Ham

But what about the toilet paper? There have been several small wars started over which way to install the stuff in the holder contraption- some have it roll over the front, others INSIST that it MUST be installed to roll over the back and down the wall. Wouldn't suprise me if they really got on somebody for installing it in reverse, inviting negative results. Worse yet would be the case if you installed it both ways in different bathrooms in the house. Gotta mean trouble- you'd be, well, "double- minded", and we know what that means..

[deleted] Oldies, I think that was perhaps a fair assessment based on a someone's personal experience. Not a falsehood- perhaps even a reasonable assumption. I saw this kind of thing firsthand also. I saw those, who would otherwise receive the same beatings, given the "priviledge" of sitting in the inner circle- simply because the person happened to intimately know or be related to the right person. "They" were smart even then- the consequences of chasing off whole families would have been more of a problem than they were prepared to deal with. These FEW "exemptions" lasted in my area until the mid-ninties at the latest, then everybody was fair game for scrutiny, tongue lashing and worse. Who knows.. maybe they went easy on you so that someday somebody would be suspicious as to why, heh heh. Cripe- even Dillinger was a nice guy, to a FEW folks. Times he could turn on the charm- and they would have sworn on their mothers grave that he was the nicest guy since the earth cooled.

I agree. I try to leave a loophole in these arguments because I did indeed encounter Corps that had a heart of gold. One of them is my cousin- couldn't say enough nice things about her. Really into it to serve. After spewing out all the bad crap the bast***ds did, sometimes I can't say enough good about what some of them did. Just seems that SOME- and quite a few- of those put in charge just happened to be among some of the worst. Sometimes its easy to be misunderstood.

Galen- yep, outside of limb meetings. Sometimes people that had sceduling conflicts with ministry activities were treated like they had leprosy or something. If they wouldn't "rearrange" their schedule- something must have been "really wrong" with them. They were supposed to get a second rate job that would allow them the time to come to fellowship, and be available to help and participate in classes. If people going to school had scheduling "difficulties", the advice was practically "whadya mean? You think your precious education is bigger than da verd??!!! You WANT to DO the word, don't you?" That would be a more accurate assessment of the situation.. The sad thing is all of this insanity sounded pretty logical to me at the time. I still don't know what happened to the guy with the Master's degree. They "escorted" him outside of the "holy be blessed" 250 mile radius of "headquarter protection". "Assigned" him at least ten states away. Put him in a place where "they" could keep a close eye on him. Haven't heard from him since. Un friggin believable.. Oh yes, the L.B.J.A.'s- they were SOME wannabes, but normally leadership. Maybe they thought somebody with a "miracle" WOW or Corps experience would look good on their resume, who knows.. My eyes must have been so glazed over- didn't even bat an eye at this crap after a while. I guess I was like a lot of other people- thought that was the way life was supposed to really be. From what I've seen, most people treat their horses better. From what I read here, and from conversations I've had, I think we were trained to ignore problems. "Just believe, we KNOW da verd works, DON'T WE?" So I just let problems add up. Year after year. After a while, to me, they just weren't there anymore. But I did not get rid of them. Still just waiting silently to surface again. No wonder I can go nuts sometimes, heh heh.

Anyway, why didn't I just leave? At one point, there appeared to be enough good left in it to put up with the bad. How did I get tangled up in that mess? I think a lot of ways, I was like a horse. The saddle didn't feel too bad, we had some good times and stuff- But slowly, "they" started tightening the leather. More commitment, more giving, more obedience, more more more. Slowly, more and more restraints were added, and I didn't have a clue of what was really happening. I don't claim to be the brightest of the bright or anything.. Its pretty easy to see it looking back now. But don't try it on me, again- or my kids. Won't work anyway, they didn't see "believing" fix everything for their dad anyway. At least their are smarter than me!

Galen, things were not always like that, and not as bad in some areas that I was in- I don't remember a lot of it when the ministry was "younger"- less health issues, younger people- didn't need as much money, but some did occur. Even in those days, doc had to say "quit telling people to quit taking their medicine". Some still did though. In the late seventies, I saw folks being talked out of a good career because some lame-brained jackass thought that it was his place in life to get another notch in his belt by motivating the people to "be all they could be" by going WOW, or corps, or more.. and most were young enough to not be concerned about what kind of financial condition they'd be in in twenty years or so. Or what kind of marketable skills they may or may not have acquired. I guess that's OK when you are younger, but you grow up sometime. In the eighties, we knew who to avoid. The "Hitler" types, the givers of stupid advice, etc. After a while, they got pretty angry- their "talents" being so under-utilized. But even then, we had the option of taking or leaving anything they had to say, and still retain ministry involvement. I saw some of the results of their counsel and refused to seek it from them. In the nineties the "idiots" were IN CHARGE. At least in my area. Couldn't avoid them any longer. Even if you could walk on the water, it wasn't enough. I saw couples split up and one go away in the night.. little explanation, you'd just never hear from them again. "So and so decided not to "believe" the word anymore". Later I find, the "unbeliever" just refused to take any more crap out of the local corps guy. Don't get me wrong. We had a share of some good guys too. But not very many. I saw one marriage survive DESPITE the best efforts of the local clergy. This was in the late 70's. Called the guy possessed and worse because he would not obey a stupid mandate. Told the wife to leave him. I saw worse than that in more recent years. I saw corps sell their homes and give loads of the proceeds to the ministry, because they were not "spiritually sharp" enough to handle MONEY. At least according to their overseers. Yep, they were out of debt alright.. The corps that came to our area HAD to sell their home, uproot their family, and move to an area that they did NOT like. Bitter? They proceeded to dismantle anything good left in this area, and did their best to leave no stone unturned. And their overseers could not see any wrong.. I was PERSONALLY advised to have no meaningful communication with inlaws that were "off the word". They were marked and avoided on "genuine spiritual suspicion". Apparently the wife did not appear as appealing to the limb jackass as he wished. "Must just be possessed.." I saw others advised to not seek college education, that it was earthly, sensual, devilish, etc. That the time was better spent going for "REAL" education, i.e., corps, wow, taking all the ministry classes, etc. I saw one guy manage to get his master's degree, but he paid for it with a LOT of grief from the ministry. He was corps, and he was never really trusted again after he got the degree. If you had a chronic health problem, you were not "believing". If you could not hold down a job, family, "twig", and clean, help the leadership move every two months, help them with their gardening, cart their kids around, etc., you were not "believing". Not "loving". It may have been a learning experience, but it is one I am glad Oldies did NOT get. He got his own share of other ones, I am sure.. From what I know from most of the other people whom I know that are out, they have related to me the same, and or similar events. I don't see how Oldies missed out on all this "loving" stuff, even in the seventies. I wish I was as "lucky".

I personally was subjected to SOME, and witnessed ALL THE ABOVE and MORE. The "above" was bad enough- the "more" would make your hair stand on end.. May not speak for "everybody in da world" but Uncle H. speaks for me. Add to this the religious bigotry exhibited by those on top of the dung heap- don't see how people put up with it- at least in their own thinking. "They" won't let you anywhere NEAR their drinking fountain. "Your kind" are not "welcome" in the least. It's almost like racism, with a religious twist- and you are certainly subjected to it, if you do not "take believing action" no matter how dire the consequences, at "their" slightest whim. I saw one person berated for not "believing" to have their broken arm healed fast enough so as to be able to slave away for the local leadership here. That's the condition of things in the group when I left. Some "country club" to "belong" to. Ptooie.

Well, that is advertising at its best. "Buy our commode, and you can look like this, too". The staff oughta really consider purchasing one to install in Rosies executive powder room.

But what I wonder is, do the bigwigs have to actually catch you in the act of leaving the cover in the up position? Or at your "inquisition" is "genuine spiritual suspicion" all that is necessary? "Well, in Loy's days, we hadda catch you with your seat up. Now, we live by a higher standard. If we have even the REMOTEST idea that they are up, you're OUTA here".

Bob, only half of that may solve the problem here..

Well, we have a "just plain silly" section now, but how about Just Plain Ludicrous

Or- it COULD be "new light" from the "research" department. "In Old Testament times, a common insult to the convening MOG was to leave the toilet cover up. This was tantamount to saying, 'may the toilet always bite you in the a**'" More likely that some poor staffer took a fall in the latrine, and got stuck and could not get out. This prompted an emergency meeting with the staff and corps, and the quick issuance of the decree that all toilets were possessed, that the bottom of the bowl MUST be marked and avoided. "Uncle" Howard would spin a yarn about how some worker in timbuctu got stuck in one in 1923, and it ended up costing the company millions even then for hospital bills and compensation, eventually bringing said company to financial ruin. Ole Rose, grimacing with rabidly zealous approval, would make the declaration that all such plumbing estuchments be closed, and barred forever from the One True Household, along with stern reminders of the fate of those who refused to comply.

Cripe- they could easily save a couple hundred bucks a year in toilet paper alone.

Shouldn't give them ideas, but- why not super glue the toilet cover shut? That'd solve all the problems. People spend far too much time on the thing anyway. Staff would no longer have to "sign out" to make unceremonious trips to the pot. Nobody would have to clean the thing any more. They could easily trim a few more off the payroll..

No, it can't be that simple. Proabably some new mandate from the BOT to keep the toilet spirits in check. An unscheduled trip to the "little room" and one of them might bite you in the a** if you're not careful.

Heh heh heh. No wonder he looked "excited", heh heh.

Now I know why farmers shoot rabbits..

A relative of mine got nabbed in the 70's. I think the parents figured out that the deprogramming was about as much of a scam as anything we were involved with.. I think they paid dearly, financially and otherwise. It took an invitation to their fiftieth (I think) anniversary for me to come back to them. Glad I did though. Their kid forgived them. The best I know, they have a good relationship.

Yes, yes, very good, no.

Pouring ice cold water down the front of your pants may be just as effective..

Well, happy Easter, Socks and gang.. Peeps are fun too. My kids used to put them in the microwave and watch them "blow up".

Reminds me of what one of my Physics profs says: Color is Fun! But he was harmless, until he reached for the "chalk of cancellation".

Very interesting question.

Yep.. I think less and less of performance based Christianity day by day.. results always gauged by a unreasonable standard, on "their" terms. PFAL took it to some real extremes- results guaranteed, results always available, a God that I could apparently figure out with the greatness of MY mind. That kind of god is WAY too small, for me. I have a hard enough time understanding how the creation itself works. Interesting.. the "pagans" had a god that they figured out- or more that one. They KNEW what their god did, or was supposed to do.. a god that'd take care of their crops, a god that would bring the sun up for them, a god that would.. fill in the blank. They "understood" their god- and understood the "deal"- and it was logical to them. They did their homage, their part- and the god would supposedly do his. Makes PFAL look so primitive to me. In a lot of ways, I still feel like I'm a savage. I find Ephesians rather interesting- here God and His love is revealed as being "infinitely diversified"- that was one good thing I got from the Vey. Unfortunately, though they beheld Him who is infinite, they chose to try to stuff Him back in a box.

Well, drink lots and lots of latex- you can have your revenge..