Ham

One more thing.. these "failures" I listed are just the tip of the iceberg. There are pages of crap I just don't have the stomach to go over again. Show me the results.

Oh yes- the bible- it was an oxford loose leaf type- cost me about $120.00 bucks, and that was in the very early seventies. If I can find somebody to scan it I'll post a picture of a sample page. I think that falls under fair use as far as PFAL is concerned..

Yep.. I still have to admit I got some good out of it. Still won't call it miracle soap.. Funny, after over twenty five years I feel like I'm finally heading in the direction God really wanted me to go to begin with. Just pray I live long enough to do it- I've already outlasted the life span of most of my ancestors. So.. what did PFAL do for me? bestides the good stuff, and I will be among the first to admit that there is good in there- but I reserve the right to take out the "garbage"- No, I was not corps. But probably about as close as you could get. I wasted years of time and effort I could have spent really bettering myself. Untold hours of working the details of PFAL in the books and anything else I could get my hands on. Listening to the SNS tapes over and over. Ignoring what God had in mind for me all along. I spent too many years in a second rate job, so as to be able to have the "freedom" to help- help run classes, help with local fellowships, give, give, give. Don't get me wrong- it was not all bad. But the constant working of the materials, over, and over, and over again- never made me more spiritual. If my life depended on it, I could not just rise up and "turn on" the function of a prophet, or the function of a healing ministry if it was needed, or the function of anthing I was not. All the mastering, all the "believing" did not help me get it. Years perhaps not entirely- but mostly- wasted- spent trying to be something I was not, something I would never be. What "suprises" me is I even believe in a God after all of the stupidity. A lot of people were less "fortunate". So where am I now? Unless I win the lottery, I probably will never be able to retire. Where's the big promises of abundance? I should be filthy rich. I find myself desperately trying to dig myself out of the hole I've put myself into. Yes, I did it- but at the encouragement of others. Obviously, "mastering PFAL" is not going to be the way out. I have $800.00 in the bank. That is more than I had last year. Thank God I don't "owe" $120 of it to some stinking cult. Maybe you can see how this "if you just return to PFAL and master the principles" kind of sent me off the deep end. The Dr. Seuss stuff was kind, compared to what I really thought of doing. I have joked with friends about putting an add in the Sunday paper, "forty-some year old college student, seeks adoption. Well mannered, housebroken.." It's a miracle that I don't go into fits of depression. It's a miracle I have the will left to try to dig myself out. All that said, still don't feel sorry for myself- most of the time, anyway.. and there is light at the end of the tunnel. I'm not writing to solicit pity. Just an honest assessment of what all this ministry stuff did for me. In a lot of practical ways, PFAL did not live up to its claims- led to disaster. Mike, when I ask for results, I have a few good reasons.

Too polite. Tell us what you really feel, heh heh.

I dunno- I read the Mike posts for a long time before considering saying anything. It seems that debating the doctrinal "irregularities" go nowhere. Have all the info on your side, all the logic- does no good. I thought I'd try something different- examine the practical side. If it's so great- show me what it's DOING. Show me the results- none to date. I showed mine- some not so pleasant. Explain that away- I was a "master" of PFAL. Crap still happened, deliverance came, but not the PFAL way. Some things, I could NOT fix. I hope it helped somebody.

OK you two rascals that voted for the valium, well, you know who you are anyway, heh heh.

Anybody want to call old Joe a girl, well, we've got some issues, heh heh.

I chose the name "Mr. Hammeroni" as kind of a play on words- "Italian ham radio operator"- but I'm not Italian.

Yep. I am a ham radio operator. Use morse code all the time. That's one reason I chose the last avatar- looked to me like young Joe Walsh when he was in James Gang..he is also a ham radio operator- WB6ACU. I always messed around with radios and electronics, but got involved with the local radio club here shortly before exit from TWI. Nice bunch of folks.

"Gotta work PFAL"- God may have told YOU, sure did not tell ME. Maybe YOU didn't "get it". I did- way too much.

The only thing that "suprises" me is how long it took to say "enough is enough". Honestly. How long I hung around that stink-hole. How long I justified lack of results. How many times I kept going back to the same miserable trough trying to get some real nourishment. How long I either ignored or stood behind doctrinal and practical error. How long I accepted the blame for lack of results. No more. Some gleaned some good out of this thing- no fight with them. I managed to get some good, but I'm still coughing up junk. Ptooie.

Still.. what results? Perhaps you were not a zealous as I was. In our classes- we read the materials. We worked the books- while we were going through the class. More times than not. Honestly- I could tell you the difference between how Doc handled "needs and wants parallel" in the book AND the film class. I remember even the stinking jokes- even the ones he chose not to put in the PFAL book. We worked over even the most mundane, insignificant crap- people counted how many times he said "Christ in you" in session five- trying to attach some mysterious significance to each "occurence". We debated endlessly why he was justified in omitting "ye think" in John 5:39. In the film class, he really stumbled over that.. almost choked. But there it is, all in it's glory in the written materials. This kind of handling of God's Word is STILL a stumbling block, but not to me anymore. I went as far as to write the entire PFAL book, RHST and more in minature form in my bible. I still have it. The sixty-two page sylabus also forms an appendix in the back of my bible- word for word, charts and all- hand copied, exactly to the letter. I went as far as to take the sylabus, and bracket the verses listed that Dr. only quoted, not directly read. I worked that sucker up and down, inside and out, day and night sometimes- year after year- and a lot of times it STILL did not work. Still. Still at many times, bad stuff happened anyway- believing or not. Sometimes good stuff happened out of the blue- no believing involved. Sometimes good things happened because of God, and because I "believed" and because of what I learned. And life is the same today. I refuse to even open the thing anymore. No more. Got insufficient tools? More honestly- some of the "tools" were not "tools"- they did not work. I remember the tools- some of them I wish I could FORGET. "Fear is believing, it is believing in reverse..." Some of it was good.. other parts were skewed beyond any recognition or pattern of logic. There were times I got some real CRAP and I DID NOT have fear. So.. WHAT results? Honestly- honest question. I showed you mine. Some were OK, some stunk. And a lot of the stuff is pretty personal. Show me yours. What (and I mean in a concrete manner) did it do for you? What is the present "mastering" and labor doing?

Jenny Scheitz. Hope I got the last name spelled right.. Anybody know of her, hear from her? Knew her in Morgantown WV one year- wonder how she made out. Anybody know? I think she was in Indiana for a while..

True, true- but why don't they read the first half of that verse? "The rich ruleth over the poor". Every bit as valid as the second half. My current financial condition would almost fit the right criteria for vey "membership"- but I'm friggin POOR. Could not afford cost of rent for a whole house- and pay for school, transportation to work and school, etc. Could not afford even a reasonable payment to the bank. A year or so, and things will be different. I am in servitude to a friggin landlord. Thankfully, he's a nice guy. Cheap place. Can't do what I want though- no pets, no this, no that. Can't have my own furniture, no more holes in the wall.. I'm not complaining about it- but why can't they see it? The landlord "rules" over me. There is nothing I really have to say about it. The verse itself does not condemn debt- "The borrower is servant to the lender, and this is an unruly evil". Nope.. just a statement of PRINCIPLE. Don't have a boatload of money? You just may have to follow somebody elses rules. Either way you go- poor, or in debt. It just makes me wonder who these supposed "experts" that ole Rosie and gang unleashed upon the scriptures. No names- wonder why. No accountability, I guess. "We have our people working on, even as we speak"- ha. Maybe some nineteen year old corpse "grad" that just can't figure out what a concordance is- that by some freak of nature, he does not have any recognizable "debt". More likely to be a big rubber stamp with some guys face painted on it.

What I find interesting- how easy it is for some to label somebody asking for verification of the claims as unspiritual, ignorant, or at worst possessed. Maybe "just not walking"- not "mature". I'd like to see that tried on a bank examiner. Or an IRS agent during an audit. Call him whatever you want- but if you claimed nineteen dependents and you only have one, you're STILL in a heap of trouble. Throw all the mud you want- scream, shout- try to "give that possessed IRS guy over to da adversary". Sorry, results not guaranteed. I don't really like to see people squirm- I've done it a lot myself- I know what its like- I know how it feels. But really- if you can't figure out the PFAL thing after forty five to sixty some viewings of it, somethings gotta be wrong.

This nonsense reminds me of what's going on in the PFAL thread.. all the claims- all the promises. People HAVE asked. How do we do it? What a friggin lame answer- "well, somebody in Timbuctu managed to pay cash for a house a couple years ago.." No results- then or now. Maybe they just have to increase the proportion- give say, THIRTY percent- Yep. That oughta do it.

Morse code key. People kept saying my old avatar looked like a girl, heh heh.

Please don't take the Amway thing wrong. I knew lots of nice folks that sold Amway products.

I've been on this track for some time. I know its hard to read intent behind something typed up on a keyboard. I managed to alienate Galen and a couple of other folks- who are doing the right thing- or the best they know to do. Never was my intention. What I object to is turning Christianity and the Word into a version of a high pressure, positively motivated, promise you the moon and world besides if you master it right, infomercial. "Do it the way WE tell you and you can even jump over the moon".. just like to see them try it first. They make the claim, don't get mad at me if you can't do it. And I STILL demand it- they said it, don't tell me I have to do it- let's see YOU do it. Easy to tell somebody else to do it. Reminds me of Amway/Shaklee/etc. Maybe some people make out OK, but.. the real secret to "success" is to find SOMEBODY ELSE to "sell"- somebody else to do the work. If someone's spirituality depends on my compliance with their criteria, well.. I feel sorry for them. They'll never see it. I'll dissappoint you fifty times before breakfast. That's what I came OUT of. Not gonna go back in- for anybody. Honestly, my first reaction to some over-rated claims is to laugh my rear end off. Maybe its a defense mechanism or something- dunno. Ludicrous claims. Sorry, that's just me, right or wrong. I'm not perfect anyway. I often found myself doing it the way "they" told me to do it, and it just plain did not work. "Well, you must not be REALLY committed, maybe not enough study, not enough of this, enough of that" Just work it a dozen more times- yecch. Makes more sense to go to the corner bar. Pretty unrealistic. Even Paul did not have the guarantee that people would not beat the crap out of him- except maybe once that I can think of. No promise that if he'd believe right, that everything would be nice and rosie. I would not blame these "failures" on the man. I don't blame God either. Interesting though.. after Paul and Silas got "the beating of their lives" they weren't sitting around trying to figure out what principle they missed, which principle of believing they must have forgotten, where they broke "fellowship".. which disciple in "the camp" must have been evil- they were singing- even when it still must have hurt. All the "mastering" of PFAL in the world would not have stopped it. All the retemories.. Sometimes, rotten stuff just plain happens. Believing, or not. "All receiving is believing"- hogwash- and this WAS stated. Kind of interesting that the Lord would tell him that this was going to be part of the course. Still didn't stop it from happening- but he knew what he was going to be going up against.

OK- Joe Walsh, apparently I am not, heh heh.. If you look at the new avatar with a magnifying glass- its a Morse code key. Little more "hammish".

Actually, if I find out that I'm a blathering idiot- that's OK too- just working in the wrong profession. Some blathering idiots take advantage of it and make a fortune..

Heh heh.. I actually thought the avatar looked kind of like Joe Walsh in his younger days. I tried painting a mustache and beard on it and updating, but that got its own set of complaints. Seems the ladies like a clean shaven man.. That's OK- but I'm not about to shave my legs and other unmentionable parts.

Funny, he does not name them. Who are they? My guess, probably not worth naming- stinkers a quarter the age of ole Bobbers himself.

Would the properly qualified person please put this in "just plain silly" I know its hard to assess what somebody is like from the nature of their comments and posts at times, but- I am relatively new here, compared to most. What does the "audience" think? Mr. H / Mr H's posts is/are: Have at it, after all, I asked for it!

Oh yes.. I forgot. This was one of the rabbits pulled out of the hat when results were questioned, or questionable. "Well, we don't see results here because THE PEOPLE are not spiritual enough- they're just too darn materialistic in the good ole USA". "Results not guaranteed". I bought that too, at one time. More dodging- like Saul, "its THE PEOPLE'S fault". Couldn't be him.. I have encountered all types in our country- those who believe, those who do not, and those who mock. Same in ANY culture. Somehow, all the mocking in the first century did not stop Peter or the others. Just the shadow of Peter hit you.. wowser. And he did not take twenty five years to figure it out. Those in that precious "biblical" culture faced as much unbelief, hatred, primitivism, you name what else- as almost any other "ungodly" culture has since. The Romans were such "nice" guys you know. Idolaters. Had a god for everything under the sun. Stick you if you looked at them wrong. Not to mention the failures of the Jewish religion of the time. They did not HAVE a PFAL class. They did not have the luxury to work it over sixty times before figuring out how it worked. Somehow, God still managed to pull it off. Quite a few of them could not even read. Sure, they had epistles- but I bet not one in a thousand had their personal copy to "master". How hard does it have to be?