outofdafog

http://www.eonline.com/videos/index.jsp?franchise=the_soup here is the one with the moon walk - video entitled Divine Dancing

JAL schmal. Gittin tired of this. Those folks over there will get over it all when they want to. And not a day sooner. Looks like JAL and his ministry are causing division and anger amongst people whom he hasn't see in ages! Welcome to, the twilight zone. My point exactly Johnny................oh and by the way...I know you are a guy......so I don't think my mental health is in question...........

Fog As I said I am done with this debate I am however concerned for your health You need not be concerned Whitedove, I usually respond to other posters in the sense that I do not know who they are, but since you insist, you are the guy that sent me the 2006 dove and failed to respond to my heartfelt thank you, you are done and yet you continue to post I don't mean this as any insult but here is what you said, three times you called me a she. Technically it would be hard for anyone to know that you are a he or she......I was just trying to protect your identity in my responses then you said you knew I was not. I hope you are ok really I am worried for you. Thank you for your concern, but with friends like you I need no enemies

The problems with CES run far deeper and are more widespread than John Lynn. John's letter is a distraction from the core problems, a distraction from how widespread the problems are. This is not something I said, I think it was Abbie..............

I started to read this thread...and got more and more bogged down with it so didn't finish it. So I may be wrong in "my opinion" here. Just wondered if anyone just walks individually with God anymore. I like to believe I do, that is why I don't believe this warmed over vomit from CES....there is no intercessor but Jesus Christ, not VPW or John Lynn ..or if it has to be with CFS or another offshoot. This person said this, this person said that, etc., etc. What ever happened to "me and God"? I've always valued my "one-on-one" with God, not what an organization told me. Continue to value that, your one on one, not what an organization tells you Is that now arcaic (sp) ? John's letter seems so wrapped up in "this person and that person and this situation and that situation...." where's the simplicity of the walk with God.....isn't that a primary....or am I just plain stupid? He wants to blame it all on somebody or something else

Fog call it what you want but I am done debating this issue with you. So why do you keep posting? Abbie is right it is distracting to the point of the thread , So you have found an ally in Abbie.....cool we just disagree if it is worth the fight or not over credibility. It's not about credibility, it is about truth..... I think it is for the big picture. I do too! Either way she has not taken sides her post was to me as much as you , I hardly think she sees me a victim or you the aggressor, and she is right you can read the letter either the words are there or not. In this case they are not. Finally I am not a she...just for the record ...... I know that....you were the gentleman that sent me the 2006 dove ornament which I thanked you for and you did not respond.....now you are responding??

If it isn't in the letter, then there's a good chance its off topic and detracting from the bigger picture. What is detracting from the bigger picture Sushi? I debate that the letter says thus, whitedove debates that the letter says thus....why am I wrong and she right? Why am I being addressed as the one who is fighting and she is the victim?

Sushi, how do you debate without sounding like you are arguing?? I am debating whitedove's point. She has insinuated that I am a liar. Do I just let that go by......What is the difference between debating and arguing. Synonyms for debate: From Microsoft Works thesaurus: debate: discuss argue dispute deliberate contest question I think I have done all of these.............

Certainly, he could be one of the problems, or a symptom as I said in my previous post. Discuss what the letter says, quote it if you need to prove the statement was made. It is the arguing back and forth, he did so, he did not, he did too that gets tiresome and detracting. Hell, we could spend hours defining the word "truth" but I'm not sure it would really benefit anyone. Hey I stated my opinion, whitedove called me a liar, water it down if you want...........Debating is not necessarily arguing back and forth...I have heard you do it in a few posts of your own Abigail, as well as pretty much every one here.....if you don't want to be distracted or tired out, skip over my posts............block me, ignore me, just don't water down the truth...........

The problems with CES run far deeper and are more widespread than John Lynn. John's letter is a distraction from the core problems, a distraction from how widespread the problems are. John was the original founder if I am correct. How did he let it get away from him like this. How is this a distraction??

Truth is foundational to help anyone as long as we allow lies to go unchecked there is no credibility here. What lies Whitedove, please indulge us with the lies we have told about poor John Lynn......

Correct me if I am wrong.......but this is the thread about the letter from John Lynn... it is possible that one of the problems with CES is about John Lynn......... just as the problems with TWI were Doc Vic and LCM and their doctrine...........

Gee Fog I'm glad you know everything about John's marriage to make these decisions why did you not share it with us sooner? Don't know alot about John's marriage, but I know alot about cult mentality... ....... as in before someone else told you about it? Two sides to every story I heard one. I'll wait for the other of course I like truth not one sided preconceived opinions. Yes I am sure there is a good explanation about why these horrible things were prophecied to this woman...and John Lynn took the side of the prophetess instead of his wife........just waiting to hear it from him Again I think you missed a part of my words I think I must have Quote:It is pretty common that people want to put forth their limited time and energy into something that they feel will be of benefit, most don't look for things that they feel will be a waste of their time. Also most won't go where they feel that all they will get is flack and hang out, I doubt you would either? which as you know I'm sure was my point. Excluding the percent of non Christian who used to be and no longer wish to be, and the percent that no longer want anything to do with any offshoots. That does not leave John much to work with left I'd say. Poor John It's a pretty easy concept fog people spend time an effort where they think it does the most benefit, there is very little here for him. If you don't get it sorry.... .....you mean there is very little to work with here at Greasespt because we no longer hold truth to the MOG mentality....we are free thinking individuals that think before we fall starry eyed to the next snake oil salesman package that comes along...if you don't get it sorry........

Hey if you are going to put your opinion out here, you can expect to be challenged........it's called life.........

never made any excuses for John I spoke only to the dishonest remarks concerning him how do you know the that the remarks about him are dishonest? ,that has nothing to do with an excuse it's called a fact. He is not dependent on CES for a job or income as others have implied and he has worked a day in his life as others have correctly stated And I am supposed to be impressed, I am 50 and have worked since I was 15....so what is your point? You need to get your facts straight before you challenge me. Perhaps you need to get your spiritual eyes and ears focused before you challenge me.....And I am suppsed to be scared...sorry been there, done that, bought the T-shirt........... That is how you proved the point it is untrue and it is verifiable that it it is, and it is not the only thing either. Untruth makes posters uncreditable that's common sense fog, if you are a liar then people wont listen to you because you lie also conmon sense. Darling....... common sense tells me that I am not going to listen to some lunatic person prophecy that I have spiders coming out of my nose in their dreams and that if my husband believed that over me he would be history......common sense..........if that makes me a liar so be it........

For the record I believe that John should have supported his wife also from what I have read, but I also may not know the whole story. Spiders coming out of her nose and dead babies in other peoples dreams or Karen Anne's dreams for that matter was enough for me to know the whole story It is pretty common that people want to put forth their limited time and energy into something that they feel will be of benefit, most don't look for things that they feel will be a waste of their time. Again, come on whitedove, he is so f'ing busy with things that he feels will benefit others that he can't spend a little time letting his faithful followers (note that it isn't just a follower, with him it must be a "faithful follower.) What is he doing, more research??? Ministering healing that he is so busy. Whoever posted the first thread regarding this Crisis in CES must have felt the answers important and not just a waste of the Board of Directors time, else he/she wouldn't have posted them on the world wide web. Quit making excuses for him, he is a grown man, responsible to God Almighty for the stuff that he teaches. Hey maybe he is writing another book!! Over 15,000 served (uh views)......please

If you reread my post the context of my comment was in regard to those just popping off making .... up without regard to whether it is true or not. Spiritual darkness is spiritual darkness if you have eyes that really want to see Because of this situation I would agree that there is no point for him to speak here why should he? I don't know, ask Jeff - he's the one that posted the letter...... If one wants respect it might be wise to give it, making snide remarks, talking about something you no nothing about is not doing that. Exactly how I feel about the snide remarks he makes at the end of his letter.....who else would he be talking to but Greasespot? That has a lot to do with how much respect and time a person puts into things. I'd feel the same way, respect me we can talk insult me why waste the time no point it is obvious that they don’t care. Exactly John Lynn, insult me why waste the time no point it is obvious that they don't care. Right back atcha.... I agree 100% with you that in this situation all need to come clean, if it ends up here fine, Good assessment but I don't think they owe this board a explanation. Nor do I, but some members of CES brought this up, not me they do owe their supporters one as you said. Agreed I would disagree that a great number of CES/STFI folks have been looking in on this forum Over 15,000 views, come one, somebody is coming here I see a few but in terms of their numbers it looks like a few to me. Just cuz they don't post doesn't mean they are not here reading There is nothing John could say that would please the crowd here and you know it, or any other offshoot leader for that matter. Except to come clean Do you go places that you are not welcome? really come on ..... why would one do that? Anything he says and you know how it is on the net, would be picked apart and twisted. Because it is so obviously flawed and devilish. A mediocre Christian could tell you that. Don't think so? Read his letter again nowhere does he say that anyone here is unworthy of dialogue. If we are worthy of dialogue, why doesn't he just come clean right here and now? Why does he care, after all he just thinks we are a bunch of disgruntled posters.If he has nothing to hide, why not put it out there, he's the one who claims he is the REV., why be scared of us, unless there is reason to be Not what he said, do you see anywhere where he said anyone was unworthy? I don't, and people wonder why he won't speak here? Because he is a coward, if he can't control the conversation, then he has fear He also never said he would not dialogue with people he simply asked to know who he was speaking with I find that a reasonable request in the internet age. Oh please, quit making sickening excuses for him....like we might be internet stalkers or sex perverts, he knows who frequents the GSC, EX-TWI.....if he is such a MOG....he doesn't need you to defend him, he can come here and speak for himself.......he didn't even have the nerve to post himself, he had someone else do it... I've said it before it makes the detractors of this site job very easy to dismiss this board as gossip, and unreliable when you prove their point for them. And just how have we proved their point for them. By asking a man who claims to speak for God to be honest?? If we want GreaseSpot to be a help to others then integrity and honesty must be at the for front not jabs, disrespect and lies. Exactly, consider that as you make excuses for him

you crack me up ex

No "glee" here.... Just hate to see people being fed crap and told that it is chocolate ice cream...........

A brief p.s. to critics of Spirit & Truth Fellowship: GREASESPOT Given the way that documents such as this somehow wind up on the Internet, GREASESPOT let me say a few things to our detractors who will use this current situation in STF to say “I told you so,” take potshots at us, and magnify our flaws above the good we are doing for people. First, God bless you, I love you. First of all, I believe several people on this thread GREASESPOT PEOPLE stated that they were not here to take potshots at anyone, or to say I told you so. The main concern that I see here is "what about the people" John?? What about the people that this doctrinal error has affected?? Are they expendable, so that the ministry may live? Where have I heard that before? Second of all, you don't even know me, so how can you know if you love me or not. Spare me the TV minister crap..... Second, be sure you know enough truth about the issues to make a rational judgment. I know plenty about the issues. It's the same issues that brought the BOD down in TWI. As much as you want to think you are different, your actions in the past few months apparently are quite similar to the tactics of TWI, especially the tactics used in the past few years. Third, get close enough to the nucleus of STF leadership to see their hearts before you impugn them. Sorry, I don't want to go to church with you. Fourth, take an honest look at what we teach from the Word about whatever subjects are pertinent to this matter, like prophecy. Prophecy is prophecy, and to criticize “personal prophecy” as unbiblical, in and of itself, is contrary to Scripture. We have a book on Prophecy that deals with this subject in depth from the Word, which you can get from www.stfonline.org. I didn't think that you would have the nerve to turn this into a commercial for a book. This was supposed to be a letter to clear the air, set it all out on the table, show your stand....but I am sorry, this is nothing more than a letter that you think will appease the questions of the starry-eyed masses. I wish that you could hear it in the original.......... In that vein, the reason I remain totally committed to Spirit and Truth Fellowship International is because I can find no one else with the “package” we have to offer, and I know the true heart with which we present it, as well as the liberating impact it has had on people around the world during the past 20 years. Would this be a different package than "the PFAL series". So no one else has the "package" to offer and this is what God inspires..........a "package" to help us get to him.........I thought the Jesus Christ was the whole "package". Yep, I don't know anyone who has the same "truth" that we offer..........(that sounds familiar) - oh but that's right, you are not like TWI at all. You will have to judge for yourself whether what we teach is sound doctrine, and whether we practice it in love. But you cannot do that from afar. I encourage you to dig into our work, Sorry, I do not want to go to church with you. That is established. and I exhort you to “stay tuned” and see if the hand of God is on us. Watch and see where He takes this ministry in the days ahead. I do hope that among the millions whose lives we hope to touch, we will be able to bless you, the only you God has. You sound just like a salesman for Jesus, "hey just stay tuned, and you too can have the abundant life ". Just send in $39.95 plus shipping and handling, and you too can live the lifestyle that I do. But wait, that's not all, with this special offer you too can own my lastest book, "The Perils of Prophecy for Anyone Else But Me", for only $9.95, and if you accept this one time offer, we will throw in a picture of the current CES Board members, for your spiritual enrichment and enjoyment. But wait, that's not all, for a limited time only, you too can be prophecied over by our own Karen Anne, whom I love and respect more than my own wife........But wait, theres more......... As to what is flying around cyberspace about me and my personal life, my email is jalces@aol.com and my home phone is 317-849-5707. If you know me and care about me, I’ll be glad to communicate with you. I will not, however, dialogue with anonymous people who lack the love and courage to identify themselves in interacting with me. As someone said before me, yeah this way I am control of the conversation....John, I have a personal prophecy for you: Take heed, you have become exactly like TWI, take heed, lest you end up working at UPS........

So it's no surprise the error of twi lives on...now in multiple organizations/churches and in many, many more lives than if twi had not splintered out... Exactly what I have been trying to say........very nicely put..... I guess I can see it so clearly in my mind's eye, I don't see how others cannot see it. This thread has really showed me how far I have come getting TWI junk out of my thoughts and emotions. I was pleasantly surprised at my own reaction to hearing these "prophecies" and the letter.........how I reacted strongly, from my heart to try to help protect the hearts of others from this junk.......... This thread has been a very important thread for alot of people I believe...........

........and just a reminder, this all started with your idol......VPW - the mind control

It has been in the 40's and 50's for the past couple of weeks here, but now it is 37 with a severe weather alert for tonight.........1-2 inches of snow, but I guess rain changing over to sleet then snow yuch!!

the open minded policy you have introduces you to demon upon demon. My closed mind makes it easier to fish out the darkness here and continue on. CK ck - you couldn't have made my case any better against the mind-control in TWI - look at what you just said, a closed mind filtering out every devil spirit thought as opposed to a free mind soaking in knowledge and learning and growing and maturing.......... it must be awful to live in that kind of fear, (I remember cuz I did it), a debil spirt under every rock or just around the corner waiting to pounce on you, BOO, as opposed to the glorius walk of liberty that the true God promises us........

Thank you all for listening and for your words of wisdom........highway, I think you hit the nail on the head..........and the feelings and emotions, isn't it great to feel them. Have thought about this subject for a long time because it seems that I always suppressed any type of feelings, good or bad, in TWI so as not to get "confronted". I am once again getting comfortable with being an emotional human being, like the rest of the world. Not a robot...........it's great these feelings that God gave us and there are appropriate times to feel them. Like outandabout's avatar............what a cute doggie..........I am now involved with animal welfare with a couple of different groups and have found good homes for several animals lately and it is a GOOD FEELING. (not to get off topic)