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I really appreciate those replies! It's the PTSD I am still recovering from (relating to twi and also other traumatic experiences) that keeps my nervous system on high alert at times... But am doing better and not so afraid of triggering; I may trigger but can handle it better now. It WOULD be great to connect w/ one friend to begin with. One male leader in particular I shared a lot of confidences re: marital and personal struggles with, and am not ready to connect w/ him. I did extend an invite to the old friend, and hope to get together via zoom or phone :-) Gotta practice my deep breathing, and take what feels like a plunge; that's what trauma recovering is like tho. Cheers!

Hi Annio… …what a courageous and honest post !!! …somehow I missed this thread - so I just wanted to add my 2 cents now… You got me thinking about a few of ways that a double standard played out in TWI. A double standard is a set of principles that applies differently and usually more rigorously to one group of people than to another group. One aspect of the double standard in TWI is the misogynistic tendencies as you mentioned. In the bigger picture as we all know, this is something not just confined to TWI – but at least in the outside world there have been some brave survivors coming forth and things like the me too movement to raise awareness and empathy and to advocate changes to laws and policies. I don’t ever see that happening in TWI. Another aspect of TWI’s double standard that you and others have touched upon is the role that gender plays in determining one’s “status” within the group and how others should relate to them. Again this is not something peculiar to TWI… “Some believe that differences in the way men and women are perceived and treated is a function of social norms, thus indicating a double standard. One claim is that a double standard exists in society's judgment of women's and men's sexual conduct. Research has found that casual sexual activity is regarded as more acceptable for men than for women” from Wikipedia - double standard And perhaps a third aspect of the double standard in TWI is a more general application of religious-grade hypocrisy – how cult leaders exercise control over followers…see Matthew 23 and II Peter 2 . Those passages lead me to believe maybe the problem isn’t always with a particular doctrine but rather how TWI puts it into practice – and even further, to what degree they enforce compliance. “Doctrine is a codification of beliefs or a body of teachings or instructions, taught principles or positions, as the essence of teachings in a given branch of knowledge or in a belief system. Practice is the actual application or use of an idea, belief, or method, as opposed to theories relating to it.” From Quora - what is the difference between doctrine and practice In my opinion there’s one big thing that sets apart an abusive religious cult like TWI from other groups. It’s not really about the sixteen thousandth teaching of “You Are Righteous Now” - although I do tend to think some teachings like that can squelch one’s conscience when genuine repentance might be a more appropriate topic. The telltale signs of an abusive and controlling cult are the methods and tactics they employ to instill and reinforce certain ideas and attitudes. I don’t believe the average Way-believer who has never seen anything more than the local fellowship, can really “appreciate” the intense indoctrination process of the way corps program. I thought it was going to be a college-level education in the Bible and shepherding the flock - you know, maybe along the lines of a seminary only much better cuz it was all based on "The Word" - - and I've even heard some corps refer to it as something like the school of the prophets mentioned in the Old Testament I Samuel 19 II Kings 2 and II Kings 4 (some translations refer to them as the school of the prophets, a group of prophets, the company of prophets, or sons of the prophets ) ... But it was more along the lines of a glorified PFAL catechism – with the student body being corralled to think in terms of predetermined questions and answers – - what does it say in PFAL about this or that? we were drilled to know all the material of PFAL frontwards and backwards...we were often randomly called upon to give 5 minute teachings during one of the three meals in the dining room - and then we were critiqued right on the spot afterward; fyi - the teachings that quoted verbatim - with very little deviation - from one of the PFAL books received the highest praise and little or no criticism - I $hit you not! Among other things what really “helped me absorb” this "doctrine" was the sleep deprivation, the work program (cheap labor - often busy-work and usually a big time-waster), the occasional tongue-lashing , being singled out for public ridicule over some minor infraction - after all details are important to God - - and the ever popular threat to throw your a$$ out the door if you didn’t comply with some directive. What is the point of all that? I’ll tell you - in case you didn’t click on the above link to Matthew 23 – I’ll quote verse 15 of it here “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.” ....I think ideally the way corps program was designed to make little clones of wierwille. On a side note – if I felt compelled to address doctrine - the biggest issue I have with TWI’s fundamentalist point of view is that it is more than just your typical strict literal interpretation of the Bible (and brushing aside any dubious teachings like the 4 crucified, the unforgiveable sin = being born again of the wrong seed, etc.) TWI’s brand of fundamentalism is also infused with magical thinking which is the belief that unrelated events are causally connected despite the absence of any plausible causal link between them, particularly as a result of supernatural effects – “the law of believing” comes to mind. Another thing you mentioned Annio, at the end of your post really resonated with me. You reflected on the good stuff you got out of your TWI experience. I think that’s a healthy way to deal with life. To NOT paint everything in broad strokes - but to think more deeply about experiences - to learn from mistakes and failures and to cherish any wins. I met my wife in TWI – besides meeting a lot of good people - and that’s where I first learned to enjoy reading the Bible. It makes me think of the duality of life – which is made up of so many different and sometimes opposite elements. That’s reality. One of the many reasons why life in the way corps was often an uphill battle for me was the heavy-handed pressure from top leadership to ignore or even deny reality. I was never salaried by TWI – so my wife and I worked regular jobs ( besides all the responsibilities we had of running a branch or area, running classes and coordinating advances, witnessing, under-shepherding, getting teachings together, counseling, visiting Twigs all over town…and in different towns…with a kid in tow ) and we made our money stretch a long way for the cost of living…sometimes coming up short since we had it drummed into our heads as corps that abundant sharing was the highest priority when budgeting finances. Over the course of some 34 years since I left TWI, I’ve learned that acceptance of reality is a lot easier than a denial of reality. Back in the day, I wasted more time and energy spinning my wheels listening to teachings on believing, making positive affirmations, conjuring up believing images of victory to try and make something happen. I’m not saying be a pushover in life. Acceptance takes some guts to acknowledge what I cannot change or what is beyond my control - but also to step up to the plate when I can do something that’s within my power. Acceptance is how we look at ourselves and others. And rather than have hostility or fear toward someone who is different from me – though I sometimes falter at that – I think it’s better to be tolerant – even open and honest to find common ground – and yes, I still have a long way to go on that one too. Acceptance is being at peace with my own imperfections and failures and not beating myself up every time I fail or disappoint myself. I think what goes along with that is to be thankful for the ordinary things in life – I’ve got a roof over my head, I have food in the pantry, I have a family and friends who accept me as I am - warts and all. I think that stuff keeps me grounded. *** bonus feature on the duality of life: Skyrider started a thread a while back - cult survivors and the duality of life ***

VPW said it. That settles it. I don't believe it.

Welcome to GSC, PAA. The love the Way showed to me was the linchpin that convinced me I had found nirvana. I was going through a very rough time in my life, when a complete stranger sat next to me at a cafe, and began talking to me. He was very kind and understanding to me. He invited me to a fellowship at his home, but Christmas break was just beginning at college, and I told him I would be going home for a month. He assured me he would contact me after the holidays were over, which he did. All (twig leafs, not sure that is the lingo today,) were very loving to me, and without a doubt, pulled me from the dark place I was in. Of course, that alone hooked me, and it was “full speed ahead,” from then on. I was willing to take all the classes they offered and joined all the programs they asked me to. However, as time goes on, you are expected to no longer think for yourself, and especially not ask for any “clarification” of anything they teach. The Way International believes they have “the word of God, like it has never been taught since the first century.” They may not state it those exact words today, but believe God gave Victor Wierwille the “right dividing of the word of God.” VPWs interpretation is the only valid understanding of God’s word. That is why they will not allow anyone to question their teachings. They talk about how the corruption had been cleaned up, but let me assure you, if anyone questioned the corruption as it was going on, they were “marked and avoided”, which means they were shunned. There is absolutely no room in the way to question a belief, or question the actions of any leader. If you do, you will be kicked out, as dissention is unacceptable at any and all levels of Way leadership. It does seem out of place that your love interest is discussing marriage and children with you, at this stage of your indoctrination into the Way. It maybe they have stooped to that level deception. Or, unless, as someone else suggested, she is planning an escape herself. If that is the case, you will be very important to her mentally and emotionally, as the guilt she will bear, will be overwhelming. Welcome to the GSC, and know you have everyones understanding.

Hey, an acknowledgment that all was not well. It still is not well; "cleaning it up and it's way better now" sounds like denial of what's happened and happening. There's a lot of crises going on at the moment. Perhaps you and Friend can volunteer at a local Foodbank, or pandemic helpcentre, or join a neighbourhood help group to assist the housebound, those who aren't allowed out, those who don't have money, etc. Offer to help at some local church in its outreach to these groups. Yes - volunteer. At something that is not a TWI-event. What does Friend think about that? Ask what Friend's parents are doing to help their community - you don't say if they live in the same area and I sense they may live at HQ or close to it. (If you live near each other, maybe you can ask them to join you at the Foodbank/debt counselling center/collection of prescriptions etc etc. I can see that going down well, LOL.) Ask what TWI is doing to help others. Choose your crisis. What - and where - are they doing things to help alleviate suffering from that crisis? If the answer is still "We teach people The Word," well, you know that words and actions that don't match are not Godly. It's all talk, talk, talk. No walk, walk, walk. I can only say that my tiny church puts its actions where its mouth is. Food parcels for those with too little money to look after themselves and their families; cooking meals to deliver to housebound; visiting; finding clothes or blankets or furniture; caring phone calls to those who can't be visited; comforting the bereaved and "being there" for those who are developing mental health issues - and so on - for those who have little else in their lives and nowhere to turn to. Individuals help as wider community volunteers, at refuges, foodbanks, marshalling at mass vaccination centers, all sorts. And all where we're in lockdown and not allowed to visit unless essential and we have to keep 6 or 8 feet apart. Nobody tries "preaching the gospel," quoting Bible verses, or urging to come to church; but actions have won people and the church is growing! The church is busier than ever - and normal activities continue as best as possible, with Zoom church, Zoom kids' club, Zoom youth club, Zoom coffee mornings, etc etc. Now. What is TWI doing? What are Friend's parents doing? What is HQ doing?

You know, Allan, that any "good stuff" that they taught, was because it was pinched from genuine God-loving Christians. Besides that, VPW had "itching ears" and grabbed other bits and pieces from get-rich-quick merchants, and from "spiritualists" and mediums. All jumbled up together to become their version of Christianity. And whatever TWI teaches, whether originally Godly or not, is corrupted by filthy and abusive practices.

Thanks for your personal courage in sharing those morally depraved and physically degrading incidents you experienced first hand. I BELIEVE YOU! The after effects linger, now some 40+ years! Imagine what damage is being done by the current wierwillean cults like Frontczak and the remnants of Victor Barnard’s River Road Fellowship, “Rev” Charlie “Mr. Bless Patrol” Quillen, frontczak’s former boss, in IL, “Rev” Chris Geer and Word Promotions, now down in NC somewhere, and “Rev” Super —classified-double-secret-probation Kung fu agent, Doug MacMullan, at his family farm in MS, where V2P2 and poppa JP carry on the dictor paul legends and good ole daze. YOUR COURAGE and honesty will help future victims Annio, as well as prevent future victims as women all around the world agree, “TIME’S UP!”. There is no statute of limitations on truth! Thank you again for your bravery and honesty, Annio!....................peace.