Ham

I dunno.. the further removed I'm removed from the old days, the worse and darker they look. I think I was addicted to abuse, like a narcotic or something. When people beat on a person, and it starts to feels good, I think said person is in trouble.

Seems to me, the only two ways you could really know what was in Bullinger's mind (or Luther, etc) would be one of two ways: 1. You knew said person, personally. 2. You've somehow channeled their spirit from the afterlife or something. What does THAT say about those who seem to be in the know? oh yeah, the old "God showed me". right. God's in the business of telling me what dead people believe(d).

The time taken off may be time well spent. You may come out of it with a lot bigger God than you had before. Seems to me, for some folks, a real encounter with the Dvine can be poison. Instead of accepting it for what it is, they try to mold and craft the experience into their old religious shells It doesn't really fit unless you do a lot of hacking away. One reason why is discount a lot of what goes on in TWI terms of "prophecy" anymore- I havent' seen it really produce the effects that it is supposed to do, as far as ICor 14 states. It is supposed to be a life changing encounter with the divine- not a "well, that's kinda neat" at best questionable experience, "was that really God" was usually my thought after hearing a bland, generic "I loves ya, ma people" message. I have the same question, why is this stuff in the bible? says we are supposed to covet to prophesy, forbid not to speak in tongues.. but I think to teach a way to produce prophecy on demand is flawed. Seems others have a similar observation, that it doesn't have quite the impact that it is supposed to. "Well, it didn't QUITE work right there.. lets try it another way.." Turn it into "personal prophecy" or some such nonsense- in CES it had an effect, not of edification, but unto destruction. One troubling statement- "WE are looking closer at the personal prophecy thingy".. what are they gonna do? "Well, it didn't work quite so right that time. Hmmmmm.. let's try this..." Here we go again. Sheesh.

I don't think its nuts. I tend to think that "it" is another living soul. Even the bible makes provisions for an ox.

A flashlight is a good idea, but I replaced the standard bulb in mine with a LED bulb. That should extend the battery life about 10 fold or so. Maglite now offers such a replacement, but it is rather expensive- about 20.00- for a bulb. The one I got was a generic replacement, and it cost a little less.

I know that Raf knows.. :)

I would suggest the the vicster's definition of an apostle was the very thing that enabled him to steal that title, or at least allow others to do so for him: "One who brings light to his generation. IT MAY BE OLD LIGHT, but it is new to the generation he speaks." "Old" light? Criminy.. Don't give me no used second hand light now. So, to be an "apostle"- all one must do- is find a little known or understood bible verse.. or pick up some old stuff like of Bullingers stuff, that hasn't seen the light of day for the most part of a century or so.. preach it as your own, and- voila! You're in the believer's "hall of fame(shame)" loy tried that on several occasions too. And the people just nodded their heads.. Nobody else was even ALLOWED to present some of that material, in a public forum. People were forbidden (strongly encouraged not) to study stuff that the vicmeister didn't preview for "accuracy" either. I was there, I remember this. The guy that ran the limb in California, and later Michigan, FORBAD people to use the Companion Bible. Why? I guess he didn't want anybody to pull out any "new light" who didn't have the proper credentials. "Apostles"??? sheeesh.

Yep- it was another suggestion tantamount to a command by the old vicmeister.. I think people don't want to remember those kind of meetings.. the yelling, screaming.. even in the seventies. Seems some folks would rather remember the fish, the garlic, the onions, the leeks.. "well, they beat the snot out of us, but the food was OK.." maybe vic wasn't right after all, the way to a man's heart actually is through his stomach.

And I was taught that the "believers" were supposed to do BETTER than what the rest of the world was doing. My english prof told us that we could write anything any way that we wanted.. but that documentation was to be adhered to as law.. no bending of rules, no exceptions. "I really don't wanna flunk you, but if you insist.." Most of these guys have a very, very good memory. They WILL remember what they read and if you steal something, you are cooked. In my school its grounds for expulsion. But I don't know anyone that has been thrown out- 99.999% here live up to the standards. Is it laborious? Not really. The first time I wrote a paper, it took a LITTLE effort to figure out how to document internet sources. But once you get the form right, its easy enough to look over your old work to see how to do it right. The rules do not change. Even if you paraphrase, you STILL must document. And in the right way. I think that if a person refuses to document, its pure laziness, or fraud.

I find it interesting, how TWI demands from the rest of the world that which they do not fulfill- academic honesty. Look at the lawsuits.. the threats, the wrangling- over copyright infringement. Yet vic and others helped themselves to whatever their hearts desired, without the bat of an eye. I guess they think it must be ok to steal if its for the right reason.. I set out piles of peanuts in the back yard for squirrels here (I used to put out walnuts when they were a lot less expensive). If I have five piles out there, even widely separated, the same two squirrels will fight over each pile, one at a time.. what they don't know, or acknowledge- the nuts are MINE. Reminds me of TWI and offshoots fighting over a bag of bones that didn't belong to any of them to begin with. Ironic..

sounds like the BOD on the debt issue: "We have QUALIFIED people working on it.."

Sunesis, I would say because their PERSONAL dream means SO LITTLE to them. I threw mine away once, thinking this kind of hucksterism had more to offer..

Hmm.. who are "we"? "We" as in the Queen of England? Sounds like more subtle posturing for power-"Well, you oughta KNOW who WE are".. ptooie. If disbanded, who is running the place? Huh? What does that have to do with the present circumstances at CES? What do you mean? Is the bad old judge picking on CES? I could spin that little statement a couple dozen of ways.. Really? Lessee.. you just dissolved your beloved "P(rophetic)AC" and yet your book is STILL the best thing since sliced bread? Sure.. send me a dozen copies.. sure I can find some use for them.. Yet one more shameless plug. "Show over, wanna buy my book?" Sheesh.

George, my prayers are with you too. Sure gives me a little different perspective as far as my little problems are concerned. Seems unfair, this life is too short, even if you live to a hundred..

Well, nobody could flunk it with as much style as you, Exie!

I am a math major, chemistry minor. I may need to add a few more computer related classes though.. I would have had an A in the linear algebra, but Mr. Nimrod gave us assignments on the internet Sunday night, due monday morning. I didn't have internet access this last semester at home, so I found myself trying to do the assignments while listening to lecture in the C class on monday morning.. grrrrrrrr.. Oh well.. <_< All in all I am happy though.

The real woo hoo- I keep my scholarships :)

Not bad for an old guy, taking thirteen credits, working full time, and has at least SOMEWHAT of a life besides.. Linear Algebra- B Calculus based statistics B- (grrrr) C programming A Spanish A GPA for the semester: 3.469

Hmmm. Could be, but often the skunk-pelt gets passed to someone who proves themselves to be "properly qualified.."

I would agree. 18 hour seminars on "dispensational truth" or "discerning of spirits" need not apply

Didn't exactly work with der vey.. Usually, those doing the exposing were the "item" thrown out. Let's see if history repeats itself..

Priceless..

For what it is worth.. Perhaps some of these guys in CES did indeed see "something" out there. Perhaps they were too rational to accept it for what it was. Can't exactly bottle it and sell it, but it appears that they have tried.. "five simple steps to ecstasy, a bargain at $50.00 per seminar (or whatever the current selling price is)" Its not limited to TWI, or the offshoots either. I read some advertisements for commercial kabbalism, and they read EXACTLY like the claims for PFAL and the offshoots seminars, only with the words "bible" and "kabbalah" interchanged. Same for witchcraft, casting spells, etc. I think our rational approach to life DEMANDS an explanation of anything out of the ordinary. Sadly, I think most settle with the wrong one. See a vision, build a church, start a cult..