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I forgot about that.. "Suidide Microwave ovens" ha ha ha ha ha... In all fairness though.. he likely knows how to use a computer. Tie a rope to an old seventeen inch monitor, and use it for a boat anchor..

YES.. YES, and YES. I had a "good" year.. but a lot of others didn't. ONLY reason that I had any measure of "success".. Ral*h D was the limb coordinator.. and he didn't put up with a lot of crap. There weren't very many, of his kind..

Nice song White Dove.. some things are WORTH losing.. sometimes you can end up with something better.. Seems if you think you lost everything.. perhaps you had nothing to begin with..

Hmmm. HE was genuinely hurt.. he reproved THEM.. sounds like he really cared.. only for HIMSELF. Not that I was aware of.. my understanding, he roasted a few people with fire publically, because of MINOR errors, and "missing" etiquette and protocol that even Emily Post was not aware of.. Poor corps were sometimes so worn down from swinging from gluttony to starvation, besides lack of sleep, and verbal berating.. they'd believe anything.. Sorry, I just HATE shots. Beat me with a hose, anything.. but please, no shots..

Something about this picture just doesn't look right.. for the life of me.. I just can't see loy scooting around on a motorcycle.. it would "ruin" his hair..Perhaps his "father" wanted loy to adopt the same interests.. jeeze. Bad enough he took up all his other bad habits.. CAREFUL deliberation??? I doubt it. Ah.. more of the same old stuff.. "You're in, you're out. You're a speck of dirt in God's eye, you're the greatest" Again, and again, and again.. gads, they sure were masters at keeping people off balance.. I WONDER why. vic "confronted" the guy? Asking him WHY? The guy is incoherent for God's sake.. how is HE gonna know???! I wonder how much it had to do with the freakin instability.. "you're in the corps, you're out. You're a pile of dung, you're wonderful. You're.." Not to mention the diet there.. first gluttony, then starvation.. Probably would have made me incoherent too.. So much for being able to help somebody in a crisis.. just send them home.. unbelievable. Concerned. A godly attribute.. and vic just proceeded to beat the last shred of humanity out of ole loy.. "move on son, nothing more to see here.." "There's NOTHING you can do". Really? Seems this little lesson taught loy how to "handle" people.. just put babbling, incoherent people on a bus, put "disobedient" staffers and whole families in a Ryder truck with little or no resources.. no place to go, and no way to get there.. and not have even a tweak of conscience doing so.. I kind of wondered where he learned this..

Hmm. been about five days since the challenge was issued.. Could it be.. he has NO integrity? And the charges are, TRUE? Myself personally.. I may have my faults, but if somebody laid these kind of accusations at my feet, I'd raise holy crap.. unless it all were true..

I think vic didn't teach it.. along with the book of revelation.. because.. he wasn't that smart. Too big of a book.. too much context to consider. Too many "anomalies" to deal with.. too much of a chance of being technically wrong. Or maybe he just couldn't find anything around worth plagiarizing, besides Bullinger..

I voted for invasion of privacy and running my life.. But if you had a write in, I'd say, "finally woke up". I woke up.. to the reality that I COULD NOT do what "they" said. Even if it WAS "the Word". Just plain impossible. I beheld the hoops and standards as they were raised higher and higher.. and I was just too darn tired to jump anymore.. Pathetic, I know..

OK Socks. Let me offer my personal alternative: "I'm NOT okay.. but I can finally live with it.." At least a person wouldn't be exactly dissappointed in their belief.. would they? Just a thought. No matter how great a grand illusion that someone has that they are OK, it seems that they can always find somebody that is "more OK' than themselves. Exie: For myself, I don't find Greasespot to exactly be a safe haven.. for me, its more about connecting with people that are not much unlike myself, in a different, but needful way.

Hogwash.Emotions are SUPPOSED to GET STUFF DONE.. at least sometimes.. Sure.. I guess you are supposed to quote fifteen retemories to prove to yourself that you shouldn't feel bad because you just reemed some innocent soul five or six new holes.. go ahead and bury it somewhere.. "You'll be SORRRRRRRYYYYYY".. Yep.. it'll be back.. If it was me, I woulda said "emotions are a necessary part, and TEMPER the practicality of clear thinking and moving..." I would imagine that that was just the tip of the iceberg.. here the lady is married to a stinking womanizing,abusive plaigiarst, probably one of the only few good folks in the ministry at the time, and she doesn't get squat. I would be, well.. furious. Real love doesn't give a darn about "protocol".. I bet it really wasn't about all that.. Explains a LOT.. ah, that's why he reemed loy and others like there was no tomorrow..Makes me wonder how loy feels about all that "love" now. You know he's had to at least thought about it.. Same reason the extremists kill people today.. because they love "the word".. just a different bible, that's all.. That was the PROBLEM. Lest I repeat myself.. just read the three previous paragraphs..

Sorry I've ignored this thread for a while.. Very very good point. And I am beggining to agree more with this. How could he communicate with them, indeed.. and in da class, vic said: "God CANNOT communicate with the human, brain cells".."God can communicate only with what He is, which is, spirit"If God only communicates through this supposed one genuine spiritual connection.. there is a lot of good stuff in the world that you have to explain away as counterfiet, of the devil, or some other way.. They... MUST. Says a lot.. and I would further add, they DO, until society and religion often beats it out of them.. Temple Lady, lest I be one to selectively quote you..I will say, yes, I'm at least considering the age of accountability factor as regards to this.. I'm just not entirely convinced though.. That has been my experience, as well. I have often observed the opposite.

Maybe this is overly simplistic, but.. If God is the great "I will be what I will be", and His wisdom is infinitely diversified.. seems to me that even three Gods wouldn't be enough to really represent His true nature.. at least in man's way of thinking about things.

I'm SURE it did. Of course, it only contributed to his public persona.. My translation: "As leaders in da ministry, despite all of your attempts at meddling with the piddly, insignificant crap in their lives, they often spurn your advances. You have proven yourself such a meddler in rumor and innuendo, that you simply do NOT have the time, no less the aptitude, to be involved in REAL problems. Hence, when your people are in a REAL crisis, they'd be better off if you didn't give a rat's foot" Ah.. if all else fails, yell, scream.. I wondered where he learned that one.. would seem someone so "spiritual" would recognize ole craigster's "heart to serve"..imagine his fate if failed to provide for the old vicster's "comfort".. Wonder why it wasn't so practical, for himself.. Seems people actually started waking up, even back then.. ah, the "good old days".. And old vic knew this.. in more ways than one.. ginosko, you know..

Often, it is not a "fresh" start.. often, it is the same old same old.. same error ridden doctrine, same abusive practice.. kinda like VP's "fresh start" outside of the watchful eye of his old denomination. I wouldn't paint everybody with the same brush though.. there are quite a few exceptions to this.. But for the original topic of the thread: The ONLY spin I heard (or was ALLOWED to hear) was loy's- that "we are their employer, and that they owe us some loyalty.." now I hear stories where people were unceremoniously "dumped" for expressing loyalty to God first.. what arrogance of a man, to think that that same loyalty implied absolute loyalty to himself.. Somehow, I thought der vey was supposed to be a fellowship, an association, even at a clergy level.. that the PRIMARY allegience ws supposed to be to God Almighty.. Interesting how loyalty was demanded by an organization, that demanded: 1. To acknowledge the infallibility of a MAN 2. to hold dearly to their "traditions"- 3. and the lowest priority on their agenda- "the Word". Sound familiar?

Well.. it promised me the WORLD, for a mere eight-five dollars, and ONLY thirty six hours of my time.. looked like a real bargain, at the time..

Sounds like they finally managed to sift all the wheat out of the organization there.. yikes.

Too beautiful of a state to subject to that kind of riff raff..

I kind of look at the percentages.. so to speak.. I look at how SUCCESSFUL they were in sweeping a FEW known incidences that I am aware of under the proverbial rug.. and would go to practically any length to protect their whiter than snow, pristine, "reputation".. Only time I think they EVER called the police was when something "untidy" happened to THEM- like D*oug M**ullen showed up on Vey property. Didn't give a d*mn about anybody else.. no matter how bad it was.

Why doesn't he answer... hmmmm. Could it be, FEAR? Plain afraid.. afraid of Rosie.. I imagine they have the goods on him every bit as much as he has the goods on them.. afraid of admitting what he really has become. Donna still at headquarters.. I would imagine she very well may call the shots on what kind of interaction he may possibly have with his family. Yes, even though they have grown up to a degree.. afraid of losing whatever stability he thinks he has left.. Afraid of being "wrong". Kinda tough, taking an honest look in the mirror. What a lousy existence he must live in. Naw, we won't hear from him..

Melting.. hmmm. Hey, Temple lady, I thought that maybe it was that you were just moving to a warmer place in the world! :D Myself, I'd love to move south. I don't HATE snow anymore.. just don't "appreciate" it like I used to..

I think it looks more like a cat in a nightclub.. "Let me tell you the one about a rabbi, a priest and ..."

Maybe its not the real chair. Will the real chair, please stand up.. or stay seated.. or something..

Sorry, I don't even remember the song..

Outandabout, somebody had to do it! :D

Actually, Confused, I do still hold to some of what I was taught.. just a little. I still think believing has value.. just don't consider it exactly a law any more, and don't try to gague results based on material abundance. I DON'T "witness". I'd rather show a sermon, and some of the time, I have found that difficult enough to do.. Door to door? Pardon me, while a run away.. :D I believe that God IS. And that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.. and at the same time, don't think he owes me that shiny new car.. I do not share financially with any one single organization. I enjoy spending some time with some fellow christians around here.. but I'm still a little gun shy in this category. Might take a little longer for me than others..