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  1. Today
  2. I'm glad to know that. Something I can accept, then, as not a VPW invention. The arrogance of that PoS wanting reputable preachers to evangelize and then send their converts to him (gag!) to corrupt and ruin. I don't think many church-attending people are aware of the Red Thread; it doesn't seem familiar to them when I've "tested the waters" previously.
  3. Acts 2 & Luke 21: Christ’s Precedent Peter and Jesus were both questioned. Their responses mirror one another: each presented the present tense fulfillment of prophecy and the future tense fulfillment of prophecy. Peter Acts 2:12-21 begins with Peter being asked a question, “What meaneth this?” PRESENT TENSE FULFILLMENT Peter answered directly by quoting Joel: “I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh…” FUTURE TENSE FULFILLMENT Peter also gave the crowd prophecy that went into future tense fulfillment: “the day of the Lord.” “What meaneth this?” This is what it means: Our present salvation means future salvation which will come to pass with the arrival of the day of the Lord. Peter answered a question providing present tense fulfillment, and continued to future tense fulfillment. Christ did likewise. He set the precedent. Christ In Luke 21, Christ gave us another precedent: Christ answered the questions of the disciples that addressed the first century fulfillment of prophecy (the destruction of the temple), and he gave them prophecy that would be fulfilled in a future century: Israel’s redemption. Luke 21 Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God. But Jesus said, “As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down.” “Teacher,” they asked, “when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?” (Luke 21:5-7) PRESENT TENSE FULFILLMENT: FIRST CENTURY Christ answered their questions, culminating in this: “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Luke 21:20-24) Judgment upon Israel was catastrophic in the first century. PRESENT TENSE TO FUTURE CENTURY In one prophecy—“Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled”—Jesus took the crowd from the present century to a future century. Why? Judgment was not the end of God’s plan; redemption would follow in a future century. FUTURE TENSE FULFILLMENT “There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.” (Luke 21:25-28) Israel’s redemption will come—with the fulfillment of the times of the Gentiles—and it will come by way of its redeemer: “And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord” (Isa. 59:20)—just as Paul prophesied in Rom. 11. revvel
  4. GM, you nailed it! The GSC has opened my eyes to a lot of S--t that went on in Way World, that I did not know about!
  5. Oral Roberts taught it first. OR started teaching it with his teaching called "The Fourth Man." He taught that one from at least the 1950s onward because there's a YT video of him teaching on it listed as from the 1950s. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHnniRcNjN4 "Oral Roberts the 4th Man (1950s)." ================================== http://www.equip.org/article/the-way-tree-is-splintering/ "Charges that “the Master teacher” V.P. Wierwille plagiarized large sections of other authors’ books also occupy many conversations. This writer published the first examples in 1980, showing that in his Receiving the Holy Spirit Today Wierwille plagiarized sections of E.W. Bullinger’s The Giver and His Gifts.1 By 1987 Jay Valusek and I had also published excerpts showing Wierwille had plagiarized portions of The Gift of the Holy Spirit by J.E. Stiles, The Father and His Family by E.W. Kenyon, and Selected Writings, The Church Epistles, The Mystery, How to Enjoy the Bible, and Figures of Speech Used in the Bible by Bullinger.2 Recently, more examples have been uncovered, including (but not limited to) Wierwille’s use of: · Bullinger in his University of Life course on Thessalonians. · B.G. Leonard’s The Gifts of the Spirit in his Receiving the Holy Spirit Today and the Intermediate and Advanced Power for Abundant Living courses. · Oral Roberts’s The Red Thread in his Lifestyle of God’s Word." ======================================== DWBH, Feb 26, 2016. "Good post WordWolf. At the advanced class 1972 in Rye, NY, vic played the tape of Oral Roberts' preaching on The Red Thread. After the tape, Vic got into a rap about how he almost got hooked up with Oral and Billy Graham. His plan was for them to do the evangelizing and then send all their converts to vic to be under the Teacher at The Way. Vic said evangelism was not his "long suit" but t it was Graham's and Roberts. He said the thwarting point was the Trinity. The usual excuse for his obnoxiousness and pugnacity, which turned off everyone who wasn't in vic's Way. Lazy back then already expecting everyone else to evangelize as WordWolf posted, and then send all those new students Vic's way. I'll be the apostle, prophet and teacher, the pope of New Knoxville hanging out at the family farm where he was born. Handy dandy, eh?" ========================================== skyrider, Oct 28, 2015. "Rev. Oral Roberts' teaching on "The Fourth Man" schooled wierwille on the full exhaustive, expansive and exalted Jesus Christ. In Genesis, he is.........The seed of the woman In Exodus, he is..........The Passover lamb In Leviticus, he is.......Our High Priest In Numbers, he is.........Pillar of Cloud by Day, Pillar of Fire by Night In Deuteronomy, he is.....The Prophet like unto Moses In Joshua, he is..........The Captain of our salvation In Judges, he is..........The Lawgiver In Ruth, he is............Our Kinsmen Redeemer .............<snip> In Revelation, he is......The King of kings and Lord of lords ===================================== OperaBuff, Oct 3, 2011. You can listen to Oral Roberts delivering his teaching called "The Fourth Man" here: http://earstohear.net/Kingdom/The%20Fourth%20Man_1.mp3 And a book by book listing of who Jesus Christ is in the Bible: http://earstohear.net/Kingdom/fourthman.html "The Red Thread" was always one of my most favorite VPW teachings. It's on STS tape number 904, recorded in March 1978. Until I read this thread, I had no idea he stole it from Oral Roberts. P.S. STS tape number 763, titled "Our God Is Able" contains much of this Oral Roberts teaching as well. sheeesh." ================================
  6. As far as I know, Oral Roberts was the first to teach it in the 1950's as part of his famous "The Fourth Man" sermon. You can listen to it HERE. The Red Thread begins at about 37:30. It may very well predate Oral Roberts but I'm not aware of any evidence to that effect. edit: I remember Wierwille teaching this sermon at the Advanced Class in 1973 as if it was his own. I don't recall him ever giving credit to Roberts. Maybe he did and I missed it. It was along time ago.
  7. T-Bone, you rock!!!
  8. The red thread: Who taught it first, Oral Roberts or Wierwolf? Long story but I am studying for a Sunday school test that has topic of centrality of Jesus....
  9. The red thread: Who taught it first, Oral Roberts or Wierwolf? Long story but I am studying for a Sunday school test that has topic of centrality of Jesus....
  10. Yesterday
  11. And,.........some "inadvertent cooperation" from his entourage......i.e. enablers. Bodyguards, valets, yes-men, swooning fawning admirers.........adding to the top marquee in town. Everyone, one and all.....come early, get your front row seats and expect to be excited......"Gawd's word is going to be delivered on a silver platter." This is the spiritual epicenter and no one gets missed. The hype and hoopla was at every class, every event. Promotion, promotion, promotion.........everyone was selling the soap. ALL of wierwille's long-standing enablers had their fiefdoms.......Harry was the successful business icon, Ermal was the quiet construction manager who listened to "pappy," George jess was the tree planter and sower of the seed, Howard was the "greatest layman in the church," Don was the educator, Emogene had her fiefdom in The Way's Bookstore, Wanda helped Mrs. W. with Guest Housing and Interior Decorating......and Mrs. W. was the epitome of "The Way's virtuous woman." Add the bus drivers/valets, security team personnel, corps coordinators, research team, roa administrators, musicians, architects, etc.......and The Entourage was a captivating package !! YET...........in all my years, I never saw any of the top-tier enablers step out and do any of the "Big Six" manifestations. Not one.
  12. Good post, T-Bone. I'd add that even if we had quite well-developed critical thinking skills, these were also constantly undermined by the allegation that we weren't spiritual enough to understand... and we weren't meek enough to receive spiritual information... and (esp in rez WC) that we were in training and shouldn't expect to know everything but learn to wait on the Lord... blah blah. I saw information/plans deliberately withheld from those involved, simply to teach them to trust leadership. Yeah, a great confidence booster. Save your questions till the end, folks.
  13. i don't know...do they have Drambuie on tap? there seems to be something "spiritual" going on with that hand eyeballing me
  14. oh my God !!!! how evil and corrupt can one cult leader be ?!?!
  15. Great points Waysider & Penworks ! Ya know, this is one of the most fascinating things about my cult experience – and perhaps the driving force that compels me to keep coming to Grease Spot…It’s almost like a compulsive obsession I have - to better understand cult tactics and how and why I fell for them…Grease Spot uses a two prong approach – here posters not only examine & expose cult tactics, doctrine, practice, etc. but also reveal the weaknesses in their own thought process whereby they bought into the cult hook, line and sinker. In my humble opinion, this two prong approach is critical to one’s recovery from cult involvement. I have been involved in all aspects of security for some 38 years now and think a similar two prong approach is necessary when addressing any security concerns. A competent security consultant will not only keep up on the latest motives & methods of the bad guys but will also assess existing strengths and weaknesses of their client...Perhaps an axiom for security concerns holds true for cult prevention as well – good honest people are to be ever vigilant…whereas the bad guys are always looking for where vigilance is low or non-existent. When it first dawned on me that I had been deceived by wierwille & company – it was a little overwhelming and perhaps a bit of a shock. Almost like a bank president wondering in disbelief “how could those thieves pull off this huge heist with all the security measures I have in place?” But I think it takes a lot of time…self-reflection…honesty and humility to come to grips with the fact that it was partly an “inside job” - wierwille could not have pulled it off without some inadvertent cooperation on my part. Like Waysider was explaining – wierwille sold us a bill of goods – and we paid dearly for that in time, money & resources…It’s like some weird coordinated effort of wierwille’s disarmingly charming attack on our weak or non-existent critical thinking skills.
  16. Old Vic thought Country Western Gospel songs were stylistically better than jazz or rock and roll
  17. George, good for you!! I probably would have done the same as you.
  18. Krys, interesting post! I think a lot of people tried to tell others how to run their lives; I hated that! I know as a woman, I was expected to get married, and have kids. Nuts! I got my degree, and than joined the Navy. I wanted to travel, and do something with my life. So many people in TWI wanted to know when I planned on getting married; the answer was/is " when the right man comes along. " I felt a lot of pressure to get married; many women married the first man who asked them. I am so happy that I didn't do that; I may never get married. But, I am fine with that. I am happy being single; life is good!
  19. George, neither did I. But, I feel like some of the leadership looked down on me, because I didn't "sell-out" completely to TWI. I had a life, and I wanted to live it my way; I felt that many of the leaders in TWI had certain expectations as to how "believers" were supposed to live their lives; I did not fall into that category. Nuts to them!
  20. WG, well-said, and thank you! I did not know that Cancer was "over 600 diseases." I think VPW wanted easy answers to complex medical questions; I think that was why he said it was a DS. Hogwash!! I would not wish Cancer on anyone, but it can be successfully treated, if it is caught in time. I know from personal experience!
  21. Penworks, interesting post. I think many of us paid a "high price" for our involvement in TWI; some perhaps more than others. I think I was fortune in that I left unscarred; I know some of the women, and children, were brutally abused by others members of the cult. If I could turn time backwards, I would love to have VPW, and others pay for their crimes; I know that isn't possible so I will have to let go, and let God deal with them.
  22. Tzaia, what a polite way of saying that VBW was full of caca!
  23. Way, you did an excellent job of describing Boot Camp!!
  24. DWBH, I think of all the posts I have ever read here at the GSC, your's may be the best one I have ever read. Thanks for posting this; I need to read it a few more times to really absorb it.
  25. Rocky, I love your posts; you seem to have your feet on the ground, and your head on straight. Just my two cents!
  26. Bol, I think many people who get involved in cults are looking for love, and acceptance. I know I was; my family life sucked when I was a kid. When I got involved in TWI in 1978, I felt loved, and accepted for the first time in my life. What a glorious feeling it was! Perhaps if I had grown up in a loving, and kind family, I would never have felt the need to join TWI.
  27. Way, that is a great question. I wish I had a great answer for you. If I had known about VPW's wantonness, I would never have gotten involved with TWI. However, I did meet some wonderful people in TWI, and I truly enjoyed most of The Rocks, I attended.
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