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I think there are enough positive verses about God and Jesus in the bible that people can accept them both on those terms alone. The bible says God is love and also that there is no fear in love. Therefore, there should be no fear in loving God and living a Christian life. If that is as far as people want to go, there doesn't seem to be any harm in doing so - there are only benefits, one of which is freedom from needing to have an obedient-slave-to-god mentality. I don't know exactly where salvation comes into play here though. I started this thread in this forum because of its name. I see the whole of scripture shows that Yahweh is not a good god. Any supposed benefits attributed to him come at a very high price, and that is why I now speak out when people say he is good. When you live with an abusive, angry, authoritative and vengeful partner, it's not wise to live in denial or say you have to take the bad along with the good. You leave that partner and look for one that is safer and healthier. One does not need this god of the bible to live a loving, meaningful and peaceful life.

"Yet today, I consider myself the luckiest man on the face of this Earth"

Not getting anything from these lyrics waysider. Maybe post some more please.

Oh it's me huh? Okay. Let's see... Natural Born Killers The Relic Point Break (1991)

Yeah, see. That kinda leaves us between a rock and a hard place. We were either following the teachings of a man with devil spirits or he was wrong about what he taught. That means he could have been wrong about...well ... anything.

A little music trivia then, if you're a fan of this group it should be easy. Which ~Eagles~ album featured the song "New Kid in Town" and in which order was the song on the album song list?

I view Gen 2 and 3 as allegorical illustrating freedom of choice between good and evil that is available to every living soul. You most certainly are interpreting it in a fundamentalist sense from my perspective. Faith means different things in the Bible I think most count 5 usages. The idea of devil spirits is upsetting. Having spiritual causes of illnesses is upsetting. Mental illnesses which can look like devil spirits are upsetting. Being sick is upsetting. Cancer and chemo is upsetting. VP said cancer was a devil spirit. Then he died of it. What .... doctrine are you talking about? Those records in the gospels are Jesus healing a couple kids by removing a spiritual cause of the illness? So healing the kids was ....? Dang that is real cynical. Not a view I want to share at all.

1) I did not give an interpretation of Gen 2 & 3. I referred to them exactly how they were written. Would you, as a loving father, simply let your perfect child who has no knowledge of evil nor of the existence of a cunning and evil arch-enemy of yours deal with such a creature on her own, knowing that she would be deceived by his craftiness? Would you not correct her before she went to your other child and offered him the forbidden fruit you had placed in their home? Would the matter of testing their obedience to you supersede the you knew would happen after they ate the fruit? The story makes no sense as I think you know, but millions of people still believe it is how sin entered the world. So now, what is the real reason for the "wickedness" in mankind and the authority and power of the devil and his spirit followers and the need for a messiah as described in the rest of the bible? 2) Concerning the rest of your sentence: I was not stuck on vpw's law of believing. I was stuck on trusting God. There is a difference - the former is a false doctrine and the latter is scriptural knowing that the word "faith," used over 200 times in the bible, means trust. The devil spirits I connected with my grandson were not because of some idiot who was blabbing about them in a medical situation. Even though I had doubts concerning the story my friend shared with me, it was the talk of devil spirits that was upsetting. I had always been that way when reading about them in the bible, especially the one story about Jesus casting a devil spirit out of a child. That one did come to my mind because of what was happening in my grandson’s life with his non-verbal autism and seizures. Mark 9:17And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb (mute, speechless) spirit; 18And wheresoever he takes him, he tears (seizes) him: and he foams, and gnashes with his teeth, and pines (withers, stiffens) away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not. Luke 9:38And, behold, a man of the company cried out, saying, Master, I beseech thee, look upon my son: for he is mine only child. 39And, lo, a spirit takes him, and he suddenly cries out; and it tears (convulses) him that he foams again, and bruising him hardly departs from him. Remember, I had not began deconverting during this time. And even now, just a month after realizing there are no such things as devil spirits, I still cried while reading these verses before copying them into this post. This bulls hit doctrine from the bible is evil and very harmful.

No. Morse Code usually uses SOS. I'll just flip the cards here. French for "Help Me!" is "M'aidez!" pronounced "mayday" and usually spelled as such. FREE POST (Of course, I "borrowed" Human's spot, so he should go if he has one. George

With Samuel Morse, Morse Code?

I don't see you putting me down in your posts. I think the anchor that helps me sleep now is being thankful for what I have, especially my family.

you hang on to these church teachings as if they are the truth, are they? or are they the anchor that keeps you asleep, sleeping comfortably in your mind-set here is another "If you believe it will work out, you'll see opportunities. If you believe it won't, you will see obstacles." ~Wayne Dyer… and not to put you down in any way, it's just the way it is

For a while, I had been reading and hearing from different sources the shocking belief that Paul's epistles were heretical because they contradicted what Jesus taught in the gospel. I thought this was because these people did not understand the doctrine of the mystery which was hidden in God until it was revealed to Paul and since Jesus was not God, he could not have taught it before his death. Therefore Paul, by revelation from Jesus Christ, was able to teach who we are and what we have in Christ because the resurrection and ascension of Jesus to the right hand of God had since occurred. "Truth" is all so subjective.

yes we are stewards, as Jesus taught, as Paul taught stewards of the pearl of great price

Thanks cman for the post. I don't believe that God is always showing everything always. That there are so many denominations teaching totally different things on many different topics is a sign of mass confusion when it comes to understanding God. As for the flesh (meaning the sin nature in everyone) being weak and fearful, I guess it's true if one believes it exists.

You make a good point. There are words of wisdom in the bible amongst the many harmful concepts it proclaims. Some who have deconverted continue to read the bible from a fictional viewpoint and look for what lessons might be hidden in the myths. I'm not at that place though. It's a beautiful quote you shared. Biblically, it would be refuted by Jeremiah 17:9: "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked:" (See also Rom 3:10-18 and Gal 5:19-21) It's a terrible thing to teach children how wicked they are because of having a sin nature. There seems to be little or nothing written in the bible about the goodness of people apart from God being in their lives. We know this is not true! Are humans perfect - no. But it is not because of an "original sin" that was passed on to us because of a mythical Adam and Eve story in Genesis. I think Dyer's quote about the soul directing you in the right direction is wise when you believe in an inherit worth in all people and a desire to see good manifested in your life.

Paul wrote to those who have been awakened from sleep, born again, yes, but what does that mean=awake, the spirit uncoiled from inside. He constantly talked about the spirit inside, as well as in the other men who wrote letters, like John and Peter and James.

These are the things Jesus taught. It, the spirit, is what he was talking about...clearly. Instead of the epistles to be read all the time, it is better to read the gospels and proverbs, psalms....to see what they were seeing....

I could try to tell you what I see, or rather what I have been shown, but words cannot convey it or convince anyone of it, you have to see it for yourself. And God is always showing everything always, one just has to wake up from the sleep we have been seduced into. Cause the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak, scared of letting go.

you can find some answers in Christian doctrines and bible readings, maybe in some church dogma.... the only true satisfying answers are from Christ in you a quote I saw this morning from "Charter for Compassion" "Your soul, that inner quiet space, is yours to consult. It will always guide you in the right direction." ~Wayne Dyer

Yipes. I hated to watch movies with the wayfers as they over spiritualize everything. My natural defenses were to either watch stuff alone or take them to The Exorcist and then at least they would be entertaining.

Trying to respond to this I think a previous response somehow showed up missing. What I find ironic is someone with no belief in any inspiration in scripture telling me to “look deeper” into scripture. No my remark is not snarky it is in the practical realm. What is pleasing God? It varies per individual but to me it involves seeking out a virtuous life. I like my life better seeking out virtue than I do trying to parse over some VPW regurgitation of manifestations in a book he stole or “the law of believing” which actually I think we’ve shown to have spiritualist origins here on GSC. Does God “always” provide wisdom when I ask? I think so, whether it is in the form of the word of a friend, a sunrise, an idea, an observation about nature, a secular writing striking me in a way, or about a hundred other practical ways I could mention. But to you He is “an unloving Father” because of how you interpret Gen 2 & 3 and are stuck on VPW believing fantasy and some idiot who is blabbing about devil spirits in a medical situation. Yeah I get it. It’s always the hypocrites that drive people away from churches and they are everywhere. But what do you want to build in your life? Tearing down idols is only half of a renovation project.