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Chris Geer is a very sadistic, mysogonistic man. I have seen him first hand rip someone to shreds, and enjoy it, eventually hissing at the person. He is also paranoid. But, sadistic is the word I would use that describes him best. Radar, you would probably know the dates of the special clergy meeting, but when Chris had them in the BRC, in front of the whole audience, he pulled out his .45 that he carried and put on the shelf in the podium. Here's a man so afraid, he thinks his clergy will kill him, plus, it was used to intimidate anyone who maybe, might want to differ with him. What I have never understood is why the clergy didn't tell him to shove it, but I guess with a crazy guy with a .45, wisdom says, that's not the place to bring it up. When we had POP read to us at corps week, I was appalled that those of us in the tent were surrounded by armed "safety" people. Mrs. Wierwille was right, Chris was the deciver. He played games. He'd drop a bombshell and then run to Gartmore. He instigated shockwaves, and instead of being there to be part of the solution and mess, he himself, singlehandedly created, he ran, and expected everyone to come running to him. I always wondered why LCM didn't just tell him to buzz off right then and there. Why was everyone so afraid of, and so respectful of Geer? All of us in his corps knew what a hard, cold man he was. But, VPW loved him. I can only imagine what Geer and LCM must have on each other.

Bill Gates.. ha.. instead.. it was a moron who ended up pushing packages around on a cart for a living.. Only in way world, must this make sense..

Oh yeah. They must be living on "needs" basis somewhere.. With this opulence, you'd think she'd slept with Bill Gates or something..

I dunno.. I'd chalk it up to "your ABS at work.." ya know, people living on a part time mcdonald's salary likely helped pay for this..

I do not post much so I can stay under the radar of the way gb.I will come out and say this much, in the area I am in they are pushing for a class and WILL DO OR SAY ANYTHING TO GET YOU IN IT. They use lots of love-bombing to be your friend only to get you in the class. You do not need friends like these. If you have a gut feeling and feel pressure to run, listen to your self. Run,don't walk out the door and do not return their calls just disapear. They are not your answer from GOD. If you are on the fence and a spouse or friend say they just don't seem for real or they are to nice. Listen to the people who love you and have your best intrests at heart not some people you just met wanting money and time from you. If you find your self talking to these new church people and telling them your life secrets and they bring it back up and say the class will heal you from this run. If they can not open the bible and help you then and there and tell you you need a class for deliverence, ask if the class is so great why can't you help me? If you have all the answers from this class share them with me. Jesus did not charge people for a class, he feed them and went to the peoples home. He did not require you to sign a commitment and pay money. If none of this works they will get other people (people you barley know) to call, stop by your home or work place. How ackward is that? This is like buying a car and you say no, so they bring the closer in.RUN fast. If your spouse or family or friends are talking you out of taking the class, they will want a meeting. They wont come alone they will bring a closer. Do not go to the meeting. Run. If you are single and you have a romantic intrest in a person but they wont date till you take the class. RUN.. I am in the way international only because I have a spouse who loves it. If I leave they will try and break up my wife and I. I have seen it done before. All this is so hard to believe. But is true, many people will swear to it. The way has no value on marriage just alligence to them.. If you have been talking to a member of the way and they want you to take a class RUN.. copenhagen

I go with my first guess.. but there are other possibilities. 1. Botox. Very likely. In rosie's case, the excess skin doesn't seem to have straightened out.. it just slid further down into what looks like a goiter.. 2. Menopause. Nothing like rosie and the donster getting "hormonal" or something.. 3. living off da way gravy train. Money fer nuttin, chicks fer free.. 4. Not aging "gracefully". Consider above comments.. enough guesses, and I'm sure I'll eventually get it..

Yep.. especially if one has a "problem spouse"..

true.. well, that does describe the climate at the board level.. "really sick AND wrong.." just have to unrenew your mind to see da greatness of it.. then there is yet another thing they have in common.. all three are "husbandless". For different reasons in da way of course.. unless R*mona remarried.. not sure.

Could it be.. all three were given a "test drive" by tricky vic?

well.. Got involved in the community.. then I purged all materials published by day way from my library.. once I consumed about 300 or so morning glory seeds. Not quite sure where that got me.. but one thing I haven't tried.. pick up a ouija board. Just can't bring myself to do it.. OK.. so what was the most bizarre thing YOU'VE done since leaving da way? I attended a unitarian universalist church a couple of times. Without once having the thought that they were possessed..

If you dont' mind me saying.. what they got was a "mean, lean fighting machine.." naw.. they aren't interested in saving marriages. or a marriage Not by any means.. anybody young enough, healthy enough to promote the pristine image.. they will bend over backwards.. all organizations tend to be self-serving, to some extent.. its a matter of survival I know.. but how much blood are they willing to have on their hands..

Sounds like da way jumped on the bandwagon of the Wal*Warts of the world.. That's how they can do "business" you know.. Now its more than the hidden costs of "capitalism".. its the hidden cost of religion.. so pathetic..

Oooh, oooh rosie, it gave us an "m".. and an "o".. ... r, e, d, r a m.... b....."

Have they considered using a Ouija board? There's even an online version.. http://www.witchboard.com Linder could try it. Supposed to be immune to spirits and all anyway..

Hmm. That just might suggest a lot of bizarre inbreeding or something.. Has anyone checked to see how many fingers the offspring has?

Hmm.. like the Boys from Brazil I guess.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boys_from_Brazil_(film) Same here..

What I can't understand is how someone could sink as low as to name their offspring after him..

So *Mr* (and my opinion as to that fact is rapidly vanishing) Linder.. why did you let your radio license lapse? have to ask permission of da bod before taking steps to get it renewed? friggin moron.. It wouldn't have cost even the price of a postage stamp.. where in the world has da ministry "stewardship" taken a turn..

OHH blinding light.. ohh light that lights. I cannot see.. look out for me..... hey.. at least no broken glass or air or drunk drivers here either.. In the liner for Don't Crush that Dwarf.. James William Guercio is credited as having produced "Shoes for Industry*. This is the same guy who later produced Chicago..

that's "if you push something hard enough, it WILL fall over". Teslicles first deviant to Fudds law, if I remember correctly..

How'd you guess? Its bad I know. But the slightest similarity or reference sets it off in my head..

we are.. marching, marching to Omaha..

Well I think that region coordinator is living in the land of Denial. How shocked he will be when he finds out, no one will want to take him in to leach off of them. TWI arrogance never fails to astound me. I was at TWI the same time Ms. Z was. I was under the dreaded Em*g8ne in the bookstore with Catcup where she called us the "scum of the crik." Welcome to TWI HQ! Actually, in some ways I didn't have it so bad because I had been around pretty much from the beginning and knew all of the "top" leadership, and had known them since they were in the corps and I was in high school. Most of the time, I lived off grounds. When I had to live on grounds at one point, I became great friends with a 3rd corps person who lived in a lovely large house by herself, and she asked me to hang out and I ended up living there. Oh, sure, I'd sometimes show my face at my HQ trailer, but I didn't really live there. I think, back then, life at HQ and its misery index was contingent upon who you knew. People close to VP, LCM, and DM could pretty much do as they pleased. There was a lot of partying that went on at HQ among the off grounds staff. A lot of it was from sheer boredom. When I was on staff at Emporia before that, the staff partying was amazing - but it was kept pretty quite. Done on off hours while they were in class. Once I got out of the Bookstore, I landed in Finance, now that was a great, fun department. A lot of just great people there. But, seeing close up the upper TWI rulers, and eventually realizing, they could care less about the people on the field they were supposed to be serving, it was an eye opener. I think the hypocrisy finally grated on me enough to leave. By '84 when I left, TWI had gone from an organization that served people to one that was served by the people. It was petty, intolerant, legalistic, gossipy, and could be down right cruel. When I look back on it, I think I lived off grounds and stayed away after work hours, purposely. Off grounds, you could have somewhat of a life without someone always looking over your shoulder. I still am a bit annoyed also when I get my SS summary and see those 5 blank years - grr. I would never recommend anyone going there now. Like Mz. Z, we were told it was a true honor to be there, we were really serving God. Hah! We were young and still somewhat idealistic. Now, I'd try and discourage anyone from going there. What could they possibly offer but bondage?

I've always liked the theory that each plague made a mockery of the Egyptians gods. There's a nice article on www.ancientdays.net, I put some of it here. There's more on the net. The Plagues As we consider the plagues, one can discern the purpose of the plagues. In the descriptions that follow, page references are made to the excellent study The Gods and Symbols of Ancient Egypt (Manfred Lurker, Thames and Hudson, 1980). Pre-plague: Snake (Exodus 7:9-12): When Moses came before pharaoh he carried a rod which became a snake. The court magicians' rods also became snakes, but Moses' rod ate theirs. The cobra or "urae" was a symbol of ruling power(108-109,125). The cobra motif is frequently found in Egyptian "art." On the forehead of pharaoh's crown there was a cobra ready to strike. On the throne of King Tut is a coiled cobra ready to strike. So, to overcome the cobra symbol is to overcome the power of pharaoh. Glass fish from the El Amarna Period used as a cosmetic vessel. Fish, although regarded as unclean, were also sacred animals. All the Nile fish died in the plague. Nile River (Exodus 7:14-25): The Nile River was changed to blood. This plague was against the god Hapi, spirit of the Nile in flood and "giver of life to all men." The annual innundation was called "the arrival of Hapi" (57). He was especially worshipped at Gebel Silsileh and Elephantine. The Nile water was the transformed life-blood of Osiris. The fact that the Nile turned to blood, which was abominable to Egyptians, was a direct affront to one of their chief gods. Although the fish-goddess was Hatmeyt, all the fish in the Nile River died! To illustrate the fact that the plagues of the Exodus were directed against the gods of Egypt, we note some Egyptian prayers to those gods. (The reference to "Nine Gods" apparently did not include pharaoh. It may be of interest that there were just nine plagues before Yahweh killed the sons of pharaoh.) Praise to thee, 0 Nile, that issueth from the earth and cometh to nourish Egypt . . . That watereth the meadows, he that Ra hath created to nourish all cattle. That giveth drink to the desert places, which are far from water . . . When the Nile floodeth, offering is made to thee, cattle are slaughtered for thee, a great oblation is made for thee . . . Offering is also made to every other god, even as is done for the Nile, with incense, oxen, cattle, and birds upon the flame . . . All ye men, extol the Nine Gods, and stand in awe of the might which his son, the Lord of All, hath displayed, even he that maketh green the Two Riverbanks. Thou art verdant, 0 Nile, thou art verdant. He that maketh man to live on this cattle, and his cattle on the meadow . . ." (Adolph Erman, The Ancient Egyptians, 1966, p. 146.) The Nile flooded every year, making the land fertile. If the Nile did not flood enough there was famine; if it flooded too much there was famine. The Nile was the lifeblood of Egypt, and thus it became one of their gods. Heathen gods often have some connection with the economics of daily life. Frogs (Exodus 8:1-15): The land was filled with them so that they became objects of loathing. The frog-headed goddess, Hekt (52, 62), played a part in "creation." Hers was one of the oldest fertility cults in Egypt. But she could not control the fertility of a these frogs! Through this plague they became a stench to the Egyptians. Lice (Exodus 8:16-19): At present there is no known link between this plague and a god of the Egyptian pantheon. However, the Egyptian magicians, unable to duplicate this plague, attribute it to "the finger of God" (Exodus 8:19), and they withdraw. Underside of a heart scarab from the New Kingdom. It was laid on the heart of a mummy to ensure favorable testimony at the Judgment. Flies, or Beetles ("insects" -- Exodus 20 - 32): Although it is not clear which insect the Hebrew word 'arob refers to, this plague may have been against Khephera(74), a scarab-headed (104) god regarded as a manifestation of Atum or Ra. It was supposed to be god of the resurrection, perhaps because the dung ball it rolled around, and in which it laid its egg, produced a "new creation." Priests wore scarabs as charms. Or It may have been against the fly-god. One sorcerer in the New Kingdom threatened, "I will enter your body as a fly and see your body from the inside." As a symbol of bravery, soldiers who had proven themselves were decorated with the golden fly (52). Murrain, or Anthrax (Exodus 9:1-7): This judgment was against the bull god (revered as early as the Archaic Period (35), and the sacred cattle of Hathor, the cow-headed love goddess. It was a special reproach to pharaoh who worshipped Hathor. Hathor, whose name means "house of Horus," was sacred as early as the Old Kingdom (41, 58). Other gods associated with cattle were Ptah and Amon. Great cemeteries of embalmed cattle have been excavated. The symbol of the bull was the symbol of pharaoh himself. In the "Hymn to Amon," it is difficult to distinguish the Pharaoh from the bull. The title is: "Adoration of Amunre (Amon-Ra), Bull of Heliopolus, chiefest of all gods, the good god, the beloved, who giveth life to all that is warm, and to every good herd." Praise be to thee, Amunre, Lord of Karnak, who presideth in Thebes. Bull of his Mother, the first on his field! Wide of stride, first in Upper Egypt. . . . Greatest of heaven, eldest of earth, lord of what existeth, who abideth in all things. Unique in his nature among the gods, goodly bull of the Nine Gods, chiefest of all gods. Lord of Truth, father of the gods, who maketh mankind, and createth beast. (Erman, p. 283.) Boils (Exodus 9:8-12): Against the god of healing, Im-Hotep (69), an outstanding nobleman of the Old Kingdom. Although not actually deified until later than the time of the Exodus, he was no doubt revered at this time. But he could do nothing to help the Egyptians. The goddess Sekhmet was also known for her healing ability (106). Hail (Exodus 9:13-15): The sky goddess Nut was "the mother of the sun-god Ra, whom she swallowed in the evening and gave birth to again in the morning" (90). She was especially culpable in this plague in that she was supposed to protect the land from destructions which came down from heaven. Exodus 9:31 mentions that the flax and barley were hit. Destruction of the flax was trying because it was used to wrap mummies and to make clothes. Grasshoppers, or Locusts (Exodus 10:1-20): The locust-headed god was Senehem. During the plague, the locusts were so thick that the "eye of the earth" was darkened (Exodus 10:5). One of the epithets of the sun-god Ra was "the eye of Ra." By causing darkness while the sun was shining, Ra was discredited. Darkness (Exodus 10:21-27): One of the greatest gods of Egypt, next to the pharaoh, was the sun (65, 100, 118). The sun-god Amon-Ra was the principle deity of the pantheon. He made all growth possible. Pharaoh called himself "son of the sun." With three days of darkness, the principle deity was scorned. One of many hymns to the sun may help us feel their devotion to this deity: Beautiful is thine appearing in the horizon of heaven, thou living sun, the first who lived. Thou risest in the eastern horizon, and fillest every land with thy beauty. Thou art beautiful and great, and glistenest, and art high above every land. Thy rays, they encompass the lands, so far as all that thou hast created. Thou art Ra, and thou reachest unto their end and subduest them for thy dear son [the Pharaoh]. Thou art afar, yet are thy rays upon the earth . . . etc., ad nauseum. (Erman, p. 289.) In all the above, many other gods could have been named which were denigrated by the various plagues. But this sampling demonstrates that Yahweh (YHVH) openly and violently, through his servants, put every one of them to shame. Statue of Amon with crown of sun disk and plumes. He was the supreme state god at the time of the Exodus, and as Amon-Ra was identified with the sun-god. Pharaoh (Exodus 11-12): The last plague was not only against the supreme god of Egypt, Pharaoh himself, but also against the future pharaoh, his son, the very next god (Horus) of Egypt. He was to die on the same level as animals (not as a god), for the prophecy was that the firstborn of man and cattle would die. Hymns of worship to many pharaohs have been found. Here is one to Rameses II: The good god, the strong one, whom men praise, the lord, in whom men make their boast; who protecteth his soldiers, who maketh his boundaries on earth as he will. . . . (Erman, p. 258.) Concerning the divinity of the pharaohs, William Edgerton notes: As for the organization and powers of the government, everyone knows that the Pharaoh was an absolute monarch and that his authority rested theoretically on his supposed divinity. He is constantly called"the good god." One of his most frequent titles designates him as the son of the sun-god Ra, and we know that his claim of divine parentage was not a mere figure of speech; it was meant to be taken literally. Theoretically, of course, the Pharaoh's right-to-rule rested on his divinity. He was begotten by the sun-god Amon-Ra, who took the form of the previous king for this purpose, and Amon-Ra with the enthusiastic approval of the other gods placed him on the throne and decreed a long and brilliant reign for him. No doubt those theological fictions helped to strengthen the Pharaoh's position. But the really solid basis of his power was his control of the machinery of government, including the army and police. (Edgerton, Journal of Near Eastern Studies: 6, 1967, pp. 153-4.) A great majority of the historical monuments were intended as official propaganda with the purpose of transmitting to posterity a "correct" impression of the glory and power of the pharaohs. Crises of revolution and that type of inner strife so common in the Orient, as well as military defeats in foreign wars, were either passed over completely or were interpreted so that the monuments conveyed impressions much distorted and unduly colored to the credit of the Egyptians. (Steindorff and Seele, When Egypt Ruled the East, p. 6, our emphasis.) The above is the reason there is no Egyptian record of the Exodus. The Egyptians simply would not record it because it was such a calamity. That may be true. However, we think evidence will yet be discovered for it. Although his mummy has been discovered, the temple of the man who was likely the Pharaoh of the Exodus, Amenhotep II, has never been found. If it is ever found and opened it may contain evidence of the plagues or the Exodus. In Exodus 4:22-23 God told the Egyptians, "Israel is my son, my first-born. Let him go! If not, I will slay thy first-born!" Then in Exodus 11:5-7 and 12:29 we we that the last plague was against the first-born. As if losing the future pharaoh was not enough, even the god of storms, Baal-Zephon, could not help the army which was pursuing Israel into the desert. In plain view of his temple, the whole army of Pharaoh was destroyed (Ex 14:2,9). Baal of Syria was equated by the Egyptians with their god Seth (19, 109). And the cruel sea was believed to be a manifestation of Seth. Yahweh's Purpose in the Plagues The first reason for the final plague was that the Egyptians may know that Yahweh is God! (Exodus 7:5; 8:10; 9:14-16,27; 10:16; 14:4.) The Lord is gracious in that He says over and over that He is doing this for the Egyptians that they might know He is the Lord. In fact, among the Egyptians, those who exercised faith were saved (Exodus 9:20-21; 12:38). Just as we today have an incentive to believe in Christ because of His miracles (John 20:31), so the Egyptians had opportunity to believe because of the plagues. The second reason for the plagues was that Israel might know Yahweh, their God, is The God and that there is no other (Exodus 10:1-2; 11:7; 14:31; Deuteronomy 4:32-35, Psalms 135:5-10). Some of the Israelites seem to have lost faith in Jehovah during their servitude. Possibly they were impressed with Egypt's gods since they seemed to be helping the Egyptians. But now Israel was to see evidence of Yahweh's absolute sovereignty and superiority over all the gods of Egypt. In fact, in Exodus 10:2 (NASB) we read that the Lord mocked the Egyptian gods. Why didn't pharaoh believe? Why should he? He was a god! If he believed, he would lose his "divinity." But God hardened his heart. Why? Because, if he had repented and let Israel go after the first plague, all the gods of Egypt would have retained their greatness in the eyes of the Egyptians and of Israel. People had to suffer to demonstrate that all gods other than Yahweh were nothing. Jethro summed it up well when he later said, "Now I know that Yahweh is greater than all gods: for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly He was above them!" (Exodus 18:11) Necessary in the plan for Israel's salvation was that they should do a simple, visible act. That was to take a lamb, kill it, and put some of its blood on the doorpost of their dwelling. Egyptian symbolism is interesting even in this act, for a door was a symbol of both entry and defense (47). And gates played a special role in the journey of the deceased through the nether world. For Israel, putting blood on the doorposts indicated that something done in one's heart is not enough. They had to act out their faith. Pharaoh could have saved his first-born if he had done that. But it would have destroyed the Egyptian system. In doing so, he would have acknowledged Yahweh as God. Furthermore, sheep were an abomination to the Egyptians. Yahweh's plan of salvation for Israel was not only to put down the gods of Egypt. God was calling out a people for Himself. This was His greater and higher purpose. For Israel to be a special people to the Lord they had to break with the associations they had in Egypt. They had to see that: He is over all gods (I John 3:8; John 12:31-33); that the lamb was slain and blood brought deliverance (John 1:29; Acts 20:28; Ephesians 1:7; I Peter 1:18-20; Revelations 5:9); this is family oriented salvation (Exodus 12:3,4,26). A final thought -- Jesus (Yeshua, Hebrew, means "salvation") instituted the New Covenant as a Passover meal. Today, the family of faith partakes of this meal, a sign of deliverance (Moshiach, Hebrew, means "deliverer") from the bondage of Egypt and from their gods (Luke 22:1-20). Jeremiah and Ezekiel both prophesied a new covenant which would include not only outward signs, but renewed hearts and minds. Anyone today can enter this New Covenant through acknowledging Jesus Christ (Yeshua Ha Moshiach) as their Lord and Savior. I think the last couple of paragraphs sum it up, the whys and wherefores of it. But, your mileage and interpretation may vary.

OMG - just years of drama. Does it ever stop? I just can't imagine living my life like that, letters, who was right, who was wrong, betrayal, intrigue. You know what JAL and others? No one cares about these tiny little self-destructive, drama school sects. Enough, grow up already.