outofdafog

"people wanted leaders they wanted others to control and decide till they got enough to decide for themselves what will work for their life. Maybe it works for some still . How is it wrong if it works for you ? I do not know what their motive is or was for such a detailed scedule of a persons life but I do know it may be because people wnated it asked for it and the leaders did it in love." I am going to guess mj that you were never a part of TWI2. All was fear motivation, not love. True godly love had gone out the door during this period of time. We were in the "Promised Land" of the prevailing word. You couldn't have any shortcomings or flaws or faults because this could bring the entire household down, just as in the OT, one unbelieving believer was the reasons for certain believers who were killed back then. You did not want to be the one believer who caused the death of others in the Promise Land of the Prevailing Word. And you were to only witness, pretty much to the middle class (that's where the ABS comes in). The word was over the world so JoeBum didn't need to hear it. (literal translation according to usage: Joebum had no money so don't witness to him) Apparently everyone in the world had been witnessed to and accepted or rejected PFAL (LCM's way) This is purely fear motivation, and my children and myself had been taught, if you leave the Way, you will be a greasespot by midnight. My children were terrified when they found out we had been marked and avoided. I am glad I finally took my responsibilities as a mother seriously, and got my kid's out of there. Yes I am the final repsponsible person, but our minds were really messed up, after being in so long 1975-2002, so it wasn't as easy as you are making it out to be. You didn't JUST SAY NO and move on your merry way in TWI2. --> outofdafog Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

CC - "So it always struck me as, well....JUST PLAIN WRONG when LCM insisted that Eve (who was flesh) could have literally had sex with The Devil (who was spirit)." Never thought of it that way Cherished, makes alot of sense now though. outofdafog Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

Oh and by the way, I got up and walked out on them and then was marked and avoided. outofdafog Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

It wasn't the 3X 5 cards out on the field. But our "fellowship coordinators" kept files in TWI2 on each family and person in their fellowship. Does anyone who is still in remember this or have they put this aside now? I know when I had my "counseling session" with TC and BC that this file was brought out listing my "sins" and what not. I never actually got to read my file, but they had it out and read from it. outofdafog Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

"...is that I am NOT against the person who is gay, but I AM against the fact that more and more "rights" are being demanded." This just sounds very condescending and smug....perhaps you clarified it in your other post, but it sounds like, you believe it is okay to be homosexual, but hey don't ask for equal rights. That's just for us heterosexual white christian types. Yes we will allow you to exist, but don't try to be equal to us. hmmmmmmmm..... --> Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

"outofdafog, Perhaps nobody answered your questions because the answers are obvious, but irrelevant to the thread." I think that this question is very relevent and if you don't know the answer or have an opinion, don't just dismiss the question as irrelevant. It is relevent to me. I am sorry but if we follow your line of logic regarding reproduction, then we are back to the old argument of old couples marrying, people marrying who do not want children yadah yadah yadah. The answers might be obvious to you as you quote your bible verses. But you know, the only way homosexuals are born are by straight couples, some who revere their bibles. Reproduction mandated to Adam and Eve I believe, was to bring forth the Christ child. If you believe he has been born and fulfilled the curse of the law, I believe the question about "neither male nor female" in heaven is relevant. It is a part of the curse of the law being lifted and equality for all. :D--> Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

Rock, why do you think that haven't answered me.? Perhaps they don't have an answer!! --> Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

"However, if you still live in fear of WMD (weddings of mass destruction), grab your Bible and the duct tape." LMAO. Rocky, you crack me up. Yes you have answered and I do apppreciate it. The far right wing conservatives have yet to answer this question. I am being sincerely honest by the way. Love ya Rock, Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

Why won't anybody answer my question about there "being no male nor female in heaven". And why it is so important to us here on earth? I have asked this repeatedly throughout this thread and have not received any kind of response to it. I am especially interested in the views of those who are the right wing conservatives who are including the bible verses with their viewpoint. I am not trying to be argumentative, only asking an honest question. --> Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

"Main Entry: [3]troll Function: noun Etymology: Norwegian troll & Danish trold, from Old Norse troll giant, demon; probably akin to Middle High German trolle lout Date: 1616 : a dwarf or giant in Scandinavian folklore inhabiting caves or hills" Just thought I would look that word up - WGB - this is what you are. ;)--> Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

Rocky, oops!! :)--> hahaha Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

Another one for you biblical scholars (which I admit I am not one.) That is why I ask for your understanding. I thought the purpose of reproduction was for the bringing forth of the Christ child as our Savior. Why we as women labor in birth. Most all churches can agree upon that I would think. If he has already been brought forth by Mary, what is the continued purpose of reproduction? Or is this just old TWI speak? --> Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

Thanks Rocky, I have always enjoyed the honesty of your posts. And by the way, what do you called three thousand dead lawyers in the ocean? A GOOD START Hahaha no offense to you lawyers out there. Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

Just a little humor: "Can You Get Married in Heaven? On their way to get married, a young couple is involved in a fatal car accident. The couple find themselves sitting outside the Pearly Gates waiting for St. Peter to process them into Heaven. While waiting, they begin to wonder: Could they possibly get married in Heaven? When St. Peter shows up, they asked him. St. Peter says, "I don't know. This is the first time anyone has asked. Let me go find out," and he leaves. The couple sat and waited for an answer....for a couple of months. While they waited, they discussed that IF they were allowed to get married in Heaven, SHOULD they get married, what with the eternal aspect of it all. "What if it doesn't work?" they wondered, "Are we stuck together FOREVER?" After yet another month, St. Peter finally returns, looking somewhat bedraggled. "Yes," he informs the couple, "you CAN get married in Heaven." "Great!" said the couple, "But we were just wondering, what if things don't work out? Could we also get a divorce in Heaven?" St. Peter, red-faced with anger, slams his clipboard onto the ground. "What's wrong?" asked the frightened couple. "OH, COME ON!!" St. Peter shouts, "It took me three months to find a priest up here! Do you have ANY idea how long it'll take me to find a lawyer?" This reminds me of the question I have often asked in this thread. But no one has replied. Why does God say there are neither male nor female in heaven? But her on earth it is so imprtant to us? I am not trying to be smart, just asking an honest question of those who are to the extreme of being against the issue of homosexuals marrying. I think this is an honest question, in order for your bible to line up with what is going on in our society. --> Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

"Have we thought about the consequences of legalizing gay marriages? Divorce? Custody? Cheating? Battery? And this is not already happening in the heterosexual community??????????? Hello!!!!!! Are you there?????? Do you live on another plantet. This is all you hear in the news. No offense, but this is hardly a rational defense. --> Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

(((((means hugs)))))) Ex was giving you a hug. :)--> Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

AMEN Mr. Mosh Couldn't have said it better myself. :D--> Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

PRESIDENT BUSH PROPOSES AN AMMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION BANNING GAY MARRIAGES. This should get interesting. :D--> Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

"it is absurd. that is my point to legalize everything one may thinks needs to be equal with rights, I think some need to educate themselves concerning the implications this would bring society as a whole" So are you saying that it is absurd that a minority of people (who think they need to be equal - as you put it) in our country are asking for "equal rights" and this is bad. Sounds to me that this is what America is all about. I have noticed that this whole issue has secular and religious implications that would definately change our society. But maybe it can be a change for the best or maybe not. I don't pretend to know all of the implications, but I am willing to be open minded and debate it on a national level. Laura Bush even said that in a recent interview. She didn't just shut it out and go with her conservative party line. I agree with those who believe one state shouldn't shove it down the throat of another state. :D--> Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

Ginger Tea, You are right - California may not be the best place to play this out and I agree it needs a lot of debate in our society. I am not sure that I agree with what they are doing in California. In other words, just because I accept my daughter as gay, doesn't mean I am going to teach her to be unlawful and to flaunt the law of the land in other's faces. I am not into that flamboyount, throw it in your face type of thing. But obviously, as her mother, I have her best interests at heart. I want her to be able to grow up in a fair and balanced society. That is all I am saying. If a person hasn't walked in another's shoes I am not sure why they sit back self-righteously and judge anyone else. That is why I am so glad to be out of TWI. No true love or unconditional love for people. Littlehawk says: Perhaps its time for those wif heart and soul to stand up and be heard, DOWN WITH GAYS & LESBIANS!!!!!! Perhaps it is time for self righteous christians to sit down and be quiet and try to understand others. If you have no sin in your own life, then you can cast the first stone. Your attitude about "DOWN WITH GAYS AND LESBIANS" is one that I would not even address because it just shows the cattle mentality. Follow the herd. :D--> Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

Hey MJ, I am just reporting what I read. I am not sure what the trip you are on regarding your cats. I have 4 cats myself and think you are just using this as an excuse for not at least reading what someone else has said about the issue. What do your cats have to do with it?? Don't use them as an excuse for not knowing how to answer the question. That is pretty silly. When you have a daughter that comes to you and tells you that they are gay, then talk to me. Until then, take your stupid cats and talk to someone else. If you compare cats to human, then you nyhave a real problem. :D--> Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

Let me restate that: I believe their rulings had to do with "equal rights" versus "voting rights". I think that equal rights for gays would not be the proper interpretation, it would be a ruling toward any minority who felt their "equal rights" were being violated. :D--> Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

Now I don't have the exact quote here but I do remember reading an article explaining the two judges' rulings in the San Francisio marriage issue. In a summary they both stated that the concern of equal rights for gays was more of a concern than the voting right. So they made decisions based upon which "right" was most imortant. Equal rights or voting rights? Just some food for thought. :D--> Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

Trefor, Oh yes, divorce is definately now available over the internet. What isn't? Laura Bush also said recently that she is sure that many people are "shocked" about this situation in San Fransisco. But she also stated that she felt the whole issue should be debated in our society so that everyone had input. I think this is quite fair of a statement. It should be debated. But history will repeat itself and ultimately the gay society will gain the rights that they deserve. Just as the blacks and women had to fight for their rightful place in society. Unfortunately the smokers in our society have allowed the non smokers to fill them with the fear of God and be afraid to be a smoker or admit to that. This is a totally ridiculous issue to me. People have smoked forever. I have know people who never smoked who died of lung cancers, and please don't tell me that it was from second hand smoke. The guy that invented running for a health benefit, died of a heart attack while running. This was the jogger of all times. Running was good for the heart, but he had a heart attack one day while he was running. I think it is interesting that one person, Madeline O'hara was able to take prayer out of school when the religious part of society did not even stand up and fight. One women took prayer out of school, because those conservative christians did not have the "balls" to stand up and say, Hey this is a democracy or a republic. But all of a sudden, when it comes to homosexuality, the right wing conservatives are spouting the bible verses from Leviticus and Romans. Why didn't you speak up when Madeline was taking prayer out of school because she was an atheist? How does one person change an entire society? Unless the majority of the society remains quiet. outofdafog Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

This is statistacally true I believe: Quote from Mayor Daley: "Marriage has been undermined by divorce, so don't tell me about marriage," he said. "Don't blame the gay and lesbian, transgender and transsexual community." If we all get honest, I think this is true. Heterosexuals marry and divorce at the drop of a hat. If you will notice, alot of these marriages in California are between folks who have been in commited relationships for a long time. I bet they can really appreciate the "sanctity" of marriage alot more than some heterosexuals who marry and then divorce when the sexual passion wears off and the relationship faces any type of difficulty. They are out of there, because it is so easy to get divorced these days. You can get a divorce on the internet. Wow what sanctity of marriage. Just do it on line. outofdafog Thats my story and I am sticking to it. :D--> Thats my story and I am sticking to it.