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You make a good point. There are words of wisdom in the bible amongst the many harmful concepts it proclaims. Some who have deconverted continue to read the bible from a fictional viewpoint and look for what lessons might be hidden in the myths. I'm not at that place though. It's a beautiful quote you shared. Biblically, it would be refuted by Jeremiah 17:9: "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked:" (See also Rom 3:10-18 and Gal 5:19-21) It's a terrible thing to teach children how wicked they are because of having a sin nature. There seems to be little or nothing written in the bible about the goodness of people apart from God being in their lives. We know this is not true! Are humans perfect - no. But it is not because of an "original sin" that was passed on to us because of a mythical Adam and Eve story in Genesis. I think Dyer's quote about the soul directing you in the right direction is wise when you believe in an inherit worth in all people and a desire to see good manifested in your life.

Paul wrote to those who have been awakened from sleep, born again, yes, but what does that mean=awake, the spirit uncoiled from inside. He constantly talked about the spirit inside, as well as in the other men who wrote letters, like John and Peter and James.

These are the things Jesus taught. It, the spirit, is what he was talking about...clearly. Instead of the epistles to be read all the time, it is better to read the gospels and proverbs, psalms....to see what they were seeing....

I could try to tell you what I see, or rather what I have been shown, but words cannot convey it or convince anyone of it, you have to see it for yourself. And God is always showing everything always, one just has to wake up from the sleep we have been seduced into. Cause the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak, scared of letting go.

you can find some answers in Christian doctrines and bible readings, maybe in some church dogma.... the only true satisfying answers are from Christ in you a quote I saw this morning from "Charter for Compassion" "Your soul, that inner quiet space, is yours to consult. It will always guide you in the right direction." ~Wayne Dyer

Yipes. I hated to watch movies with the wayfers as they over spiritualize everything. My natural defenses were to either watch stuff alone or take them to The Exorcist and then at least they would be entertaining.

Trying to respond to this I think a previous response somehow showed up missing. What I find ironic is someone with no belief in any inspiration in scripture telling me to “look deeper” into scripture. No my remark is not snarky it is in the practical realm. What is pleasing God? It varies per individual but to me it involves seeking out a virtuous life. I like my life better seeking out virtue than I do trying to parse over some VPW regurgitation of manifestations in a book he stole or “the law of believing” which actually I think we’ve shown to have spiritualist origins here on GSC. Does God “always” provide wisdom when I ask? I think so, whether it is in the form of the word of a friend, a sunrise, an idea, an observation about nature, a secular writing striking me in a way, or about a hundred other practical ways I could mention. But to you He is “an unloving Father” because of how you interpret Gen 2 & 3 and are stuck on VPW believing fantasy and some idiot who is blabbing about devil spirits in a medical situation. Yeah I get it. It’s always the hypocrites that drive people away from churches and they are everywhere. But what do you want to build in your life? Tearing down idols is only half of a renovation project.

Maybe that's what Christianity is.

The weird and disconcerting thing about deconverting is realizing that one was never born again in the first place. So what was going on then all those years when I believed I was a Christian? The speaking in tongues - it was always the same sounds unless I purposefully "moved my lips" differently as in an excellor session. The love of the word - it was genuine partly because I chose not to focus on the parts that were disturbing or didn't make sense and partly because of the positive parts about love, peace, joy, hope, etc. The fellowship of like-minded people - it was wonderful like it would be for any group which shared the same beliefs or interests. What about the times I believed God did answer my prayers or blessed me - would they have happened even if I didn't believe in God at the time? When each surgery on my grandson was successful, was it solely because of the skilled doctors and nurses? Or when I got a much-needed job, was it solely because I happened to be the best candidate? When my mother, heavily medicated because of her final days of lung cancer, stopped having hallucinations or nightmares during the night so she no longer needed to be restrained, was it solely because I was there holding her hand? For these situations and all the others, they very well could have happened without God's intervention. Good things and bad things happen in life to everyone - believer or non-believer; a fact that has nothing to do with believing God makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. I'm aware of the testimonies of others who believe miracles have happened in their lives, and I am not going to deny they were indeed miracles. I speak only about my life. I also know of verses that contradict my way of thinking as well as condemn them, but they're not holding water for me anymore. However, for those who are hanging onto their Christian beliefs by a thread out of fear, seeing life outside of that religious paradigm can help them let go of that fear and those beliefs.

What if you knew her and found her dead on the ground?

True. On the trinity, can't rely on the bible for that as the scriptures vary, so must of necessity be accepted by faith.

Sounds more like finding a hobby.

I'm quite serious. After the movie, we went back to our townhouse twigs and discussed what we had learned. A splendid way to spend a Saturday evening.

nothing wrong with dumping or keeping religious beliefs-doesn't matter that much anyway get in touch with yourself, whatever that means to you, grow a garden or get a dog, spend some time with nature, release yourself from everything to get connected to everything in newness of your spirit

I should know the answer to my own question by now, but… Really? Or are you joking?

That's what I kept hearing when I would ask Christians about the trinity. "Farther Along" - sang it all the time in fellowships. Encourages Christians to remain faithful, but it also discourages them from asking questions.

Another aspect of fundamentalism is the belief in the historical accuracy and inerrancy of the Bible. I'm sure vpw had a quote or slogan about this that isn't coming to mind at the moment.

"She'll only comes at night the lean and hungry type"

I thought that was supposed to be Wierwille? His decisions were private interpretation. I'm reasonably convinced of that. He may have started out with good intentions. But the love of money IS the root of all evil, right?

As the song goes "We'll understand it, all by-and-by". Faith helps overcome the mysteries.

I am sorry Waysider. It took me a while to finish that post, and I had forgotten in the meantime who had sent it. I'll go and edit it now. I remember you sharing about your accident on GSC, and I know it took you a while to be well enough to come back on. Welcome back - I missed your humour.

It's horrible that you had that placed on your shoulders at such a young age. I have listened to other adults share about their lives as kids and living with a deep fear of Satan, not knowing for sure if they're saved or not, being left behind when the rapture occurs, of going to hell. If whatever a parent teaches their child about God causes them to live with such fear, it is a form of child abuse. I think this is an interesting quote from the book "The Argument Against God:" It would, though, be far better if religious doctrines and systems were not taught to people until they had attained maturity. If this were the case, how many would subscribe to a religion? Without being given a predisposition through childhood indoctrination to think there might be something in one of the many and conflicting religious beliefs on offer, the likely answer would surely be: not very many."

I'm not sure why you directed that at me, but it's OK. I don't mind. Last summer, through no fault of my own, I was injured in a catastrophic car accident. My life was changed forever. I'll never be the same person I was. Was there a still, small voice I missed? I'm not going to beat myself up wondering.

There's another version of this, as well. We listened to music and watched movies to try to spot where they were on or off. I remember, when Rocky hit the theaters, FellowLaborers had a special Saturday night outing where we went as a group to watch the movie, see if we could spot all the great spiritual truths it held. Yo, Adian! ;