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Ham

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Posts posted by Ham

  1. Say what anyone else will, one of the best things I ever heard Vic say was at a meeting with the WOW's right after finishing the year. "A lot of you guys should really consider learning a trade."

    I remember that he went on even more specifically that it would involve going to school.

    No plug for the corpse, or more commitment, just good advice. They should have taken that little statement and put it in a book.

  2. True. Since I did not know him personally, I could not make that judgement either. But I do know where the underlings took things. These little phrases were used to manipulate in a big way.

    No wings in life? God not spitting enough in your direction? You must not be "improving' on the tithe enough. Now it's not ten percent as a minimum, but fifteen, even twenty. Forget any logic; your problem can't be because you have not improved yourself enough to be employable.

  3. Yep.. that's it. forgot it was published. I think this was one of Martinpukes failings. He did not really have the capacity to manipulate in a subtle manner- after a while, all he could do is scream. He replaced "tithing brings wings to life" with "if you do not give me a minimum of fifteen percent, God will not even spit in your direction."

  4. Skyrider, sounds pretty valid to me. Makes me feel bad for the kids. Just makes me think though. If she dumps him, why not go all the way? Donna should distance herself as far as possible from the source of abuse, the organization itself. Then I would have a little respect for her. Instead, she is locked into the same kind of crap. Besides the obvious perks, I can't see how pleasant the situation really is.

  5. Here's another one from the Vey dictionary.

    "Rewards."

    The God-given divine right to humiliate, abuse or make utterly miserable the supposed non-standing part of the "family" of God at the gathering together, and even at this present time, if you are counted among the "most faithful".

  6. Just a thought.. why should they get divorced? True, it would free up ole craigers and Donna to pursue whatever relationship they would want. But, who would in their right mind marry either of them?

    Maybe at tax time, Donna can still claim ole Craigers as a dependant. Probably all that she can get out of him..

  7. "Priviledge" is a pretty interesting concept. As my little brain can understand it, what are they REALLY saying?

    "This organization, being the best thing to happen to the world since the introduction of soap, is worth sacrificing more than one seventh of your time, more than fifteen percent of your income, just to have the "opportunity" to kiss our rear ends even more in a bigger way, even though we have little to offer other that rehashed B.S., but you will suffer great consequences if you do not."

    I beg to differ.

  8. I have seen several folk subjected to that kind of attitude. I think the key issue is that many of us allowed the ministry to define the terms.

    The phrases would be powerless without a non-standard definition being given to the terms.

    And a lot of the terms underwent a slow, gradual metamorphosis. "Family of God" actually had a good connotation at one time in the Vey dictionary. After a while, if you were not one of the family in "the household" you were not worth spit. "Well, they are just in the family" just was a nice euphemism for what was really intended.

    They also have changed the meaning for the term "love" several times. This helped to define who, what where when and why anyone or anything

    should appropriately be considered of being worthy of love. Certainly you are not, you did not give over fifteen percent this week.

    I think a lot of the phrases were really a blank check. Just write in a new condition or definition. Of course- keep the original phrase; then you are never wrong. You can say that "from peas to soup, we have always told our followers that they are supposed to have the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation (in the household)."

  9. I think the main problem was when people accepted the definition of the terms. The word, the word, and nothing but the word sounded pretty nice. But since "the word" was equivalent to "the ministry", anything else in your life but the ministry was relegated to the category of "second rate cause."

  10. Those were kind of my thoughts when I started what has "the word" cost you. True, "the word" cost US little. But add to that statement "the word is the ministry and the ministry is the word" and you start to really have some problems. Go a little further- "we eventually should come to the realization that we owe our very lives to the ministry." Whew, who ever thought of that? Now you're in real deep doo doo if you believe that!

    Funny how seemingly innocent phrases can be used to manipulate at first in a subtle manner. After a while it is not very subtle anymore.

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