outofdafog

I really think you are stretching what Freud was saying a bit. I do not think that he tried to come off that way. He stated that these are his personal observations. I think we are getting a little paranoid a little too quickly. May be we have been at this sight for too long.

A friend of mine stopped in my office the other day to tell me that his wife had left him over the weekend and went out of state. She took the car and every bit of the money in the bank except $10.00. When she left she told him that she would be back in about an hour..........but she was in Oklahoma by the following day. He was stunned and in shock. I knew that somehow I should help him. Now TWI would have taught that in order to overcome this he should take the class and tithe from that $10.00. Instead, I got a couple of other folks together and we combined our different resources to provide him with some cash and food and plans to be able to get some money together in the near future. I just knew in my heart that this was the right thing to do with any abundance that I might have in my life. Everyone lovingly chipped in and his heart became more at peace as the week went by. To me this is tithing and sharing of abundance. This would have been my idea of a self sustaining fellowship also, what fellowship was like before all the money that was shared was directed to be funneled back to HQ. I am not going to help buy any preachers armani suits, or fancy houses and cars anymore. I just did what I felt God would want me to do in this situation, not looking for any reward, just helping a fellow human being who was in need at the time. This situation if told to leadership in the 90's would have brought on a verbal assault on how he would need to take the class blah blah blah blah.

WD - when I read that part of POP I thought the same thing...........seems prophetic........which always gets me in that thought mode of was VPW always bad or did he just turn bad.......I go back and forth on that as I read different posts........he seemed to understand that this was going to happen.........I know another thread......but thanks for posting that because that is exactly how it came down in the 90's......was there and experienced it..........

"I'd have to think the twi lawyers were smart enough to couch any admission like that in phrasing like "Even if said allegations were true ... blah blah ..." You would think. It would be interesting to know how it was phrased exactly.

You said," Interestingly enough, TWI's attorneys allege the Peelers knew or should have known they were being conned from the beginning!" So let me see if I got this right for some who are still in or thinking about bolting out the door. TWI's own attorneys admit that they (The Peelers) were being conned from the beginning. He (said attorney) is using this as a defense. There you have it folks, from the mouth of TWI, via their attorney who represents what they say and are - YOU ARE BEING CONNED AND HAVE BEEN FROM THE BEGINNING. Unbelievable

Thinking about the Peeler's today and wishing them the best. I believe this is scheduled for today.

These devil spirit categories; lustful and sensual, spritely, devious etc, who made these up? I never read anywhere in the bible where these spirits are named such? Another Martinfail "dividing of the Word" or had VPW ever taught this? Was this taught to the corps previous to the AOS production?

Martindale made a big to-do about it. Of course, now that the MOG was upset about it, everybody else was too. Somewhere there is a teaching tape where he went on and on about this. Was this about the time that he decided to cancel the WOW program and the Rock?

"They were praising him and holding him up as an example of positive believing and goal attainment personified. Yet before this guy was on the scene, the Limb guy was telling people not to go to college , that it was "of the world and therefore of the devil". Doesn't make sense does it ?" Fast forward to the late 90's and the revelation had changed apparently, because that was the big deal. Me thinks "the present spewth" changed because LCM's daughter was of college age and he had to justify her going. We heard alot about that and how the kids should all go to college at the same place if possible (I don't know if the "if possible" was a mandate or not. Also, it should be done without going into DEBT. Does that mean our ABS paid for his daughters college education? Was he able to pay in full without going into debt. I don't see any other way it could have been paid for. Nothing against her at all, that whole deals smells a little to me though. We currently pay $322.00 per month for my daughter's loans. I didn't feel one bit bad about that debt. That seemed more like an investment to me. In my daughters future. Boy that present truth was really convenient for LCM. New revelation every day to suit his purpose.

that whole devil spirit thing taught people to be paranoid and afraid . What good does it to be aware or know their names? During the nineties, this is pretty much always what was emphasised. A boogy man in every contrary thought you might have about the Way, a debil sprite hiding around every corner waiting to jump out and say boo! Death to you and those you love if you didn't whole heartedly believe and follow the Trustees. Maimings and accidents upon those who didn't travel 2 X 2 or didn't fill in their weekly activity reports or failed to follow what they had written down. And i don't think I am over dramatizing here..........it was all about FEAR Very devilish............. justloafing...............and hey I thought old loyboy was getting some kind of new revelation or something. thanks for that little tidbit..........

Does anyone remember at the Advanced Class at HQ around 2000-2001 (can't remember the year) where LCM spoke about different old sayings? For example: a little birdie told me - this was a devil spirit speaking in your ear (or something to that affect) We had to go to our study groups and make a list of all these old sayings and then we could see how devilish they were. Then he was going to compile the lists and give them out that night or something. Anyways, this never happened. Maybe somebody told him "he was off his rocker" or something.

Unless..........The Way makes him quit his job.........kinda joking here, but then again not really.......... I had a believer working for me and the day after I got marked and avoided he called me on the phone at work and just quit on the spot, leaving me in a pretty good bind. This was a grown man with a family to support and he was a fellowship coordinator. I too hope your new job goes well and things are good with your coworker

"The key is not to confuse the good times of youth as being the result of TWI." Never thought about it like that, but that makes a lot of sense. Because when I think about that sometimes it causes me to long for those days again in the ministry, but maybe it is just a longing for my youth. Lord knows, ministry or not, I would never stay in a restaurant that late now, lordy I am in bed by 9:00 hahaha. I read POP shortly after I got onto Waydale, and read it again for the first time the past couple of days. Oh my God, can you say "ALL ABOUT ME". There just wasn't anybody in Europe that could do anything right cept old CG. Had to do everything himself. I am suprised he didn't say Barbar* couldn't change a diaper right, with mathematical exactness and scientific precision, therefore he had to take care of the baby too. It makes me sick to listen to him treat and act like VPW was some sorta great spiritual being whose final words had to be written down and preserved for eternity, and to know what he was capable of and did to some of the sweetest and trusting gals in the ministry. I am sorry, if it had just been a one time slip, I guess we could all understand, but because of eye witness testimony (the women who were abused), it was a systematic, sick, twisted plan to fulfill his own lusts. How disgusting.

gosh diazbro..........you make me miss the good old days.......the fellowships in my areas for the first 5-10 years were so sweet and I always looked forward to going to them..........then coffee and dessert at a restaurant later, share the Word with the waitress or a customer..........laught til midnight, get home and go to sleep........those were some of my most favorite nights..............or maybe it's cuz those were some of my most youthful days.........Gosh we had some great times the couple years I was down in North Carolina......any of you way marketing folks still out there remember all the good times.....????? I know you are here Tom The nineties became more like a NIGHTMARE.

"And call no man your father upon the earth, for one is your Father, which is in heaven..... Matthew 23:9 Settles it for me......what Jesus said.

I am thinking that during the 70's (which was the hippie, anti-establishment era) there were alot of these "home based fellowships" around. It was yet another way of striking at the establishment and people doing their own thing to rebel against the established churches and dogma. I know I liked the home based fellowships because I was "free" from some of the rigid standards taught in churches. This is what initially attracted me to TWI. I had attended a couple of others though prior to my involvement - I even moved into a house and lived with some "believers" and that became rather rigid. Kinda like a Way Home, it was not to my liking and shortly thereafter was witnessed to by someone and started going to twig. This was in the early 70's. I liked the "free" atmosphere.

Churches have caught up with TWI - thats silly. I can't honestly say what alot of other churches teach on the different subjects because for most of my adult life I attended TWI. We were conditioned to believe what TWI wanted us to believe about other churches. Thats a pretty blanket statement to make if you haven't attended all the different churches and listened to their doctrine or read thier materials. How can you possibly know what "all" churches taught. Is that "all without exception or all "without distinction"? Not trying to be a smart-foot, just curious how you could know so much about other churches. I went to a couple different home fellowships before I hooked up with TWI in 1975. And heard of many more when witnessing to others.

What ever happened to just ministering to that individual with the Bible? And what good are you doing folks by having your nose buried in a a research book?

Funny, they don't practice what they preach. In TWI today, you have to be righteous in their eyes to be allowed to participate. This is done by repetitive, mind numbing, works of the flesh. By the time we were booted, they were down to recording what my 10 year old was depositing in the way of change into the horn of plenty. Her name and how much all sent to HQ on the old blue form.

I found Waydale when the Allen lawsuit was just starting to go forward. I was going to testify at the trial and had already been deposed by the Way's attorneys and also met Paul and Fern Allen at my home with their attorneys from California. A couple of other witnesses were there also. The Allen's attorney's had successfully brought charges against other religious organizations or "cults" before. When we all met with the attorneys there did not seem to be an air of "this is all about the money". It was more about pulling the curtain open so that the man behind that curtain could be exposed. I am not so silly as to think that these attorneys did not have a financial stake in the outcome. I am sure the Allen's were aware of that too. Duh. That's how attorney's get paid. In no way shape or form did I feel abused or used by the Allens when they opted to settle, and we don't know which side made the offer, so alot of that is speculation. Nor do we know all the whys and wherefores of why it settled out of court. Nor did I feel it my business to ask. They asked me to speak honestly about those things that I experienced FIRST HAND in TWI during my involvement. One of the reasons that Paul asked me to do the trial in the first place was he felt that my postings on Waydale were fair and informative. He didn't just want witness that would agree with him about everything just because he said it was so. He wanted fair and accurate testimony. There were times when I even negated a posting or two on the site because the posters were passing rumor or inaccurate facts. Paul and his wife had a lot of integrity to me, and I have heard before this line of thinking from people living vicariously through the Allen's lawsuit. It was first and foremost about them, Fern in particular, but what they did was help a whole lot of people in the process. What they did or didn't do with the money is no concern of mine. I opted to help when asked.

I don't know if there was a consious decision to make us into corp, but I know the commitment that was demanded of us was of the that of the caliber of "the faithful remnant". As a matter of fact I felt that there was less of a gap between the Way Corps and Joe believer at first. Everyone in the ministry was required to be of one mind, insediously brought about by endless "works of the flesh". Until, some of these corps people began to grow egos bigger than their brains and those of us who spoke up were "treacherous" to others in the land of milk and honey. We were to be "whipped" into shape. As Oakspear said, it insideously crept in over a period of time. The frog in the boiling water analogy says it just right. We were taught at at least one STS that any "murmurings" in the tents at night of those in the Promised Land, against leadership, could cause others in the "camp" to have calamity brought upon them. Or something to that affect. They used an old testament story to convey that message. Little bit of mind control there wouldn't you say? And no oldies, I didn't freely avail myself after awhile. At first I did, as I too went back in the 90's after not fellowshipping with them for a while due to the fog years. I didn't take any side during the fog years - my heart was just broken over how the ministry had been fractured by POP and VPW's death. I just walked away and did my thing. I still believed in the precepts though and endeavored to apply them in my life. Then I asked to come back because I wanted my teenager to take PFAL because my memories of TWI were quite fond. It wasn't long after that that I realized things were real different there. I came back just as the last class of WAP was being given for the grads of the ministry. Before it would be open to new folks. They "allowed" my daughter to take it also even though she had not had PFAL. After awhile, I stayed because of FEAR due to the erroneous teachings that began to become more prevalant and prevelant. Slowly grace was replaced with law - and love was replaced with fear and oppression and depression. We suppressed our emotions, our intellect, our reasoning, our own judgement, our own thoughts and any ability for God to work in us. It was all what came down from the BOT that we were to believe, feel, do etc. I guess I am saying these things because I just finished reading the court records on the Peeler case. Rosiefox Riverpuke is such a liar. She claims several things in that court record that I know for a fact are lies. Q: paraphrased: What does the Way teach their followers about tithing? A: paraphrased: It teaches them to give freely. Tithe is the minimum amount according to God's Word and if they share more than that is fine. Excuse me while I wipe the 15% of spittle off of my face here in the front row of the auditorium at a STS. Q: paraphrased: Is being out of debt a requirement for anything? A: paraphrased: No. Q: paraphrased: How about if you want to be leadership? A: Yes, if you want to be a leader you must be debt free. HUH?? I thought there is no debt requirement for anything in the ministry. Q: paraphrased: But in terms of followers, if I am a follower and want to mortgage a big house, I can do that? A: paraphrased: Yes. Q: paraphrased: Does the Way monitor the amount of contribution if the follower is giving 10%? A: paraphrased: No Other statements paraphrased: *No one was ever required to go to fellowship *Its not that they must attend, it is that they may attend a fellowship. *Not necessary to attend all the classes to be a state coordinator. Twice she referred in her testimony to the way being a "church". Convenient for them sometimes I am guessing.

Chas LMAO - can you say "pi**ed off husbands?" hahahaha

Not to try and speak for templelady but I think she is referring to LCM and the others protecting a pedophile by moving him from Ohio to Alaska where he continued to abuse children. He was caught and tried for it in Alaska. If they had handled this properly with the police in Ohio, he would not have been in Alaska to molest any children there. Instead, they wanted to keep it "in the household" and sounds like they sent this guy as far away from HQ as they could. But he got busted there. Do I have that right temple lady?

I took a new person to a STS and after the service a Way Corps member came up to me and told me that I needed to tell her not to bring her notebook into the auditorium anymore because it had little pink cherubs (angels) on the outside of it. They give off devilish vibes or something to that effect. True story. Same girl during her very first fellowship, was pulled off to the side afterwards and reproved by the asst. HFC's wife because she closed her bible at the end of the teaching before the person teaching had closed his. What fruit loops!

Very well said diazbro....