Ham

Yep. It's blood money.. some of us here find ourselves trying to dig ourselves out in our fifties..

Yeah.. and the big claim they make- "we have the BEST package" anyone has to offer.. When in fact, it's the SAME package. Same warmed over leftovers from vic's oven.. You'd think sixty year old leftovers wouldn't be very healthy to the normal digestive system.

"Feet Washing 101" only $149.95. A product of "over fifty years of biblical research"- You too can benefit from the cumulative years of our researcher's work and experiences. Included with the course: Proper implement (bucket) Tossed in with tuition, the "secret ingredients" (water, soap) and one properly qualified feet-washee. "Feet Washing 102" Learn the exciting and exactness of bringing the training of feet washing 101 to perfection, the proper use of the drying implement. Only an additional $149.95..

OMG Sushi.. :biglaugh: It's true though.. The local corps here couldn't figure it out, for TWO YEARS. Nobody came, nobody asked.. "hmm, must be somethin wrong with da PEOPLE..." They didn't have a clue.. I can't call the guy a bigwig exactly.. but a long time believer couple came up from headquarters, really nice people, and they had a few smarts beyond the bible.. People lined up by the DROVES to ask them a few questions.. The corpses STILL couldn't figure it out..

Good point Pond, I have to agree with you on this. And it seems any kind of of public scrutiny there (at home) opens an already aching, putrid sore, at least for some. These are people that have put themselves in God's place for many people.. I certainly would want to know what kind of people I was dealing with, what kind of qualifications a MINISTER brings to the table. A minister is supposed to be BLAMELESS, and not in vic's definition either. "we know da VERD" just doesn't cut it anymore, at least for me.. I thought that was one of the qualifications for "leadership" in the church, how well do you take care of your own.. After leaving der vey, I pretty much took "normal" people on face value.. give them the benefit of the doubt.. But these "ministers".. I almost feel like they are guilty until proven innocent.. just too much at stake.

I think it may be more likely a bribe to make campus life much oh so easier for a wayfer How else could they be included as a recognized student organization? Maybe it's one last ditch effort to bring the doctrine and practice of der vey to the next generation.. I wonder if the University of Toledo knows that it is "blood money"..

From their website, front page: http://www.truthortradition.com/ Good grief.. Not understood by most Christians.. really? Same old thing.. "we've got the inside skinny on this thing..." Funny how they leave this stuff on the front page of their "newspaper". Same old crap, same old manipulation. Don't tow the line? I'm sure they can come up with a "conditional" prophecy that will tell you what will happen if you don't stay in line.. more from http://www.truthortradition.com/ SAME OLD THING. If it doesn't happen, it isn't the "PROPHET's" fault, it's yours. The Vey tried this kind of thing long ago.. Then again, maybe it's not the same old thing.. I think it's worse.

Hope it doesn't weigh too much. I'll call two men and a truck.. :biglaugh:

what's a "hellover"?

Some of them were just plain NUTS. I saw froth come out of some of those guys.. Loy was about the worst. I think the "spiritual anger" thingy just gave some a good reason for practical insanity..

Probably VeyGB cracked down on em again.. I hope they saw what they have taught these kids.. they seem to have a rather obvious hardness, as far as abuse of others is concerned. "well, I'm blessed.. less jess get back to business as usual.." As a parent, I'd be ashamed.

What I wonder- did the University HAVE to accept it? I'd think if I was on the board, I would have had about the same sickening feeling about it as if the Church of Scientology contributed.. " ahem.. thank you, I think..."

I think that those who turn a blind eye to the plagiarism, abuse and worse, and slobber over old vics name with labels like "the teacher" and "the man of god" do. PFAL wasn't even his material, to begin with. I think he was a scam artist, a fraud, a huckster.. he sold us a stolen package that he claimed was his own work. Mixed with just enough poison to make us really sick: "we should come to the place that we realize we owe our VERY LIVES to the ministry that taught us the word.." The scam was SO good, it's what.. twenty some years after his death, and people STILL believe it.

Here's what can happen when the same thing is developed independantly by two parties.. People are STILL fighting to this day over the controversy, though history finally credited Newton AND Leibniz independant development of the calculus. Both Newton and Leibniz were damaged in the fight. It appears that Leibniz did indeed have access to some of Newton's material before publishing his findings.. Seems documentation and plagiarism have always been an important issue among educated people.. I can't see why religion should be an exception. My opinion- documentation and citing makes a produce BETTER, not worse. "I found it in an old document somewhere, can't remember what it was, can't find it since.." can hardly be a solid foundation to base one's faith. Questionable, at best, destructive, at the worst.

More than I REALLY wanted to know at the time..

heheheh. I wish I got a few palpatations via undersheparding.. heheh I remember some young thing saying something to the effect of.. "I just LOVED orgies, I must"ve been possessed..." OMG.. OK moderators, do your duty.. :biglaugh:

Yeah, on one hand, you can't disqualify the good some received, on the other hand, you can't deny the abuse others endured. I really wish all of this was easier.

I just wish the SOB didn't give us so many choices.. the little good he did seems so far buried in manure, from my vantage point..

Hey, its my thread, and off topic is allowed

According to the resident expert here, when the pineapple hits the pizza, it is "pizza" no longer

Roy, I can't, I think it is up to you, me too for my personal life. So many have bound themselves to the past. Seems some can't make a decision without thinking what ole doc wouldd have done. Some have anchored their spirituality in what "the teacher" had to say.. right or wrong. This is not an indictment of you, or of your spirituality.

Sure quiet in here.. hmmmm. "... and ham, only partly disgruntled, goes quietly off into the sunset, talking with himself as he goes.." They say talking to oneself is the first sign of something, only if I could remember.. :biglaugh:

I didn't know I was THAT ambiguous..

I think there is at least a LITTLE truth to this.. I've seen people chase their theological tails trying to stay convinced that the "teacher's" voice was indeed true. Doesn't seem to really take a person anywhere.

What I think worshipping da MOG means: Remaining convinced for YEARS that what he uttered is TRUTH, despite clear convincing evidence otherwise.. excusing his immorality, plagiarism and abuse as mere human traits, when flogging is not sufficient enough punishment, for others caught in the same kind of habits.. "god" can do no wrong.. that's about it. well, you asked!