All Activity

So here's the exact wording Joyful cited. This was, of course, MANY posts after Joyful's broadside against atheists, so he can't honestly portray his comment as a response. In any event, specific or even general criticisms of ministry practices are not nearly the same thing as bigoted comments about all or most Christians, and don't deserve to be treated as such.

Alright, I just glanced at that thread. Still, some seem kind of uptight- like, 'oooohhhh, don't cross that line' So, we toss it back and forth a little, so what? I can't really tell if the criticism is objective or if it's because I'm scoring points? Tough pill to swallow. All of us were brimming with faith at some point. Some continued on with timeless, scared truths. Others of us got wounded and became entrenched in a protective, adversarial belief system. I don't know who said it but the way to fix a wrong turn is to go back to the place it was made (well, I guess there could be a shortcut). That can be a tough pill. As the O' Jays sang, 'if you miss it, I feel sorry, sorry for you.' We weren't wrong when we believed.

Chockfull got tired of an imaginary persecution he/she could not document except by blatantly lying about multiple people's experience in this board.

It's called a conversation. Things come out bit by but if some self appointed enforcer doesn't blow the whole thing up when someone comes along with a little push back Unfortunately, Chockful evidently got tired of it. I've got .... and vinegar for miles.

If you'd have asked, I would have mentioned it sooner. Questions are welcome here. Either you'll get an answer, or possibly some links to whole discussions of the answer. Or the names of several threads with whole discussions.

That's easy. Neither is considered acceptable- at least in this forum, there's a smidge of leeway in some specific fora- but the person who started escalated everything. Had your response been to someone's comment, I would have reminded the other person to behave. None of these posts are secret, so it's sensible that anyone I don't remind by name can still be reminded when they see it brought up. Oh, "poking fun." It that like "the boys having a little fun" when they hit or insulted "the darkies" some time ago in the deep South? That wasn't meant to be offensive, either, but it sure as heck was. If you think someone has "logical conclusions" in their doctrine, feel free to post about it in the appropriate forum. There's an entire forum that's perfect for that one. In this one, unless the doctrine is "vpw didn't rape anyone, didn't plagiarize, wasn't an alcoholic and didn't teach lcm to be twofold the child of hades that vpw was", then it's off-topic. So, obviously, everyone- mentioned or not- should remember that, and back off on doctrines, beliefs, coda, etc in this forum.

This was the most expensive television show to produce at the time, costing over a million dollars to make each episode, which was one of the reasons it was canceled after only 13 episodes. The actor playing the titular character based his performance on William Shatner as Captain Kirk in Star Trek (1966) of which he is a big fan. A video game based on this series produced by Bug-Byte Software was released for the Commodore 64 platform in 1985. George

Bill Miller Bill Baker Al Crowthers Larry Todd Joe Anthony Rick Todd Bama Dillert Jeffrey Moss Sam Harmon Nick Arden Jason Steele Tom Elder George

The Night They Raided Minsky's Berl Lahr The Wizard of Oz George

You can find more stories like this throughout the board, if you’re interested. WW summarized it all very well, but I suspect many still miss a critical point he makes. WW: vpw taught lcm. Among the things he taught him was that lcm was going to have to "loosen up" on the subject of sex and sex acts with women other than his wife if he wanted to lead God's people. He convinced lcm that vpw was the real thing. So, when lcm did things vpw did, lcm believed they were OK with God Almighty, so he didn't cover his tracks so much..which is why he got caught. There are accounts here witnessing lcm as a meek and diligent seeker before victor got to him. Idk, but it’s been said. It’s easy to blame lcm. He deserves it. But there is no lcm without vpw. Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader. All the wickedness and destruction goes back to the original, victor. All. Of. It.

I kept getting stuck on "My Boyfriend's Back," but I knew that wasn't it. George

See, now this is interesting. I was never told the backstory. I was really disappointed in '93 because my young nephew joined me at the Rock that year. Everyone knows what it's like trying to communicate your faith or the reasons for your faith. Well, the Rock was nothing like I told him it was. It just wasn't worth it. Now I know why.

I remember watching it with my Dad. It WAS a bit bawdy for the day but probably tamer than Sesame Street, now. George

Since you separated sexual abuse into a separate offense, tell us about the extreme prophetic phoniness. Also, tell us what if any of the supernatural you believe might be authentic. I have some familiarity with all of those groups and frequented two of them many times.

Just trying to understand how poking fun at the logical conclusions of atheism is a worse offense that calling some Christian groups preposterous, pretentious and extreme prophetic phoniness. Maybe you can guide me in this nuance?

Yes...Look out! Look out! heh

Oh, um, "LEADER OF THE PACK"?

"Yes, it's the Benny Hill Show!" Your turn.

It's pretty obvious that no Bible verses actually SAY any of that. It was what vpw called "private interpretation." If I were to go strictly by what's in the Bible, and refused to guess, I'd have to make the following conclusions. 1) The presence of the spirit would make fruit of the spirit possible. 2) Nothing is said to be required for them otherwise- no practice, doctrine, etc. So, the "you have to" anything thing is all personal opinion. 3) Strictly speaking, walking by the written revelation isn't required either. If you do right but don't know which verse says to do the specific behavior, it doesn't undo what you did. 4) As if it needs rephrasing and repeating, neither manifestations nor gifts of the spirit are required. 5) Nothing said that the ONLY way to demonstrate any of those is by fruit of the spirit. People can acquire those elsewhere, with varying degrees of success. There's non-Christians who are confident they've achieved "peace", and probably have. But having the spirit would sure make it a lot easier, by way of the fruit of the spirit.

Keep in mind that you may hold any opinion you wish, but not all of them can be posted here. Inflammatory posts and personal attacks are not permitted. So, if your opinion is, say, that Christian dentists have no souls, you can keep that but you can't post it here because it's an attack on the Christian dentists. Ignoring simple warnings, BTW, doesn't mean you get to just do whatever, either. It just means you decided to make more work for the Moderation staff, since you decide you won't control yourself, so they have to do it for you.

The definitions of "the manifestations" -the 1.0 versions vpw taught in "his" class on Receiving the Holy Spirit Today,- those came straight from Leonard. The later versions added lots of multisyllabic words, all to obscure the source, none of them of any use. "The manifestation of <name> is your operation of the God-given ability where with, you may receive from God, by His revealing unto you..." That got slapped at the beginning of all of them, and it didn't improve the old definitions. If he was making "improvements," there were things he could have done. According to Leonard, "Word of Knowledge" is "certain truths or facts about which it is impossible for you to know by your 5 senses." vpw kept that part. But it's needlessly exclusive. If you COULD know something but simply DON'T, God Almighty isn't BLOCKED from revealing it. It's such an obvious mistake that cg fixed that in his Advanced class, rendering it "certain truths or facts unknown to you by the 5 senses." Now, THAT works. It makes sense, and it technically accurate. (Sadly, he kept on making changes, and some of them were NOT improvements.) I remember that one because I took CG's Adv class. I had the definitions to study beforehand. I was ready to ask about that particular definition- only to discover cg had already fixed it. I'm not sure about "fruit of the spirit" there. If I were to offer a GUESS, I'd recommend someone check Bullinger, in HtEtB and/or the Companion Bible.

I'm not sure. What I know is that it was neither taken from the Bible, nor does it agree with the Bible, and that's really the important thing to take away from that.

Between the 88 and 89 ROA, lcm drew his line in the sand. vpw used to take people in isolation on grounds, and occasionally threaten to kick them out for incompetence unless they swore an oath of allegiance to him. He pulled this privately and in quiet because vpw knew it was wrong. vpw taught lcm. Among the things he taught him was that lcm was going to have to "loosen up" on the subject of sex and sex acts with women other than his wife if he wanted to lead God's people. He convinced lcm that vpw was the real thing. So, when lcm did things vpw did, lcm believed they were OK with God Almighty, so he didn't cover his tracks so much..which is why he got caught. So, 1985 was "Passing of the Patriarch." For a few years, lcm wandered the grounds in a fog (according to him.) After that (1988), lcm drew his line in the sand. He contacted ALL the twi leaders above twig level. He demanded an oath of allegiance to him PERSONALLY. We know this because one of our posters got this message, and phoned lcm directly. He said it sounded like lcm was saying they all had to follow him BLINDLY (his emphasis, not mine.) lcm claimed that was what he was already doing. "If that's what you really think, you can kiss my @$$$" *hangs up* lcm demanded that everyone choose between himself and Geer. Most leaders said they refused to choose among men, and/or said they chose to stand with God, period. So, lcm fired all of them. In one fell swoop, 80% of all the leaders in twi were fired, and letters were sent to everyone with the names of everyone in their state who was canned, and saying they were canned for following their lusts and so on. When that happened, the people- who knew the locals but didn't know lcm- stuck with their local leaders rather than lcm. Since lcm kicked them all out simultaneously, he made it convenient for them to associate with each other. In different places, at least for a time, the locals all split from twi as a group. At ROA 89, attendance was 20% what it had been at ROA 88. Immediately following ROA 89, some of the people who attended left. (Like me-I was there to buy out the bookstore, to observe things for myself to make informed decisions, and to be on-site if, somehow, lcm got sensible and started fixing things. As for the splits, 20% stayed with lcm, 80% left. I summarized the split around the time by saying that the love left, and the fire stayed. So, the compassionate people were out, and none were to be found in twi after that, when you returned. What was left was people who were willing to be loyal even if it was not sensible to do so. So, people running on lots of conviction- the fire. So, that's why twi seemed so different from ROA 90 onward (until lcm called off the ROAs.)

The GSC is not a "Christians only" or a "Christian=specific" forum. Everyone is welcome to post, regardless of position, beliefs, and where they are in their life. That having been said, not everything is welcome to be posted. It's not acceptable to dump insults on posters just because they're Christians, and it's not acceptable to dump insults on posters just because they're NOT Christians. So, no slams just because people are atheists or agnostics (which doesn't mean everyone else is free game for insults.) You have choices. Either refrain from posts like that, or just admit you can't control yourself and go elsewhere to post. You can always make your own message board and post whatever you'd like on it. The other possibility is to disregard the GSC rules and common manners and lay into people without restriction. Of course, that means that the Moderators are going to have to take action. Those who can't control themselves will require others adding control to them. That's true just about everywhere. Naturally, you can ignore my post or make fun of it, but a word to the wise is sufficient.

Stoic philosophy can and does enable a person to walk in the confidence and calmness, etc. that Paul's epistles as we know them say are "fruit of the spirit."