Ham

Hmmm. A lot of those might make good display names here.. Naw, I think they use them in other kinds of forums..

I dunno.. I think anybody who would side with a half-bit grifter over EVERY high school, EVERY Seminary, EVERY institution of higher learning, a literal ARMY of lawyers and other legal types.. this kind of story belongs on a milk carton, or poster. "Don't join cults, this could happen to you".

Raf.. anybody that would side with a half-bit grifter over EVERY high school in the U.S., EVERY seminary, Purdue, Yale, Harvard, Georgetown, Indiana University, and EVERY other reputable institution of higher learning, not to mention a member of a Pulitzer nominated team :) I don't know what to say. Looks like the grifter did his job quite well. The cult mentality lives on, over twenty years after his death.

It may be beating a long dead equestrian type animal.. but here goes.. From Indiana University Writing Tutorial Services, http://www.indiana.edu/~wts/pamphlets/plagiarism.shtml Purdue resources: "The Owl", last full revision by Karl Stolley:http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/589/01/ No excuses for anybody coming out of Purdue- they offer a how to do it manual..How about Georgtown University? From Honor Council page, http://gervaseprograms.georgetown.edu/hc/plagiarism.html Anderson University, Anderson Indiana: English 1120 syllabus, http://www.anderson.edu/academics/engl/wri.../1120Hsyll.html Oh yes. Anderson is a Bible college.. I'd go on, and on, and on.. but I think Stanford, Georgetown, and at least one prominent BIBLE COLLEGE should be at least a LITTLE convincing. "anybody who is somebody" in the world gets this stuff about academic honesty.

Wordwolf- in the Companion Bible Bullinger said something to the effect ot "note the ambiguity of these kind of communications". Took me a few minutes to get it.. but Zedekiah's "prophecy" would have been "fulfilled" either way the battle turned out..

Well, nobody ever accused us of being Fox News

JL must be SOOOOOO happy, just wallowing in so many meetings, papers- like the old days. Skyrider, that sounds like a MOGGY in all his "glory"

Yeah, we all seem to be connected.. Socks.. I've seen some people desperately seeking the connection, only to abandon it in fear of loss of self.. I can't see how some people can go back to darkness.

I think the thread was as friendly as it was gonna get the first two pages.. he had his chance.

Well.. just because a Christian won't take you to court for stealing his work lock stock and barrel doesn't make it necessarily right. If it is public domain, "they" could just fire up the presses and have at it- legally- PROVIDING THEY CREDIT THE AUTHOR. Ah.. this little "detail" seems to elude "them".. What I see here- in vic and crews brazen copying of other BRETHREN's material- LESS respect than secular writers treat their colleague's labors. Well, it's just my brother, he won't care, it's for a good reason.. I thought we were supposed to be better.

I dunno.. I never saw vic jump over the barn..

"Call me" ptooie. Just something in me about not wanting to be subjected to every motivational technique known to the mind of man..

Calling JL would be like calling a telemarketer, asking about the quality of his/her products.. sheesh.

Yep.. I've called yahoos like this before.. "... well, ya know ham, there is a difference between big T Truth and little t truth.. we otter agree on the Big T, the debil would just LOVE for us to disagree on count of the little t.." "... well, it's not all that bad. you don't know the whole story; you don't work(?) day in and day out for the bestest ministry since Paul introduced sliced bread.." ".. surrrrrre, we've made a few 'mistakes'(??!!!!!)" Have to remember people "like this" can charm the paint off the hood of your car.. No way. Not on my own.. I've learned from the "best" too.. by experience. "Now that we got that little(?) problem taken care of, anything else I can do for you?" Won't get me in that corner again.. Oldies, you call him.. you can even reminisce about old waydays gone by..

You can tell he was "trained by the best".. Never engage in public debate. Ever see vic in a debate? Or loy? I remember Loy giving a guy the "bums rush" before he got two whole sentences out of his mouth. Try to get folks off on their own, put out the little fires everywhere around you. Don't call him, all you get is a blanket message "read my book".

I still think the nature of his letter, and the seriousness of the subject DEMAND public scrutiny and debate. Considering the long standing problems, it is obvious that controlled private little discussions have done little if anything. What's he afraid of? That somebody might hurt his feelings? Afraid of being embarrassed? Afraid of giving the Lord a black eye in public? Sorry, I think he's already done that with the LITTLE we know about. Maybe he doesn't have the faith in his package that he thinks he has. Perhaps deep down he feels it wouldn't survive five minutes of public scrutiny and REAL debate. Same for the some of the other yahoos running that place. I think they are afraid to see their "baby" exposed to the light of day.

I was thinking of something along those lines.. I'm suprised they haven't gone after Stiles/Kenyon society/Leonard Ministries to begin with. They'd sue King James for copyright on the bible if they could.. What amazes me about most of the posts here from "the other side"- is the "right dividing" of all of the legal issues about plagiarism- "well, it wasn't REALLY plagiarism. It was public domain, he had the right to do it, its not the same as academics, or publication, or etc, etc" "Look at ALL THE GOOD that came of it"- questionable to me at least.. Its hard to admit you've been taken by a charlatan, a fake- it was for me, anyway. "but the guy that sold me the bridge had good intentions.." Pretty embarrassing..

I agree Potato. But even theft aside.. It proves he was LAZY. Yes, lazy. No, he didn't work his *(&*%'s off night and day, year after year- Someone else did the work FOR him. In medical terms, this would make him a parasite, just wallowing in pre-packaged resources. This is the same guy that made corps work their buts off.. stole their labors as well. I don't think he was the "workman" he made himself out to be. Lazy. I find it despicable that he slapped der vey's copyright on it.. on at the very least, PUBLIC DOMAIN material. It shows that academically, he was a fraud, on a systematic basis. A charlatan.. a fake.. A traitor to the very doctrine he reputedly represented. If I took Newton's calculus, and claimed I independantly came up with it.. some would ignore me, the rest would laugh me out of town. If I somehow could convice about 5,000 people that I actually did, they'd brand me a charlatan. Maybe this stuff bothers people that really try to work at something in life, and see somebody just help themselves..

I have a bridge.. across the divide.. I'll sell it cheap, I have no pride.. Hasn't been one like it built since the first century.. :) A few years old, just consider it a "fixer upper". (Ahem) lets start the bidding. A thousand, a thousand, who'll give me two, now three...

true, but vic was hardly another Solomon. true, but vic didn't write PFAL. PFAL was written by Stiles, Bullinger, Kenyon..

While I agree with everybody here I still wouldn't reveal a PM. I think it takes a bad situation, and makes it much worse.. Instead of having somebody furious, they are now frothing.. I would find it hard to trust someone who posts a PM publically, in the heat of the moment, or otherwise. The waiter here seems quite capable to mop up some messy threads..

If you equate "spiritual equilibrium" with "busy-ness" it makes sense to me, kind of in a warped way.. I think he's saying that anybody who is somebody is still on the "cutting edge"(whatever that is..), is busy publishing books, running classes, and generally, jumping over an army of devils with a single bound. So "busy" you don't have time to sit and rest for the next five minutes.. so harrassed with the supposed details of the walk that you blame it on being so spiritual. Things look rather different after you sit a spell.. maybe thats what he's afraid of..

Hey- I know how to reach him! Just write: The Teacher New Knoxville, Ohio The post office will know where to put it

Yeah, but the food was OK.. well kinda.. or what they put in it (probably handfuls of saltpeter)

I really expected better out of him.. Instead, its the same posturing.. same "Its the devil's fault".. "better stick with us, because its us against da debil".. Can't teach an old MOG new tricks I guess..