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Thats the pneuma!!!

Glad to oblige.

Speaking in tongues is proof of nothing but itself. I'm trilingual in glossolalia and bilingual in interpretation. I would that you all speak in tongues as much as I do.

No True Scotsman

I disagree. I think it’s intended to show that Abraham believed God could and would raise his son from the dead, which is the crux of Christianity. Matter of fact, I think he was the first to ever really believe that… which is a large part (if not the sum and substance) of why Abraham is called the father of all them that believe. Seems there are probably a lot of people who think (and call) themselves Christian (either currently, or perhaps in times past), but aren’t really “in Christ” nor are the actually a member in the body of Christ… because in their heart they never did truly and honestly believe that God really did raise Christ from the dead. Furthermore, I don’t think speaking in tongues (or what some pass off as that) is “proof” that someone believes God raised Chiat from the dead.

Victor is just making up bullshonta and fashioning gloves from the bloody pelts of dead baby rabbits. Nowhere, NOWHERE, in the text does it say Jephthah sent his daughter to live out her days in the temple. The text says he did with her as he was bound by his oath: he set her ablaze until nothing but ash and smoke remained! The Hebrew word for burnt offering is olah. Hebrew is read right to left. (Can you see what's coming?) The LXX usually translates this Hebrew word holokaustos. Now, does the Greek make it clear? Let's look at the law by which the readers and writers of Judges would have been informed. "Leviticus 1 (NET) Burnt-Offering Regulations: Animal from the Herd 3 “‘If his offering is a burnt offering from the herd, he must present it as a flawless male; he must present it at the entrance of the Meeting Tent for itsacceptance before the Lord. 4 He must lay his hand on the head of the burnt offering, and it will be accepted for him to make atonement on his behalf. 5Then the one presenting the offering must slaughter the bull before the Lord, and the sons of Aaron, the priests, must present the blood and splash the bloodagainst the sides of the altar, which is at the entrance of the Meeting Tent. 6Next, the one presenting the offering must skin the burnt offering and cut it into parts, 7 and the sons of Aaron, the priests, must put fire on the altar and arrange wood on the fire. 8 Then the sons of Aaron, the priests, must arrangethe parts with the head and the suet on the wood that is in the fire on the altar. 9Finally, the one presenting the offering must wash its entrails and its legs in water, and the priest must offer all of it up in smoke on the altar—it is a burnt offering, a gift of a soothing aroma to the Lord. Animal from the Flock 10 “‘If his offering is from the flock for a burnt offering—from the sheep or the goats—he must present a flawless male, 11 and must slaughter it on the northside of the altar before the Lord, and the sons of Aaron, the priests, will spladangs blood against the altar’s sides. 12 Next, the one presenting the offering must cut it into parts, with its head and its suet, and the priest must arrange them onthe wood that is in the fire on the altar. 13 Then the one presenting the offering must wash the entrails and the legs in water, and the priest must present all of it and offer it up in smoke on the altar—it is a burnt offering, a gift of a soothingaroma to the Lord." ----------- Either the word says what it means and means what it says right there in the verse where it says it, or the whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation falls apart. Hey! I didn't write the book

Ok, I read it. Am I really expected to accept this as an authoritive source? It's Wierwille's private interpretation of what he thought it meant. No more, no less.

If anyone cares to read it. https://picturesofsilver.com/Teachings/02genAbe4b.php ABRAHAM - Father of Believing Of Human Sacrifice It might need to be copied and pasted onto the internet.

I don't currently have access to my collaterals. What is the salient point(s) being made?

Digressing ends here. Next mention gets deleted without warning

A 14-second clip proves your point against atheism? The fist bump at the end says a lot. P-R-I-D-E Here are a few comments from listeners. Comments: Mohammed, as a muslim I agree with you. But you should realize that your passion sometimes can put people off from the (true) points you are raising. You should keep in mind that your ability to convince is affected by whether people find you sympathetic or not. People tend to believe people they find sympathetic. When you put up a performance like this, it in part negates your convincability. Al andalusi did a better job in this regard. Assalaamu aleykum Mohammed, just a constructive criticism: I think you should be less hasty to interject because the conversation is less constructive if you don't let them make their point. Good debate otherwise, may Allah bless you guys and guide us all come on Hijab. don't be so aggressive. let him speak. you are only allowed to be aggressive against David Wood only because we can't stand Wood.

When you get mad you twist things up. I know much more about DWBH then I have ever discussed here and have conversed with him outside here. You’ve accused him of libel now publicly here on this thread. Was this something he was charged with or convicted of? Because there are those type of things. I did not blame you for sky dying and not posting here. I’m sad he’s gone for sure as he was a fantastic brother and great person personally. One more twisted statement from you. OS is happy doing his thing I guess. He 100 percent posted on here his departure and reasons being as a Christian not having that view welcome. Whatever. I’m not a private investigator but optics matter. You didn’t seem to vehemently defend yourself to him as he was leaving like you are now. Whatever. And lastly yes I am 100 percent f ing lunatic because now I’m going to remind you of PFAL collateral volume 3 entitled Of Human Sacrifice. Read it again. Or not. It might explain a little Abraham and Isaac and might give a clue to a blend of inspiration and people thinking God told them something.

Heh!

From Rolling Stones 100 Greatest of All Times - Sons by Bob Dylan

Oh, God said to Abraham, "Kill me a son" Abe say, "Man, you must be puttin' me on" God say, "No", Abe say, "What?" God say, "You can do what you want Abe But the next time you see me comin', you better run "Well", Abe said, "Where you want this killin' done?" God said, "Out on Highway 61"

Did Abraham misunderstand? (There's probably a glove for that.) One might expect him to be admonished for not understanding, for not listening and for not obeying what Yahweh actually said and meant. But, no, he was rewarded for doing exactly as commanded. The Sacrifice of Isaac (NET) 22 Some time after these things God tested Abraham. He said to him, “Abraham!” “Here I am!” Abrahamreplied. 2 God said, “Take your son—your only son, whom you love, Isaac—and go to the land of Moriah! Offer him up there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains which I will indicate to you.” 3 Early in the morning Abraham got up and saddled his donkey. He took two of his young servants with him, along with his son Isaac. When he had cut the wood for the burnt offering, he started out for the place God had spoken to him about. 4 On the third day Abraham caught sight of the place in the distance. 5 So he said to his servants, “You two stayhere with the donkey while the boy and I go up there. We will worship and then return to you.” 6 Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and put it on his son Isaac. Then he took the fire and the knifein his hand, and the two of them walked on together. 7 Isaac said to his father Abraham, “My father?” “What is it, my son?” he replied. “Here is the fire and the wood,” Isaac said, “but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?” 8 “God will provide for himself the lamb for the burnt offering, my son,” Abraham replied. The two of them continued on together. 9 When they came to the place God had told him about, Abraham built the altar there and arranged the woodon it. Next he tied up his son Isaac and placed him on the altar on top of the wood. 10 Then Abraham reached out his hand, took the knife, and prepared to slaughter his son. 11 But the angel of the Lord called to him fromheaven, “Abraham! Abraham!” “Here I am!” he answered. 12 “Do not harm the boy!” the angel said. “Do not do anything to him, for now I know that you fear God because you did not withhold your son, your only son, from me.” 13 Abraham looked up and saw behind him a ram caught in the bushes by its horns. So he went over and got the ram and offered it up as a burnt offering instead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of that place “The Lord provides.” It is said to this day, “In the mountain of the Lord provision will be made.” 15 The angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time from heaven 16 and said, “I solemnly swear by my own name, decrees the Lord, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17I will indeed bless you, and I will greatly multiply your descendants so that they will be as countless as the starsin the sky or the grains of sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the strongholds of their enemies. 18 Because you have obeyed me, all the nations of the earth will pronounce blessings on one another using the name of your descendants.”

I don't think that means much to a growing number of people who prefer to subjectively read the bible for what value certain parts hold for them. The only difference with them and atheists is that atheists stopped seeing value in any of it. But that doesn't prohibit either group from discussing it.

When I let go of my belief in God and "his word," other than feeling a brief loss over there being no life after death as described in the bible, only a feeling of relief existed. I could stop trying to figure out god, and I didn't have to worry about people going through the great tribulation and other such nonsense. But letting go of God as the creator had a lot of emotions attached to it as I discovered last night. Without having anything to do with the bible, the love that I have for nature and the awe at what are bodies are capable of doing always made God seem real to me. I've decided to stop focusing on what Christians have to say about evolution and their attempts to make it fit with creation. I figure it's better to spend that time learning about evolution for myself. I have heard people who have studied how life evolved as part of their career say there is a wonder to it. So, I took out several books from the library today, none that are heavy reading to get me started.

Good point. There are tons of Bible stories that make no sense when you look at them dispassionately. Abraham is just the tip of the iceberg.

Thankfully, there are others who contribute to this post. And I figure, any time Chockfull posts, then it's open for replies.

Obviously no one is entitled to an opinion on scripture except chockfull, so you should just accept that you're wrong, biased and wearing sh!t-colored glasses because if you don't, you might kill another Christian GSer to keep him from posting. Is that how it works now? Self-appointed prophets are ok because they have faith. Non-theists are blinded by bias because they reject God

All I remember is that vpw taught Abraham "misunderstood" what God meant. If this was true, God would have known this immediately and yet he waits until the last second where Isaac sees the knife being raised above him to correct Abraham. That teaching was simply to blame Abraham and stop God from looking horrendous. The writer of Hebrews 11:17-19 did not take Genesis 22 figuratively. Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure. This confirms that God did tell Abraham to kill Isaac and the mention of it in Hebrews 11 is to draw attention to Abraham's faith which is why he was willing to obey such a hideous command. (A faith, BTW, that believers are expected to follow Heb 12:1) I stand by my previous post that Gen 22 is a ridiculous story meant to teach obedience. Any relationship it has to John 3:16 only shows God is no greater than Abraham in being willing to give up their only begotten son.

Couple of points. First, I would seriously not brag about being in that company. Second, that I chased DWBH off the site is a slanderous lie. That you believe your so-called insider information WITHOUT HAVING DISCUSSED IT WITH ME speaks volumes about your fact-finding efforts. Had you one OUNCE of decency and fairness, you would have contacted me for my side of the story. You never did. You judged me on the word of a man who has chased every close friend out of his life with his increasingly unhinged behavior. But you never even ASKED for my side of the story. Why don't you ask oldiesman how DWBH treated him before I had to step in? Because that would be fair and that's the last thing you want. Has OS seen any meaningful eclipses lately? What did they mean? Before you go trusting his lying-ass word about what happened on GSC, why don't you check out his reliability? Better yet, I defy you to find a single example of me shutting OS down over an issue of faith. One. ONE. You won't be able to because it never happened. Of course you know skyrider stopped posting because he died. DIDN'T STOP YOU FROM DISHONESTLY BLAMING ME FOR HIS ABSENCE THOUGH, DID IT?

So have many of the atheists. Hell most of the moderators are gone. PAW is gone most of the time. Most of GSC did exactly what its critics said they should do: they've moved on.