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You were quoting T-Bone and my post really isnt aimed at anyone Chock, just quoted you for convenience sake. As for me, I heard that baby and bathwater analogy so many times from various offshoot leaders that I have basically decided that if the baby and the bathwater came from VPW or the way international then both the baby, the bathwater, and the entire tub that held them can go and Ive done just that. I think the offshoot leaders have a vested interest in keeping the baby so it can grow into another cash cow for them and they can maintain their positions as great ones amongst the flock or whatever they are these days. I still read around commentaries and such but not VPW commentaries or the way international's commentaries. The entire plant is poison.

Hey T Bone. I also have come to the conclusion that throwing out the “bathwater” means throwing out VPWs plagiarism and grandiose schemes and charts and diagrams. I actually start in scripture from where VP said he left. Instead of throwing out all the commentaries I check them first to see what other inspired Christians in the body of Christ think. Then I also reason inductively from scripture. I don’t think “the Word interprets itself” is legitimate as that is a ridiculous figure of speech not found in The Bible. I think scripture interpretation is work and it helps each Christian to live their faith. And it should be done making use of standing on the shoulders of other Christians. Just not on the sinking sand of VPWs stolen works.

Hi Charity! I always enjoy the feedback loop too! Your comments got me thinking of the parasitic and destructive nature of a harmful and controlling pseudo-Christian cult-leader like wierwille. Parasitic = consistently exploiting people AND Scripture. Leechlike, bloodsucking… living off another. wierwille was also parasitic in his plagiarism – stealing the ideas and work of others (that’s not to say every source he plagiarized was correct either – but even so, usually through the tenth manifestation of incompetency wierwille managed to make matters worse – for example Bullinger’s 4 crucified and dispensationalism ). Destructive = lies…deception…fraud need some truth as bait – in the context of faith, it is the twisting of Scripture…the misrepresentation of the gospel of Jesus Christ that is so detrimental to our belief system – look at the book of Peter on this: 1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping. 2 Peter 2 NIV In 2 Peter 2:1 Interlinear the word destructive is Strong's Greek: 684. ἀπώλεια (apóleia) - destruction, loss and it says Cognate: 684 apṓleia (from 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") – destruction, causing someone (something) to be completely severed – cut off (entirely) from what could or should have been. (Note the force of the prefix, apo.) See 622 (apollymi)… 684 /apṓleia ("perdition") does not imply "annihilation" (see the meaning of the root-verb, 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") but instead "loss of well-being" rather than being (Vine's Expository Dictionary, 165; cf. Jn 11:50; Ac 5:37; 1 Cor 10:9-10; Jude 11). From Bible Hub’s definitions of the Greek, I get the idea that destructive doctrines are completely severed from the truth of the Word of God; it does not imply annihilation (no longer being) but instead a loss of well-being. The doctrines are sick! Here’s my suggestion to reframe the question “did you throw out the baby with the bath water?” (see *footnote 1)...Assuming the baby is something of value, the great truths of the Bible - and of course this is all relative to what each person thinks is valuable , and the bath water is hermeneutical tools to help one understand and explain the Bible - I would ask “Why don’t you just start over? Why not throw out all the stuff you learned in PFAL and explore what legitimate resources have to offer.” I would venture to say just about everything wierwille taught in PFAL is illogical, fabricated, twisted, heavily biased, and inaccurate. ~ ~ ~ ~ *footnote 1 "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" is an idiomatic expression for an avoidable error in which something good or of value is eliminated when trying to get rid of something unwanted. A slight A slightly different explanation suggests this flexible catchphrase has to do with discarding the essential while retaining the superfluous because of excessive zeal from: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater - Wikipedia ~ ~ ~ ~ *footnote 2 Cheers back at yah – I usually get a Caramel Macchiato built upside down at Starbucks – but a Dutch Brothers opened nearby – so I get a Caramelizer hot and my wife gets a Golden Eagle hot – when it warms up, we get them cold.

It is written in an undiscovered manuscript. I beleeve one day that manuscript will be found, but not in my lifetime.