Ham

I should be more mathematically correct. Assume that it is true that they are "the one true household", and "have the accuracy of the word unlike it was known since the first century". All it takes is ONE fact otherwise, and the assumption is proven false. One error and they're toast.

House.. what about- "that the ministry be not blamed". Man, that one was used to cover up some real bad stuff. Have a "believer" steal from you, or worse? Don't call the cops. After all, we don't want "the ministry" to appear tarnished.

The thing I can't understand- most of us have experienced rather close "supervision" in this organization. Even as just a regular lowly follower, they know almost everything about you. Finances, health, what kind of books you have in your library, details about your sex life, your daily and weekly calender of activities, and on and on. How in the world did they miss this? This guy was not just the lowly follower. From what I understand, the corpses and staff were required to live up to an even higher standard. Cripe, they could not even go to the bathroom without having to sign some kind of waver.. and this guy was not just a "regular" staff or corpse, he was CLERGY. Add to this that in the ministry we were supposed to find world-class experts that can spot a devil spirit under rock at midnight, even blindfolded, able to "confront the world with the logic of da verd". I think that kind of arrogance is a real problem. I can only think of two logical conclusions: 1. Since they were supposedly God's best, they had to have known about it and just turned their heads and let it happen. I do not subscribe to this, I cannot think that they are THAT evil. 2. The organization is a scam. What they teach and practice does not work. In other words, they are snake oil sellers that somehow convinced themselves that their unique brand of oil actually works. Obviously, it does not. At the very least, it is not quite as reliable and infallible as believed. This is pretty apparent to me. When things go really wrong, a logical person may wonder if perhaps he or she is really doing the right thing. Not "them". In the "good old days" (and probably even now) the answer was to sweep this kind of stuff under the rug, protect or "move" the perpetrator, almost anything, "that the ministry be not blamed". It seems to me that the product has more value than the customer, and must be protected at all costs. Even here, some are willing to seemingly fight to the death to defend it, despite its obvious flaws. Personally, I hold them accountable, at least in part. I am not just ranting about it. I would be willing to honestly consider a logical presentation indicating otherwise. I have yet to hear one. The same thing goes for other organizations that claim infallibility. The claim places the burden of proof on them. Must not be very comfortable.

"run like the wind" heh heh. Kinda like Forest Gump- we should have been "running fools"- I guess we eventually did!

Hello Trefor! Maybe you were spared from the full time corpse thing. It really spelled disaster in the U.S. Did they actually implement that on your side of the lake? Maybe you were subject to less central control and organization. Here's another nice phrase for you house.. "God showed me that the corps really needs to go full time" May not have been one of the set in stone phrases, but it was sure revered as such.

House, absolutely. Funny when it came to the "average believer", the individual was held accountable. Accountable for every little stinking detail. Held accountable- why you were sick, why you could not make the little insignificant meeting, why you are not taking the newest and the best class or seminar. Plus accountability in your finances, why you were not conducting your finances, child raising, and almost every other facet of your lives according the present truth dictates. Yet the inner circle seems to be above recrimination. They are free to do as they wish. Spend money like water, take vacations that most followers could only dream of. All seemingly without being held accountable for anything. Maybe that's not quite right- they are accountable- only to themselves, no other standards are necessary.

I certainly agree Kit, but there sure seemed to be quite a few exceptions. I think the really really rotten command more attention than they are worth. I have met a good share of really good folks, Ralph D. being one of that number. I have not gone corps, but those that I met went into da service for one of two reasons: 1. Love for God and God's people, just wanting to learn how to serve better 2. Those that saw it as a ticket to power. Must be kinda like the tares, they both grow till "harvest". I am thankful that some good came out of the experience.

Thanks Mr. 123. Hope to see you sometime soon.

Belle, that was Mrs. Wierwille. She supported them through thick and thin. And all of the good reasons were given for doing so- "the IRS won't let us take care of her".

Funny how nobody called them on this junk, at least publically (at least that I am aware of). The underlings were left to deal with it- "well, God just showed him what MIGHT have happened if.." Cripe, anybody can guess at what MIGHT happen. "If you leave, you will end up dying a lone and miserable death, your daughter will become a basket case" never happened to one famous poster here. For their corn cob outfit to have any chance of success, they somehow have to maintain the appearance that they actually have some kind of power over the followers. Funny how when they can't avert disaster in a follower's life, it is never the "averter's" fault. It is ALWAYS the follower's sin, unbelief, or other such nonsense. "He died because he worked in such a dark place". Unbelievable! I don't see how anybody puts up with it anymore. There is zero accountability.

Galen, that makes some sense. But they usually did not stop there. Whatever happened to the dire predictions of disaster? Like, the world is coming to an end in 1976, or Y2K. Usually along with the supposed prediction, an utterance was mumbled under breath about something like "unless people rise up" or other such nonsense. When the disaster DID NOT occur, this would also validate the great importance of their great "ministry in operation" that averted it. And innies swallowed it, hook line and sinker.

Ha ha ha.. Johnny, in other circles I think it is called "red herring".

Thanks for the kind comment everyone. Kit, the "happy new year" was pretty "cool". My kids have read some of the stuff I came up with this year, they tell me that maybe I am having a little too much fun, heh heh.

Well, before going to a friends and consuming a moderate amount of tequila, I want to wish you folks a happy new year. I have not had a real pleasant year, but time spent here has been the most fun I have had for a long time. My only regret is that I do not know a lot of you folks as well as I would like. I suppose that is just an internet thing though. Happy new year!

Seriously, you may have a real valid point there. with the code of silence, and the real strange doctrines that were embraced only (or mostly) by "the inner circle", anything is possible.

I dunno.. it would probably go more like this: "donna, have harv throw some more saltpeter in the fire."

I don't know.. but just a thought of seeing rosie wearing one of those red or black hooded robes, prancing around the cauldron and throwing a little salt peter in the fire might be pretty convincing.

Pat, you mustve been praying for me, heh heh. Just thinking, the bread and vegetables guy could use this as an example of how a thanks letter should be written. Probably think it was a compliment.

"Blessings" column. To whom it may concern, I would like to thank you for the little effort you expended for the thanksgiving weekend event. At not other time did da verd become so living and real for me. As I sat through yet another eighteen hours of such great spiritual enlightment, I could actually feel how Jeremiah felt when he was buried up to his neck in excrement. After a while, the teachings really began to smell of the same, of the bull variety. Your unnerving attention to "details" for the weekend surely made it all possible. Thanks once again for an unforgettable weekend. Love to the household, your eternally ingratiated follower, Joe.

OK Pat.. I feel something coming on, regard outhouses. It's floating around up there somewhere.. maybe a couple of days. No guarantees.

Now, I saw on another thread- another nice new phrase- "you can come back. Things are better here now, really." I would sooner "go back" to living under an outhouse..

House, I am not holding my breath while waiting for an apology either. Probably never see it, I can live with that too. But I think it was more of the principle of the thing. Most people that I have met actually care about the effect their words have on others. These are what are termed by TWI as "rank unbelievers" (another one of those great phrases!) and "empties floating by in the river of life" (whooee, pretty good spiritual judgement from one who spiritually couldn't find his rear end in the dark if his life depended on it..). I guess my point is, the worst of the worst (at least in TWI's opinion) has more kindness, consideration and honesty than the MAJORITY of the whole group combined. I saw some people with very minor faults recieve treatment that ordinarily and logically should be reserved for child molesters, rapists and murderers. And most of the "household" agreed with such treatment, at least some of us started waking up. "Let the devil work them over" was the supposed judgment. "No help from us". Have to get up in the middle of the meeting to use the bathroom? You were possessed with devil spirits from hell; just demonstrated how slothful you were, so "disrespectful" of the convening MOG. This actually happened. This and much more done because of another nice little phrase: "gotta keep the household clean". Funny how while all this stuff was going on, the most unclean bastard was sitting on the top of this supposed holy and righteous organization. And it has not changed. Same filth there today.

Good point Belle. That may also explain why there was so much mistrust and suspicion. Craigers and company knew what THEY did. And they knew how well they could keep a secret, by silence, intimidation and any other means possible. Is it possible that they were so skewed that they thought everybody else in the ministry conducted their lives in the same manner? Like the corpse said about me: "we KNOW that you is screwed up.." more like he was saying "I knows screwed up, and you must be screwed up too."

Holy cow! They even cut their financial ties from their biggest supporter. Of course "good" reasons were given. But was what was done "good" or "best"?

It may be a shot in the dark, but, If I were a younger staffer, or considering going in corps/vey disciple.. a logical conclusion would be: In twenty or thirty years I am going to be one of these people posting here about the BS I had to put up with. Consider the crap they did to ordinary folk like me, not corps, not staff- all I wanted was to go to "twig", learn the bible, have fun. What chance do you think you will have as the years go on? If the organization even lasts that long- you will be viewed not as an asset. Health care costs (or even the possibility of health care costs- we all get old sooner or later) will make you more of a liability than you are worth to them. A lot of folks here waited, hoping things would get better; and they sure did not.