outofdafog

When I read her post, I took it in the context that some of those who were willing were the ones who cried rape perhaps because they felt scorned...... Maybe they wanted more in a relationship with LCM or another MOG and when LCM or another MOG moved on they felt scorned or rejected. Thus perhaps they jumped on the band wagon of sexual abuse and cried foul when they had freely availed themselves to the MOG. Now I don't know if any of that is true, and I personally am not inferring that anyone did that, that is just what I took from reading sogwaps thread.

wow oeno..........you are quite a handsome feller what a neat reunion that must have been.........I sure would like to hook up sometimes with folks I knew from my way past...........don't see many though or know where many are..........enjoy

oh I love that picture oilfield medic.............i use it as a screen saver and wallpaper sometimes.... god job over there!!

dinky dippin hiney hahahahahahahahah this is fun

" think this thread is heading in a bad direction, in that dragging out posts from other threads, without the complete context leaves" People drag out quotes from every thread on the forum............... Everyone who has been following this thread knows "the context" in which the entire subject of sexual abuse on both sides has been dissected. And I posted in context to what pawtucket posted...............

For me it was the self-righteous indignation that some posters shared toward sogwap after her comments - like they had never sinned or fallen short. satori stated it best: Sogwap's story was not so unusual. It has nothing to do with sex, adultery or promiscuity. It has to do with a not-so-unique believer's vulnerability, and the need to be loved and accepted and validated, and with finding the illusion of those things in the false fulfillment of Wierwille's promises, promises he read to her (and us) from the bible. Perhaps she didn't state it right in some poster's opinions, but maybe, just maybe she was quite nervous about posting what she posted, maybe, just maybe very emotional and maybe, just maybe she could have clarified what she meant if she had been able to continue without attacks such as: You don't know what damage you did, dear. There were those of us who had no interest whatsoever in sleeping with married men. I don't care WHO THEY WERE. As a matter of fact, there were those of us who had no interest in sleeping with single men. I have to confess, sogwap, I am pretty upset and extremely mad. It was women like you that made some of us targets for the predators in the way who had absolutely no morals. It was women like you, that made men assume every female was up for grabs. Literally. I just can't believe that's for real.... women like that..... Sigh...just the ammo twi fan club members needed to conveniently dismiss the pain and damage inflicted on so many many other young girls who WERE drugged and assaulted ..... a chance to support their own pet theories Just to quote a few....... Not to hurt anyone's feelings here but it was not "women like this" that caused the sexual abuse to take place in TWI - it was the unchecked sick doctrine among the MOGS and wannabe MOGS that assumed that all the women in the kingdom belonged to the king. Is it the child's fault in school if the teacher comes on to them and they have a sexual relationship. No it is the one that SHOULD KNOW BETTER and draw the bounderies and maintain the boundaries. That is the responsibility you have when you have the privilege of being someone overseeing a "flock" whether religious or otherwise. Mark O'Malley and many others said it best - the doctor, the counselor, the minister, the Pope.......anyone in the position to have vulnerable people under their care are the ones that should be held accountable.

Linda LOL that is really a good line - thanks for perking me back up

oh my gosh .... these stories are so sad ......... sudo, I am weeping as I read that.......so sorry for your losses.......i am a pet lover and had to have my cat Ralph put down.......and remember putting a couple childhood pets down after years of them being part of the family..... sorry have to go blow my nose and fix my face ...... it is nice though to be able to feel my feelings about these things and not shut them down like oh well they were just animals or dogs.......or not be allowed to have feelings about animals (TWI style) some people don't understand......

Thanks Belle..............you truly are a southern lady :)

I would love for some of you earlier outies to have been at some of the STS that we went too. You would have been astounded at the yelling and spewing from the stage. Something to experience - you would not have thought that it was the same ministry that you had been involved with. As a matter of fact, it wasn't the same. And they flaunted that, the new and improved ministry. The true household of God. I remember when I finally got to speak with a HFC about going back to fellowship, it was a Sunday morning. After my "interview" to see if I was "worthy" to come back (I had to swear that I never had bad mouthed the ministry during the fog years - which I hadn't) he said that I might as well jump right back in and attend STS that day. From that point on my life was booked solid with ministry events. Anyways, my first STS back was LCM spewing hate about homosexuals and those who were currently having their "evil deeds exposed" by their loving "confrontations". Everything was about confronting everyone. This was an open service. Yet, I continued to go back. I thought I was doing the best thing for my oldest daughter (about 16 at the time I guess). I wanted her to take the PFAL class. Just a week or so later, my HFC insisted I listen to the tape about the WOW program being cancelled and the sex orgies that had gone on during the Rock almost to give me a background of why the minstry had gotten to the confrontation phase. It made sense at the time. In my mind I was still thinking of the loving TWI that I had been a part of. That was my mind set. That is why I never bad mouthed during the fog years. I didn't understand enough of what was going on. It took me awhile in TWI2 for some reason to see the hatred but it was there (at least on LCM's part). I remember that first service back and LCM started to go off. My "new" HFC was looking at me periodically to see how I was reacting to this. My 16 year old was there too. That was part of being able to go back. I had to commit to her being a part of everything because it was cohesive family units that they wanted in this new and improved ministry. I was taken aback at first, but after awhile it seemed like he was being so bold and spritual and everyone was laughing and applauding when he spewed this stuff. Now looking back I don't understand why I would stay. I think my mind was still thinking that this was the Way that I knew and loved. I wish I could understand and explain to you why I stayed. I can't. But as the months went by, I started to think that things just weren't right. The biggest thing that stuck out at me was the Worship of the leaders This is what ultimately and finally got to me and made me sick. I think I was actually relieved when I was marked and avoided after almost three years. I just could not handle the MOG worship. Lord listen to me go on, uh what was the question again Belle?..........oh that's right, yes there was hate in LCM...........

rickyg - what's your deal with Belle - i think she has some very insightful posts - (belle aren't you fairly a new outie - past couple of years or so?) just curious because you keep bringing her name up in this thread - Back when I was in TWI and TWI2 it was always about the history of the ministry - god how many times we had to go to annual events and go over to the BRC and look at old pictures and magazines of the past and the founders - ad nauseum - the history and past of the ministry was really important at that time - guess now since the past is a little sordid, we don't want to go there.... If they were honestly interested in bringing folks back, there should be some type of explanation for everything that has gone on for the past couple of decades........hey even Jimmy Swaggart got up on stage and cried and apologized....regardless of what you think of Swaggart......that took guts. I just think you can't build a good house on a rocky and shifting (shifty ) foundation. I went to a church once between my time in TWI and TWI2 - apparently the pastor was having an extra maritial affair - I had no idea - but there he was on that Sunday morning and told everyone about it and asked for their forgiveness.....that took guts.......I had never seen anything like that.......there were consequences - he was relieved of his position.......

"I know when I do I am mostly ignored,Gs has its own little click,so be it.I came here with alot of questions" I feel the same way alot of times frank. There is definately a "click" here. It is almost like they go out of their way to post to each other and talk around anybody else who has input into a thread. But I am not hear to join a club anyway, so I just still post and hope maybe something I say or post can help someone make an informed decision. I no longer need validation from some group of people. Also I think alot of the posters here know each other outside of the forums and talk to each other alot so it is a little more personal for them when they post.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha And Roy - that s funny

but rather, learning compassion and how to see the different experiences and descriptions of their experiences for what they are and having a heart to help or comfort them instead of attacking them and/or engaging in debates about terminology. That's holding onto their position no matter what....not really a "get over it" thing, imo. Exactly Belle ........

Thanks for bringing this up Belle, I have been wanting to post a little about this type of thing. Probably alot of what I might share has been shared here. I will just try to put it in the perspective that I see it (because I can't speak for anyone else nor would I ever want to or try to). As any other world wide web forum, people come and go everyday. This site moves along pretty fast. There are also "regulars" as on any forum. Alot of people here are "over it" and stay in the hopes that they can share some meaningful experiences that will help others. Others here are working toward being able to get "over it". Others are watching from the sidelines wanting to get "over it" or wondering "what is there to "get over". This list is limited as there are a vast spectrum of people and experiences here. The ones who say "get over it" do not bother me as much as the regular ones on this board who jump on someone new the minute they post something on this forum. It is like we want new people to come and post and share their experiences and be set free from these false prophets, but the minute they come they are attacked. If they don't agree with the majority of opinions here that TWI was horrible, (and yes I understand this is an ex-twi site) they are blasted and are afraid to come back. I know that even after posting on Waydale and this site for 6 years that I am still sometimes fearful of posting an opinion that may go against the tide of the thread. The way some of the regulars thrash each other, I would be afraid to step in too. I love honest debate, but I don't think it has to degrade to name calling and paranoia conspiracy theories. Another thing that irks me is the Grammar Police who feel it their civic duty to inform a poster who posts for the first time that there thread is not in the right place. Good lord, leave that to the monitors of the site to decide. And we can at least give it a little time before we start calling them the "waygb". (I do not question that the WayGB exists) But calling or questioning whether a new poster is Waygb within 24 hours or so is just paranoid in my opinion, unless of course they agree with the common belief of the most outspoken regulars here. Paranoia is not a healthy mind set. Other people on the outside see this. Could be why they see a need to say "just get over it". I often wonder how many people lurkng would love to post, but are fearful of being raked over the coal by either camp (and yes you can clearly see the camps if you watch from the sidelines). I would imagine that is just human nature though. Lately the tone of this forum has been pretty harsh and angry - I know I have watched from the sidelines of alot of threads so I have seen the ebb and flow of the different emotions here and the strong beliefs on either side. Would be nice if the waters were a little calmer sometimes, so that those first timers getting in the pool could just step in.........without fear..........since that is where alot of them are coming from to begin with.......fear. I am just here to hope that maybe something I say in a thread helps them in any little way. Hopefully something I say could be a little thought provoking and we could all have a healthy honest debate where new folks feel they could come and start their healing process........ I don't know if this really has anything to do with "getting over it" or not, just struck me as a very good post to lend my thoughts. And these just are my thoughts as a whole not directed to anyone in particular. Maybe just trying to see the other side of the coin. Part of the healing process at least for me.........that doesn't mean I am making excuses for anyone who was abusive to the flock in any way shape or form. I am not so naive as to not understand that there is such a thing as a "troll" on an internet site also. Just some thoughts. Hope I put it in the right section........

There you go Roy - I can see them standing at the Bema in their Armani suits, eyes down, shuffling and for the first time in some of their lives, these TWI leaders speechless. If they are at the Bema at all :unsure:

Garth and Belle - thanks for that info - appreciate your responses because I haven't really delved into this history and it is quite fascinating. He was totally mad wasn't he?

I am a little confused. Was it 6 million jews that supposedly died, or 6 million people from all religions all over Europe that were held in the camps? One of the chapters on those reel to reel pictures implies that many different nationalities and religions were held in these camps and received the exact same type of treatment.

I don't either, but I wonder how it feels for him to be under such a cloud of "genuine spiritual suspicion". Guess you do reap what you sow. Wonder if Michelangelo thought the original sin was a lesbian relationship between woman and the serpent. Strange how someone found this picture for the class. Do you think he found the pic first and then developed the doctrine, or looked for ways after to support this doctrine?

If you look real close it looks like an angel, you can see a partial wing on the left. Pink? Now thats uniques for an angel outfit. And I got reproved for bringing a new gal to STS who had a notebok with little cherubs on it it. Jeesh.

I have heard his rantings on this subject while sitting in the auditorium at a STS. Yeah he was angry then too. More than just corps are present at a STS. His hatred for homosexual people was well known throughout the 90's.

My uncle who is in his 80's told us that his unit was one that went in to liberate the Auswitch concentration camp. He was very reserved about telling us about the horrible conditions the soldiers found when they went in there. He didn't like to talk about it. Doesn't sound like a myth to me.

Themex, I believe he and Craig have been acquaintances for a few years now and he just recently discovered that his friend was LCM, a disgraced cult leader. I think I would be a little interested if I was him, because as stated in his post, he wasn't sure how this would all fit in with their friendship now. I think I would be interested in our experiences with him if I were in his shoes. Just an observation.

Speaking of LDS - I worked for a while in California with a woman whose family was mormon. Her husband was one of the air traffic controllers that was fired by Raegan. She showed me the basement of their home and there was a one year supply of food and essentials stored there. She explained that this was part of their religion to prepare for the "lean" times and it brought a lot of peace to her to know they had all this. I was quite impressed. It wasn't like they were stockpiling for some communist take over or over throw of the government or Y2K or anything. There needs were met until her hubby could find another job. They had like 3 kids or something. Again, I was impressed in their planning ahead.

Freud (if that's your real name) I understand your reasons for being here and I appreciate it. So many of us were kept in the dark for so long and manipulated and micro-managed and lied to and brow beaten. The truly interesting analysis of all this would be to find out why some of us put up with it and stayed. And why years later we are still talking about it. What does that say about us?? That ought to show you that our emotional investment in this outfit was deep and soul touching for some. Hence the spectrum of reaction. Bear with us. For me it has always been the curtain being pulled away by Toto and finding out that the "wizard" was just a man. Not to speak for anyone else, but I think that is how alot of folks (I didn't say everyone) here feel. We were "duped" "conned" "snookered" "humiliated" "threatened" etc etc (the list could go on). There is a myriad of reactions to hear that "the wizard" appears to be having some bad days. Some would be happy and bask in his misery, others will feel compassion and sorrow, others could care less, others could and did see him for what he truly was and walked away and on and on and on............year after year after year.........perhaps that helps you to understand the strong reaction here........ I for one hope you could continue to share............it helps for us to try and understand...........