outofdafog

quote: Could you point out that rejoicing for me? I don't see it. Perhaps "rejoicing" was too hyperbolic for you. How about opportunistic? That better? I myself have not read on this thread where anybody is rejoicing over this fire and all are thankful that everyone is safe. But having lived through some of the most legalistic times of TWI, my mind immediately jumped to the reproof (ie: facemelting) that this entire fellowship may go through over this. So I will play the opportunist here and point out some of the utter idiocy that some of us went through in the late 90's with this outfit if something bad happened in our physical realm: *Whose vegetables in their pantry are not stored alphabetically that caused this to happen...... *There must be some homosexual debil spurt activity going on this fellowship that caused this to happen... *Who is harboring a secret pet that has caused this to happen.......... *This happened because you were not at the Thanksgiving Advanced whatever.......... *Most likely this happened because every class grad in this fellowship did not have their own subscription to the Way Ragazine........ *You did not submit all the different desserts to HQ that you were having at this dinner....... It could be that dang just happens sometimes. That is the way I see this. TWI would always try to fault the believer over "their believing" when negative things happen. I would be curious to see how this was handled now with the "kinder and gentler" approach that TWI claims to have. I think that makes it a worthwhile discussion to have (not rejoice over) an opportunity to see how crazy it got at times and what people were being accused of at the fellowship level, and what they had to go through with some of these self-agrandized ego maniac leaders that some of us had to put up with. Now I don't know how this was really handled with this guy's RC OR BC (or whatever they are called now). I just remember how it would have been handled a few years back. Sounds to me like potato got it right - they were the opportunist and turned it into a shameless plug for TWI.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2631281&page=1

Maybe this is a good clue for us when listening to these guys: watch and listen to what he or she preaches against the most........ie: LCM ...........Rev? Haggerty...............the latter having a red phone to the White House railing against allowing gays to marry in order to have the same rights legally as any other human being Leading the 30 million strong far right wing conservatives to vote against gay marriage and to vote republican......and yet we have republican politicians chasing young boys around the government buildings and the internet...........dems chasing young woman around the white house YIKES hypocrites..........all of them They sit in judgement of gays who just want to have the same rights and privileges as any other person, yet they themselves go the closet, not to pray, but to play............this is the exact reason I will never again follow a man and his religious movement.............ever I am definately rethinking my republican vote...........I want to say that I won't vote at all but I don't believe that is the solution either..........any good independents out there??? (sorry getting political)

hmmmmmm maybe he knows where the gold is????????

Sorry to miss your big day - was up in Chicago hanging out downtown - my daughter ran me all over like she thought I was 16, needed a few days to recoup hahahahaha.....that happens when you turn 50. Happiest of birthdays to you...........you have always been such a great blessing here at GS.......

Belle - Happy happy birthday..............thanks for all the great ways you contribute to the cafe. Love ya....foggie

Thank you all very much for your birthday wishes and back at ya Linda. Hadn't been here for a couple of weeks and missed these wonderful greetings.........it was "50" for me this time around. Spent the weekend in Chicago with my daughter who's birthday was the 20th. Love you guys. Thanks again.

WordWolf: I have wanted to mention to you about how much I enjoy your posts. When I read them I see a point by point examination of the thread. Step by step you logically proceed with your point of view. I like that because it is without all the emotional drama - instead it is logical, which at some point everyone has to look at in their life, and set the emotions aside for a minute in order to be able to grow past the hurt - that doesn't mean we ever forget..............

The High Way man: wow that makes so much sense. we have had this thread before and nobody has ever explained it more clearly.........kinda puts my heart to peace on the subject, because I also was one who thought Mrs.W should have stood up and spoke out........combined with the culture at her time, I can understand her decisions better...........my mother married a divorced man with 5 children during that time period and her parents (from the old country - Austria) disowned her. I know this bothered her tremendously over her lifetime, but she had 7 of us children with him and did not work and did not drive.........you get the picture.........not like it is for me today...our grandfather wouldn't have anything to do with us because his daughter married a divorced man.......... Today as a woman I wouldn't think twice about starting out on my own at anytime (and have) because I have a profession and a way to support my children and take care of myself. I don't have to put up with a husband that would cheat on me, or treat me badly verbally or physically........I have the choice today..............

Teen Wins: http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/16/cancer.teen.ap/index.html

See that's why I like this site so much - sky that is a really neat analogy

That's the way I am going to try to remember it. Great answer rascal. The other option for some is "thinking that a great majority of your adult life was totally wasted." Then trying to pick up and move on from there.

I don't know, they are sure having a great time over at the "Eyewitnnesses of 1976 etc" booth, tripping down memory lane. So does that mean that all the former Way "musicians" over there, that all their work and their songs were for naught, even though many are saying that was some of the best times of their lives or the best times of their ministry experience? For those of us that were in for 2 or 3 decades, to say that our entire past was just a big con is alot to swallow - maybe what keeps us sane now is knowing that the people that we all fondly remembering fellowshipping with is what it was all about. So in all honesty, how should a person remember that big a chunk of their life if not with some of the fond memories?

Main Entry: 1pol·i·cy Pronunciation: 'pä-l&-sE Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural -cies Usage: often attributive Etymology: Middle English policie government, policy, from Middle French police, policie -- more at POLICE 1 a : prudence or wisdom in the management of affairs b : management or procedure based primarily on material interest 2 a : a definite course or method of action selected from among alternatives and in light of given conditions to guide and determine present and future decisions b : a high-level overall plan embracing the general goals and acceptable procedures especially of a governmental body I guess the question is, do our combined personal experiences meet the definiton of a policy? Or are these just random events in the lives of different believers? At least in our area, we were required to pretty much ful-fill all corps requirements and policies and we weren't even corp. Sometimes when I read these threads, it seems the farther away from HQ you were, maybe there was less tendancy to take these as mandates, but we who were 20 minutes away, were the buffer zone for the man of god and were therefore required to follow an almost corp like program including shuffling our work and family lives to make sure the adversary didn't mess with him BOO.

outofdafog - 1985 to 2000 sidney ohio Oldies didn't see them put the squeeze on him. You don't have this unwritten policy in writing. Therefore, it didn't happen. They didn't make your brother sell his house. Your brother didn't sell his house. In fact, you don't have a brother. hahahahahahahahah hahahahahahahahah ....didn't see him put the squueze on him hahahahahahahahahahaha

That was also many years ago oldies - you are talkng wow years - different administration - hey thats what Cla**ette Roy*l told me when I asked her in the late 90's - why she no longer sang Precious Lord..........And geez I thought that there were only 7 administrations and we were in the 5th (Grace) Somehow a sixth sneaked in on me when I wasn't looking or something..............

You know rascal, I never thought of it that way.......gosh there is so much to unravel even today after 6 years out............I am just now seeing how TWI tried to make me so fearful of everything and everyone in the world..........the world was literally our enemy.........but it sure didn't start out that way for me.......

And you don't throw people out for having a mortgage, we had and still have a mortgage and no one ever implied that to us. I don't know what part of the country you lived in, but this was definately mandated in our area. The most obvious abuse of this "unwritten policy" regarding mortgages was during the time a new couple was coming to our fellowship. They were signed up for the class and we were awaiting "5" more to sign up for them to go through (or whatever number it as at that time). This couple owned a gorgeous house out a little ways in Anna Ohio. Just georgeous, with a hill going down their backyard and a great big jungle gym for their kids and an abundance of land.........and then the person who was "undersheperding them" began to talk to them about the NO DEBT POLICY of TWI. The NO MORTGAGE POLICY of TWI. Now mind you, the wife of the HFC who was responsible for getting their money............er, uh, oops I mean "undershepherding" this couple had gotten an inheritance when a family member died. They paid their car off, bought another one and paid their house off. These HFC's were NOW the shining example in our area of a couple DOING the Word when it came to the NO DEBT POLICY. Moving on, the couple with the gorgeous home, was finally convinced to sell it and take the money and buy another outright. What they ended up buying, with persuasion from HFC and his wife and the BC was an old "fixer-upper". Oh my God, this brick building was so run down that it was not even "habitable" at the time they bought it and when we the fellowship when over to oooo and ahhhhh over their great believing I was in total shock. I will never forget that day and what I was thinking and probably should have said at the time. Now I know this new couple was a grown couple, and should not have been persuaded by these TWI kooks to do this, but somehow it happened. (who here cannot say they were never schnookered at one point or another by TWI) The pressure from the top down towards us peons to apply the PRESENT SPEWTH was incredible. As far as being booted out for not following these "unwritten policies" you knew that it was coming down the pike the longer you questioned, bucked and rebelled. If you made it through your first or second "face-melting" and got called in for a third one, you better bet you are going to be told to pack up and get out of the "Promised Land of the Prevailing Word" tent city. You guys that were around late 90's early 2000's knew that there was to be no murmurings in the tents against TWI or leadership. We were taught that if one of us screwed up in the promised land, then that could affect or kill another believer. I heard this teaching in a STS - hah no guilt there huh? I don't remember the scripture, but it was in the old testament and we were taught that it applied to us because we were the spiritual ones allowed into the "Promised Land of the Prevailing Word." They compared our spiritual understanding to being in the physical realities of the Promised Land in the old testament. If it wasn't said out right (and I don't recall one way or the other), it was HEAVILY IMPLIED during that STS and other meetings to follow after LCM announced one night that we had truly indeed "ARRIVED" in the Promised Land of the Prevailing Word. It was a much more intense commitment that everybody in the ministry was supposed to make. It didn't have to be written down because we lived it everyday. Back to the couple who sold their house.......they never took the class.........and were really really really ....ed off when they walked away from fellowship......... I wonder if TWI got 10 or 15% of the money that this naive couple got off of selling their beautiful home and land. And yes one was expected to tithe just as soon as they got that check from selling their homes.

I'm sure the passengers on the Titanic had some wonderful moments during their cruise, but somehow I'll bet that that wasn't the focus of much of their conversations about their trip afterwards... But just like some of us, those passengers didn't know how the trip would end......... I agree, it was the people that we were with that made it special.......I just don't see how you could not remember the sweet fellowship of others. My most fondest memories are my couple years in NC with Way Marketing - a part of my youth to remember - and yes, same here, if it hadn't been for the love-bombing, I may have committed suicide when I was 18......................but all of a sudden these people were there and life became worth living again.........I don't understand the logic of it, that is why I always feel that my participation in this cult, in the early years, was God-driven (even though that doesn't make any sense does it?)........(that God would introduce a yearing child to him thrugh a cult) that's what still makes it very confusing for me even now....when I read the threads....."Was it once good and not good just now" or has it always been "the bad cult"......... Because I do have good memories too....... These are things I am still trying to unravel

Outofdafog, you're talking apples and oranges. Parents teaching their children to tithe, giving them the tithing money and telling them to, is entirely different than an adult individual requirement to tithe. What choice do they have? The bible says they should obey their parents. They are also exonerated from personal responsibility, since they must obey their parents. What happens if they decline? They can't. I am sorry, I guess I wasn't very clear oldies, it wasn't the children ABS'ing that bothered me, it was including it on the blue form for a 6 year old. That was a little over the top for me. Maybe something that wouldn't have bothered you, but coupled with all the other mandates that kept coming down the pike as present spewth and all of the other control tactics they used, it did bother me that they wanted to write down what a 6 year old abs'd. And there was definately a mandate to tithe the 15% - it was drilled into us every STS -nearly every fellowship and we were definately told that failure to do so would result in God's hand of blessing being removed from the believer as well as their family, their property etc. Now I can say I am an eye-witness to that, but of course if you don't want to believe that is your privilege. Out of curiosity, what do you think of the mandate for every "grad" to purchase their own STS tape and magazine, no matter how many were in your household? Do you think that was over the top to have 5 STS tapes and 5 magazines in every home or however many according to the amount of "grads" in your family. Like people couldn't share them or together as a family listen to them. It is so obvious to me that that was to sell their product and make more money off Joe Believer.

I can attest to the financial cohersion that was prevelent in the late 90's going into 2001. Also, the control and manipulation that leadership had over us twiglets back then. I call us "twiglets" because that is how they viewed and treated us, nothing more than a means to their financial end, no love or caring for our feelings, our children, our possessions. How many stories you want of their control and manipulation toward the flock - I myself could tell many many in all different areas of my life. But since this is about TWI tithing policy: In our fellowship, my 6 year old and 13 year old were required to tithe also. Shortly after that mandate came down, it was required in our fellowship that they put their change in an envelope with their name on it. Their names were put down on the blue form sent to HQ - I know because I wrote the names down on the blue form. I'm sorry, but I thought this was just over the top a little. I began to rebel in my mind, but then tried to justify it to myself, but it never set right. My young teen daughter had just taken the new WAP class and since she was now a "grad" she had to have her own subscriptions to tapes, magazines etc. So I was paying double for everything they expected people to purchase from the bookstore. I knew one family with a single mom with three teenagers that had to buy 4 sets of tapes and magazines subscriptions (as I am sure others can attest to or probably already have on this forum). Now you really want me to believe that it was "present spewth" that God wanted everyone to have their own copy so they could prevail in the Promised Land, or is it more common sense to say that they were "fleecing the flock". I began to rebel in my mind some more, tried to justify it to myself but it just never set right. There is more..........................It took me finally rebelling in my mind and saying "enough is enough". How much more does the true God have to show me in so many different areas of my life that I finally saw the con.

medic - hahahahahaha that was a good one

Excie - I luv ya girl - have a terrific day.

Well my daughter and I went to the viewing tonight. Closed casket. Very tragic for the grown children she had left behind - they are still in shock especially that the police don't tell them anything. The oldest daughter looked like she would break down at any second. Nothing new on the case. The cops are holding it very close to the vest. Especially tragic is her oldest son Matthew who found his mother inside her home that morning, when Perkins asked him to go and try to get ahold of his mother because she was supposed to be in at 9 am sat morning. He made the 911 call and you can google if you would want to hear it. But some people in town are saying that the police suspect him but I just ain't seeing that. Funny but about this time you could see some folks talking in little groups and I asked my daughter what they were talking about. My 16 year old said that as far as she was concerned that they were gossiping and she didn't think that was the proper place to do it. (You know, our kids just grow up one day and become so smart and we become so proud) Anyhow, I was able to share with him and his fiance who is pregnant with Mindi's first grandchild. I told them about a time 3 weeks ago that I had had a really neat conversation with their mom. My daughter had sliced her finger at work requiring stitches and Mindi took care of her till she got to the hospital. I took over at the hospital and then we went back to Perkins to sign her out of the shift and sign any papers for workman's comp. I noticed at that time that all the kids called her MaMa Mindi. She was a stern "mama" when she had to be, but she could be very forgiving of the kids when they made their mistakes and she just had a great rapport with the kids. The kids respected her, you could tell. They knew how far they could push it with her too. Anyways, what I told the children about was the last conversation I had with their mom. She told me that she was at a point in life where she was thrilled to have all her grown children around and how much she looked forward to the next few years of grandchildren. They had helped her to get away from a very abusive husband and they wanted their mom with them. I wanted to make some kind of statement to them that no matter what, she was thrilled to think of the future with her children and grandchildren. The pregnant little gal cried and hugged me and said that they were so thankful that I shared that with them. I guess I wanted them to know how important they were to their mom. I hope I said the right thing to express that. They appeared to be really blessed to know that. Like a special memory to bring out some day and think about during their greiving.................

Yep we made the news in Dayton 3 times in 10 days with a violent crime. This is highly unusual. I mean we get our share of drugs, drug related petty crimes, and domestic violence. Thank you for all of your kind words - it is nice to have a place to feel safe to share. They don't think it was a past employee - someone maybe closer. Although they say they have not ruled anything out. Rumor is rampant and theories and speculations abound. They are waiting for the Montgomery County Coroner to release his report. The main thing I notice with my daughter the past couple of nights is her restlessness and unable to sleep. Can't even imagine what must be going through her mind. She is sleeping now early in the evening because she doesn't sleep at night. I have to keep the door to my room open and she finds it difficult to stay alone while I work. She has had to work since then and the entire place is just bummed. But we are working through it. She wants to be by mom all the time. I like that though I feel the same way, I want to have her with me at all times.