Ham

even Capone could have an official stance. "Our mission: feed the poor and unemployed doughnuts and coffee." He didn't have an official stance on Heroin, robbery and general mayhem, however. Never taught kiddies in his doughnut shops to rob and stab their neighbors.. some of us here helped pass out the coffee and doughnuts.. on our own dime.

some people think you can separate doctrine and practice. I would suggest it's not really so easy. It's kinda like "we've got standards, but we really don't". "just don't touch da bible.." "don't you DARE touch MY righteousness.. da bible tells me so.." sorry fella.. I'm not the one rubbing it in horse manure.. should have been my answer at the time..

and that is the REAL offshoot "problem". they have way too much "invested".. too many years in a deadbeat organization.. too many hours giving it free labor, adoring it's teachings.. lavishing it's leadership with praise.. giving financially.. abandoning real callings, and higher education for a madman's dream.. it all has to mean "something" ya know.. where's the "payoff"? it's easy enough to spell out.. we were H. A. D. "but naw.. it's gotta mean something.. we got da word, didn't we?" what if everything you came to believe is WRONG? "naw, can't be it. let's tap into another ministry, another pfal clone.. another group.."

*dons squirrel swami hat* I Predict.. there's gonna be trouble somewhere in the middle east next year.. some tourist will become lost in downtown Toledo.. some second or even first rate religious huckster will get caught with his pants down.. and The pope will NOT invade the united states in his new aircraft carrier.

Yeah.. nothing like being "there".. nothing like watching a barely eighteen year old lady being brow beaten by a limb leader to "accept the assignment".. the forty or fifty year old "creep" in twig had lotsa money.. I think half of the "problem" here.. if you didn't see it, it's rather hard to believe.. Where's your "faith" brotha?

I've made a few "differences".. I just don't know if they were "enough"..

See.. in a very SHORT time.. we'll all go back to what the eternal beings that we are.. what difference did you make? maybe that's the real big question..

A very good friend.. tells me.. the ONLY thing the kaballah.. or bible.. or torah.. or whatever.. authorizes anybody to do.. isn't raising the dead.. levitation.. miracles.. only acts of kindness.. and that's it.. that's all that's allowed.. in "real life" here.. that really is what I TRY to live by..

not really. That's not the real point here. Strange as it sounds.. this is one of the few places in the world that I think people can actually understand me.

If you really want to know.. I was a kid, a young kid.. no parents, no real refuge, no real place to go. what are you gonna do, bite the hand that feeds you? I did have an aunt and uncle. They had unsuccessfully attempted to have their kid deprogrammed who was in der vey. That kinda trashed any chance of any kind of relationship with remaining relations.

Like when I saw a barely eighteen year old lady being counselled by the limb guy to just "get laid" and "get over it" who happened to be in a twi sanctioned training program.. just had a simple question about a creep in twig that wouldn't keep his hands off.. several of us could not avoid hearing this little counselling session through two solid oak doors.. Or like other guys who were conditioned to abuse their wives with the right cue from the limb leader at the time.. oh, they were in the same program. like.. the advice given to parents to take their kid out in the wilderness where no one can hear the screams as they beat the *(&^ out of him or her.. or the limb guy who publically boasted that he had previously given some "cop out" the same advice.. seventy or so of us must be wrong. No documentation there.. or.. the poor women who reported abuse and got counsel like "he's just distracted. Maybe he needs more sex.." Or the women counselled to get abortions. Can't dissapoint gawd, and fail the "training".. I know one couple who refused.. they were labelled scum of the earth. I think her parents caught them when they were thrown out before they hit the ground.. That's all I can remember, at the time.. naw, it wasn't twi. No no. It was just their doctrine, their training programs, their "leaders". Don't wanna blame a has been, devilish, destructive, arrogant "we have da answers" ministry now, do we?

! Interesting. Perhaps somebody figured a way to make it back from lighbearers without putting together a class.. "Sowy chief, the best we could do was to just cast out a legion of spurts.." "oh, here's the tape" reminds me another 'stowry" I've heard.. about some guy who supposedly raised his pig from the dead on the way to market, so as to be able to sell said pig for plane fare to the roa.. the guy involved apparently sounded pretty convincing..

hmm. Lethal force.. "really your honor, I hadda. She was going to murder my credit.." I really have met people with this kind of mentality..

what I find interesting.. I have the name and details of the guy who practically ran a "how to abuse your wife in der vey while looking religious in six easy lessons" apprenticeship program, and I get no reply from mr. "fair and balanced" here.. maybe I'm on ignore..

It was more than "assumed".. it was enforced. I saw three "men(?)" bully, threaten and intimidate their wives into silence. What are they gonna do? Leave? Just walk fifteen miles to town, and catch a bus? Oh.. the one guy is in the phone book.. I won't say his name here. But I wonder how he'd feel with a question about this twenty some years later.. I'd say you probably know him. Or who he is. "duhhhh, we were just following orders.." interesting how the past can return to bite someone in the rear.. apparently he can't "believe" big enough to bury it so deep to keep the "devil" from digging it up.. personally, I don't have the inclination. He's probably miserable enough living with himself as it is.

What I wonder is, what did "they" do to him? He believed the same bible, at least once.. just a "passionate for the truth" as j.l., j.s. and gang ever was.. did they push him over the edge?

This less than half an excuse of a "man" DIRECTED others to ABUSE their wives. He was "leadership". He did this, in his CAPACITY as "leadership". This was in 1975, before mean boy loy got the reins.. the "man".. was trained by vic, PERSONALLY. Early early corps..

So what about a little "stowry".. imagine sitting in a "LEADER'S" meeting. The bigwig limb guy, his cronies (branch coordinators) and their wives.. it was a little planning session. Nothing formal. One of the wives asks a question.. with a genuine concern.. she is ignored. Another one asks.. in unison, the three "men" say.. "WOMAN, SHUT the F*** UP!" "did I hear you right? and another round on cue, "WOMAN, SHUT the F*** UP!" and simultaneously, they throw burning cigarettes into the wives faces and hair.. I witnessed this, first hand. Same limb guy who ran the family and sex class, on more than one ocassion.. Yeah.. same guy could stand at the platform and say how he loved his wife.. and others oughter do the same with their wives.. ended up in yet another woman's bed.. and divorced.

ah yes. Bertrand Russel.. the man who found a hole in reality.. George, I actually admire the guy..

[ hey, I'll take one, or two.. :)

Well.. anything I have is free for the asking.. no ulterior motives or anything.. not that one would REALLY want what I have to offer.. but.. the whole point of this existence.. there is always the possibility that one is WRONG.. I'd rather refund in terms of that which I did not charge.. :)

hehheh. I forget.. which one was it.. the red one, you wake up, the blue one.. you find out da innner secrets.. lost track of all these colors.. I'm gonna try an experiment. Let's see if I can draw jl, js, etc, into MY "trip".. heheh. It worked for Kesey, at least once or twice..

I really really think he wanted to bring some legitimacy to the organization.. I don't know what jl and js think.. but wouldn't this character have the same care for the organization? Maybe it did't fit the "way" mold..