Hebrews 1:9) is the Christ who made the heavens and the earth in his divine nature (Hebrews 1:10-12).
It should be rather obviously doubtful that Jesus’ citing of Psalm 110:1 to question the Pharisees how Messiah’s being David’s son was consistent with him being David’s Lord (Matthew 22:41-46) would have produced an unanswerable paradox if Buzzard’s assumptions about the implications of the text were correct.
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Cynic
I am bumping this thread to the top. The subject audio segment is now accessible at http://www.aomin.org/ra/dl012406.ram . The segment is located approximately from 8:13 through 30:09 in the webcast.
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Abigail
Cynic,
Can you define for me the word Lord?
I ask, because in my mind Lord does not necessarily equate to God and quite honestly, my confusion re Jesus as God existed long before my TWI days.
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Cynic
Abigail,
Anthony Buzzard tried to push a Masoretic markup of Psalm 110:1 as Scripture in what appears to be an attempt to come up with something that might contraindicate the deity of Christ. White and his caller effectively refuted Buzzard’s claim that there is an inferior alternative to the word Adonai used in Psalm 110:1 to refer to Christ.
As for your question:
I’m no Hebrew or Greek scholar, but remember reading that the use of the word Adonai is not restricted to God. The use of divine name, Yahweh, however, is another matter. Granted, that divine name is not used in Psalm 110:1 to refer to Christ.
Following, however, is Isaiah 6:1-10 from the American Standard Version of the Bible (ASV).
Pay particular attention to Isaiah’s claim to have seen one whom Isaiah identifies as “Jehovah of hosts.” (I am quoting from the ASV because it uses the name Jehovah where textually indicated).
The apostle John identifies the one whom Isaiah saw as Christ. Following is John 12:37-41
John, in part, is referring to Isaiah 53:1, which he quotes. John also, however, is referring to Isaiah 6:10, which he also quotes. Isaiah identifies who he saw in the Chapter 6 vision as Jehovah of hosts. John connects what is said in that vision to the glory seen in that vision, and reports it as Isaiah's seeing of Christ’s glory. A comparison of Isaiah 6 and John 12 shows apostolic recognition of Christ as Jehovah of Isaiah's vision. Identification of Christ by the single divine name is utterly compelling indication that he is fully God.
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Abigail
I don't know Cynic, I think you could be making a leap there. If Jesus came to make known God and the people refused to listen, then one could say the same thing, without it making Jesus God.
I guess for me it boils down to not having any other God before YHWH and to me, saying Jesus is God is doing that. It keeps it very simple for me and I like it simple. :)
In the grander scheme of things though, I like to think you and I are both seeking God and whether you call your God "Trinity", "Jesus", YWHW, or even Allah it makes little difference. In the end we will all come to learn that which God wants us to know. :)
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TheEvan
Cynic, thanks for pointing out the link between the Isaiah citation and the one in John. That's pretty nifty.
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Cynic
Evan,
I should give credit. The wording of my post is completely my own, but I came across the John/Isaiah comparison in White’s book, The Forgotten Trinity.
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Mark Clarke
The point of Anthony Buzzard's examination of Psalm 110:1 was not that one verse could disprove the Trinity if the rest of Scripture proved it. But this one verse is often used by Trinitarians to show that Jesus was called by a name (Adonai) that proves he is God. But the facts are that the word used in this verse is not Adonai but Adoni. This is not something Buzzard made up, but he quotes standard reference works. A written article on his site dealing with this can be found here: http://focusonthekingdom.org/articles/adoni.htm
The point is that the title "Adoni" used in Psalm 110:1 is one that is used of other human lords, and sometimes of angels, but not of God. But the title "Adonai" is only used of God. And the distinction between the words, based on vowel points, wasn't made up by the Massoretes. They simply developed a form of notation to indicate the difference in the forms of the word which were known to Hebrew speakers all along.
Neither the Pharisees nor Jesus ever considered that this verse was saying that the Messiah would be Adonai, THE God. Jesus' point was to ask the Pharisees how Messiah could be called David's lord (i.e., his superior) if he was a descendent of David. The Jews never considered that the Messiah would be God. All the prophecies about him portrayed him as the promised King of the coming Kingdom, who would rule in God's behalf. He is the center of God's plan and of His creation, but he is not God himself; he is God's son.
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cman
Use whatever word you want, It's all one that is so big no one will ever put it in a box.
It's so abounding, abundant, affluent, all-comprehensive, all-inclusive, all-sufficing, ample, aplenty, bottomless, boundless, bounteous, bountiful, copious, countless, diffuse, effuse, endless, epidemic, eternal, exhaustless, extending everywhere, extravagant, exuberant, fat, fertile, flush, full, galore, generous, illimitable, illimited, immeasurable, immense, in plenty, in quantity, incalculable, incomprehensible, indefatigable, indeterminate, infinite, infinitely continuous, innumerable, interminable, interminate, lavish, liberal, limitless, luxuriant, many, maximal, measureless, much, no end of, numberless, numerous, opulent, overflowing, perpetual, plenitudinous, plenteous, plentiful, plenty, prevailing, prevalent, prodigal, productive, profuse, profusive, rampant, replete, rich, rife, riotous, running over, shoreless, sumless, superabundant, teeming, termless, tireless, unbounded, uncircumscribed, uncounted, unfailing, unfaltering, unfathomable, unflagging, universal, unlimited, unmeasurable, unmeasured, unnumbered, unplumbed, unrestricted, untiring, untold, unwearied, unwearying, wealthy, weariless, well-found, well-furnished, well-provided, well-stocked, wholesale, without bound, without end, without limit, without measure, without number .
That there isn't anyone who will corner this power.
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brideofjc
Looking in the Hebrew Lexicon, Adonai is listed as a "name of a person" and Adoni says to refer to Adon, and looking that up it says it is a singular suffix for Adoni and is used 300x for earthly lords/masters; used a polite vocative, i.e. Sir; polite style of "you, he, your, his"; Adon = GOD; Adonai Yhwh = MY GOD YHWH.
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Mark Clarke
Adon is the root word. Adonai and adoni are both forms of the root. Adonai is only used of God, while adoni is used for earthly lords.
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brideofjc
I believe I just said that <_<
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Mark Clarke
You had said Adonai is "listed as a name of a person," and I just wanted to clarify that the form Adonai is used only of God, not any human person.
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brideofjc
God is a person.
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Mark Clarke
Yes, but the point is that the title Adonai is reserved for God alone, while Adoni is used of human or angelic superiors.
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