Ham

Groucho, I feel like we're telling people that Santa Claus isn't real anymore.. but t's more like they are seeing it for themselves. Something has to die for something to live.

So.. if it doesn't work, re-invent it. Prophecies fail? Don't come to pass? Simply re-invent it. Turn it into "conditional prophecy", or some such nonsense.. "well, you WOULDA felt like dirt if I didn't let you have it with this little gem.." If you are losing a ball game, the easy way out would be to simply change the rules. Then write a book. 101 ways to examine prophecy.

Yep.. I thought as much. I guess everybody else is expendable. No average Joes anymore. It makes sense though. They seem to be trying to get their fangs into the upper level of society. Trying to get back some prestige, some influence.. some respect. Just salting the mine. I don't think they are getting many converts though. But like the little boy trying to sell the pencil for a million dollars, he said "well, if I could just sell ONE.."

could have fooled me. What did she speak? Spiders and such, protecting the "ministry" from the evils of J.L.'s then wife? What I'd like to see, is the files of other "prophecies" and dreams they have stored away. I think this little convenient bit of information is the tip of quite a large iceberg. I wonder if the office shredders are working overtime.

True. But probably for the same reason I wouldn't, I've NEVER, EVER EVER seen it work, at least in der vey or offshoots. Did it happen to you? I'm not entirely impressed. I don't know if it's true or not, but I read a story about a guy who wanted to be an investor. Started with about 2000 names and addresses. He makes a prediction, says "IBM stock will rise" and sends to half, sends "IBM stock will fall" and sends it to the other half.. after eight predictions, he has fifteen who will sign away their fortunes to him to invest. Really, I think that is what we have here. I have heard the most mundane, plain WRONG "prophecies" .. "don't worry, mah son.." sheesh, I wasn't worried about anything at the time.. I've been "ministered" to for pain that wasn't there.. With all that said, I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm just saying, I've never seen it work. As far as K.G. being "right on the money" with J.L., I think she was simply telling him what he wanted to hear.

True. Excitement only goes so far on its own. I remember trying to say how exciting it was, and people looked at me like I was from Mars. Well, ex-70's, you answer the question how I can sell more modern, digital mouse traps. Breed more mice.. I think the second method to sell, if you can't find or make a need: salt the mine. right- get as many successful, influentual people on your team as you possibly can. Sure- they're getting "results". Making $100,000 + a year.. nice house, nice car.. Just ignore the fact that they spent four years in college.. four or more years in graduate work, etc.

I think I liked the rain least. Here we were, in Ohio farmland, at the time of the year it was SUPPOSED to rain. I remember wading through three feet of mud (or more) thinking, "what have I done to deserve this"

"All nine all the time" "an unbalanced state, characterized by casting out devils that are not there, and always getting your favorite parking spot in front of Walmart"

Unreasonable fears, on the other hand, desperately afraid that if you march barely out of step that the devil is gonna cream you, seeing spirits waiting for you under every rock- I think the person needs help beyond what a class on the bible has to offer. That says it all.. :)

"Fear is sand in the machinery of life" seems to be such a convenient catch-phrase. So compact, and supposedly so well thought through. But generally, I think it is an effect, not a cause. There may be a statistical correlation between fear and disastrous results in life, but correlation does not necessarily prove causation.

"research" 1. "a glassy-eyed, brain numbing activity, cutting bits and pieces from old books and magazine articles." 2. "a method to rubber stamp one's position. Often accomplished by citing sources that do not, and never did exist" "Mark". 1. The gospel writer, who wrote a treatise FOR our LEARNING. 2. To use a felt tip pen to mark.. 3. Not to be used with the words "and avoid", in the same sentence, since the lawsuits.

As sad as it is, these folks make the perfect "poster child" for the effects of momentus and personal prophecy. Worse yet, they can't see it. Practically everybody else in the world finds something suspicious about this style of a glassy-eyed witch of Endor kind of shortcut to a supposed godly lifestyle of "biblical proportions". And they don't see it for what it is. So gullible. So power hungry- like their "father"- looking for something they "don't have to back down on".

Well, that's the easy way to say it but he also claimed scientific control, mathematical and scientific precision. Not to mention convincing.. I didn't need 36 hours of a class to save me from raw ignorance just because I didn't know the difference between throroughly and throughly. Now I find there really wasn't a difference anyway.

The first session of the class "my people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge" I question vic's "knowledge of da bible" as being the precise meaning of this.. But what is this but another imaginary problem? "well, I'd a better learn what da man is saying so I don't get destroyed..." I wasn't "destroyed" the day before, what made that day any different? I think vic was far more salesman than "man of the cloth" so to speak..

Yeah. I can see how something like might have a few benefits, not to an individual, but a COMPANY. Find out who's weak. Destructive testing though, in my opinion. Significant that the whole board is/has been involved with spiders and dreams and such. Maybe they are a product of their momentus experience after all.

That answers many, many questions. Especially the one, "why are they sooooo screwed up.."

"minister?" Interesting the fella doesn't mention where he got ordained, or what schools or qualifications. Person would have to have some REAL qualifications before I let them work on MY head with a pickaxe..

I wonder if they view momentus as some kind of "advanced class" in their curriculum. Only for da faithful, those who are "mature" enough to have come to the realization that they owe their very lives to da ministry.. I wonder what color of a name tag you get in the process. When I hear the words "mature" or "ready", I get this sick feeling. Would it be an honest assessment to state that all of the upper hierarchy in CES are momentus "grads"?

Thanks for the compliment, I think... Some of my "humor" has been so warped by vey speak, this is the only place on the planet that I can get a laugh at times.. My best friend here is only beginning to understand how getting the front parking spot at Walmart can be equated with spirituality..

I wonder if they view momentus as some kind of "advanced class" in their curriculum. Only for da faithful, those who are "mature" enough to have come to the realization that they owe their very lives to da ministry.. I wonder what color of a name tag you get in the process. When I hear the words "mature" or "ready", I get this sick feeling. Would it be an honest assessment to state that all of the upper hierarchy in CES are momentus "grads"? whoops.. wrong thread..

So, there I was, six months later.. "so mister, you know that feeling, you walk out and a car nearly hits you, the FEAR..."

"you could sit around home, studying the bible, but how would you like to grow ten years spiritually in one?" surrrrrre. "you NEED to go WOW.."

Been thinking about this for a while. Why were "they" successful in selling PFAL, other classes and seminars, etc..? I think largely because they were successful in selling the idea that you NEEDED it. "well, you know the feeling, you walk out in the street, almost get hit with a car, and the FEAR.." OK.. "well, do you think God wants you to live in fear? that he wants fear in your life?" well.. of course not "what would you give to get rid of fear.." they've practically got you.. Find (or make) a need, and then try to fill it. You have to have the customer identify with the product, then it's easy.. your pen or mine.. And I think it "worked", as long as you did not have "real" problems.

more public statements: Hurt STF?? what about PEOPLE? I think he meant what he said. I think he cares mainly for the survival of the organization.And still no real personal accountability. Still blames the devil- "the enemy has hurt STF via my failures" Sounds like J.L.'s demeanor toward us. "I'm right, buy my book. If you have a 'problem' with that, call me". Just another "morass of posturing".

Yeah, what he said.. Some "crap" I really need. I think it is typical of vey practices. Define a problem that you do not have, and then invent a cure that you don't need, or are better off without.