rhino

my god damn spiritual perception and awareness alarm is going off ... there is sumpthin going on, and it ain't caused by god dam global warming ...

the 3rd and 5th lowest pressure atlantic hurricanes on record ... so close together ... I guess the conditions are right ... last year it was Florida getting them ... hope this one slows down a little

Well, it was a BIG glass :)--> I get REALLY sarcastically insightful by the end of the bottle, but I put a device on my keyboard so it won't work if I blow over .10 ;)-->

Ha ... well, it is funny, and I laugh too, I'd love to see pics of Craig in a more humble postion. Laughing is good ... :)--> I think the attitude I have is that Craig was a screw up ... I don't worry about praying for him, but the "bless them that persecute you" is more about MY attitude, that the bad guy is not in control of my attitude. It is easy to carry some emotional baggage, and maybe lashing out is a necessary part of the process. I certainly don't want to shove scripture on anyone though .. the philosophy of it is more important to me. Maybe I should clarify that I don't believe the Bible is all truth ... but there is a lot of good stuff in there. Reading back to my last post, that was way too close to "preachy" lol Maybe my point is that Craig was a greasespot long before he fell from his TWI position. He was probably in major denial, but he definitely had "issues.", as did VPW. It seemed some responses indicated some were still taking it quite personally ... I probably just read into what they were saying. There is probably still some resentment in my head somewhere too, so lets carry on with the Craig bashing ... though I'd rather have my ABS back, and the 10 years I mostly wasted. Man, now that really IS depressing ... HA!

man ... what happened to "bless them which persecute you" ... ? I bet LC started with some good intentions, he just got pushed a little further into the ego side than some of us ... well, no excuses, but geeeshh ... I heard stories about VP feeling very bad about his escapades with women, maybe like cocaine addiction ... I'm not sure. Craig got fat for awhile, I bet he knew he was off base ... but that he never changed is his own fault ... Anyway, if you still believe there is a just God, then let Him deal with LC ("LC, you got some esplainin' to do!" lol) I spose some brutal remarks are a fun release of hostility though, so what the hell ... If you don't believe there is a just God, then LC had a pretty good gig going on ... as did VP ... old guy gettimg young girls ... man Anyway, time to let go of the hate ...those that got used and abused are hopefully wiser now ... it is sota funny to think of old Craig hitting on some girls while they are excercising though ... surely someone could get some video of him... :)--> Just some one glass of wine thoughts ...

The tiny dremel things are the smallest for tiny stuff, but for your work seems a little small. Maybe a disk on a drill would be intermediate. My little dremel knock off has little discs about 1/2" across at the largest. I'd guess you'd want different sizes for different parts of your work. Can you post a picture or two of what you make, just for fun?

Is there a WayGB? I looked thru the pics, congrats on your grandkid, George ... looks like a great life you have there. You look pretty much the same as 30 years ago :)-->

This seems like one of those defining topics where people have to decide how much of the Bible they want to believe is true. Or for that matter, even the question of any sex outside of marriage could define that. Or maybe even the thought of sex outside of marriage. lol At the least I think it was "wrong" for men proclaiming themselves ministers to have sex with women outside their marriage, especially those seeking Christian direction. Also "incorrect" to say the the Bible approves of the gay relationship, as far as I can tell, as some gay ministers would claim. But I figure people can do what they want, and nobody is going to stop me from thinking about sex :)-->

Hey Raf, No need to apologize, I didn't remember you claiming that anyway, you were just quoting someone ... I just like lively discussion :)--> NPR has the best account I've seen of the big surge coming in from the east, right over the levees probably. http://www.npr.org/templates/ sto...storyId=4838668 The possible toll in the east, ninth ward, chalmette, still concerns me since that surge came through so fast.

Where were they PJ? I'm assuming ALL my friends from New Orleans are fine, wherever they are. The gulf coast was more "quickly devastating", but most reasonable people got out early, and in New Orleans area, almost all of the able bodied should be ok, even if they stayed. Let us know ...

ok, I can't resist Just saw CNN's mock up of "how it happened". In my mind they wedged one foot in their mouth when they said the water flowing OUT of the east into the canal was actually water magically flowing in. Now, incredibly, they "wedged" the other foot in there ... Anyway, they get the wedge from the gulf right, coming into New Orleans east (and Chalmette, etc. ... I worked down to Mereaux) and I guess they say lake water from Lake Pontchartrain came over that levee (I'm not so sure of that, Lake Borgne maybe), but then they say all this caused a break in the industrial canal levee that let a huge wave through (insert dumb cnn comments on this incredible wave after the break, how hard things were hit). Then they show proof ...a picture of St Rose (the nursing home), BUT it is still standing. OK, let me clarify :)-->, I'm just saying what I see, not saying I am absolutely right, feel free to slap me down ... lol I don't think any levees broke there ... that is why footage a day (?) later showed water flowing out over the levees from New Orleans east (the ninth ward, chalmette, etc). If this huge wave had come in through a levee break, it would have gone back out through the same hole. As far as I can tell, that is where they later intentionally broke the levees to let the water out. I haven't seen footage on this, it just makes sense. OK, I've said it, I'm smarter than CNN's paid geniuses :)--> And that is after 3 glasses of wine, a horticulture degree, and a dial up connection (and that silly bachelor of theology). They should demand a refund and send the money to ME. how 'bout some zydeco? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-h...6962759-0754550 "too much wine" is a good one ;)-->

by the way, Evan inspired me to look up some New Orleans music ... here are some free MP3's by R L Burnside http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/store...6962759-0754550 if that is too broken up, just search for burnside on amazon music, then scroll down to the free downloads Maybe some other New Orleans folks can find some good free stuff, to listen to while checking the nola news

Thank God. Rhino, I still think they'll pass 1,000, but I hope they're right and they don't find 10,000. Yeah, that is a little encouraging ... still so hard to know. I remember hearing an early account of someone saying it came up so fast they barely had time to get upstairs ... that didn't make sense to me at the time, but I guess that was in the east where the surge topped the levees, as later footage showed ... I never really thought the nightmare scenario could quite happen, north winds filling the city with lake water as the storm passed just to the east. But something close happened in the east, though that is less protected from the surge waters out of the gulf. I've since seen another nightmare scenario that put hurricane Pam (fictional) from the south to the west of town ... I guess the surge comes through the marsh or up the river ... Anyway, hopefully no more for a couple hundred years for New Orleans. Now I'll hope for under a 700. :)--> I'm counting on those resiliant Chalmatians and hardy folks in the nint'ward.

OK, I'm confused again :)--> I guess blasting the levee, even below the city, let the water move quickly enough downstream to relieve the flooding upstream? I know they can now let it through above the city, where it flows under the interstate into Lake Pontchartrain. It was pretty awesome rapids the year I saw it. google is so cool ... As it turned out, the destruction of the Caernarvon levee was unnecessary; several major levee breaks well upstream of New Orleans, including one the day after the dynamiting, made it impossible for flood waters to seriously threaten the city. http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/G...ssissippi-Flood Thanks for the history, Evan :)--> I also am fixated on New Orleans flood news ...

Here is an after shot, there is certainly something big in the breach, the reflection makes that clear. i didn't see it at first. http://www.kathryncramer.com/kathryn_crame...rleans_lev.html

Oh good, Jardinero is here :)--> All these other places could take off I guess, but as I understand, they have been talking about that for at least 5 years, but it is still the US economy that is "the engine" for the world. Here is part of one article just from google... "Low on fuel But how can the world be weaned off its over-reliance on American spending without sending the global economy into recession?" http://www.economist.com/surveys/showsurve...?issue=20030920 That was a couple years ago, but I think it is the same or worse now. The solution was for foreignors to buy more, and Americans less, but they thought that was unlikely. Another article said many believe the economic slowdown point for the price of oil is $100, which is sorta what we have now because of the large "crack spread". :)--> I wish i could say I knew what that meant before about 5 minutes ago, but it is the spread between the barrel price and the refined price, which is extra wide right now. lol Anyway, who knows? It would actually be good for everyone if all the world economies prospered, unless they do it by selling WMD's to terrorists. Must be time to chat -->

It would not surprise me if it was under $2 either. Why is a political group meeting to discuss oil prices? And which group? The price spike had occured before Katrina. Then it spiked again. The pump price has increased almost twice as much as the barrel price increase. Just from a trading perspective, when prices have spiked up incredibly, and you hear people talking about them going to the moon ... that is the time to sell (if you weren't smart enough to sell earlier lol). $4 or $5 at the pump would be crippling to the US economy. Since we are still the engine for the world, who will China sell to if not us? Their (and the world's?) production machine depends on our economy. Anyway, just wanted to present an alternative view. I could very well be wrong :)-->

I looked at a couple "before & after" pic's but no sign of the barge. If that was the cause, it must be there somewhere, and probably is in some of the footage. I'd think it would have been swept into the neighborhood. I did see a barge tied up by the bridge later, presumably for repairs ... I'm not sure if those fit under the bridge ... i guess they must ... oh, I see you said a crane was needed. Well maybe that was it. Without some outside damage, it seems strange this recently improved section would be the weak point in the levee. I was considering contractor negligence in the building or design, maybe improper fill material that saved some politically connected contractor some money. But I'm pretty pessimistic. :)--> Good to see you posting Evan, do you have power now I guess?

I read batteries only last slightly longer when stored in the fridge. But I'm really writing to endorse the idea of guns and liquor ... or beer. I stayed thru a hurricane 3 day power outage in New Orleans with a few other people. I did have a gun, to protect myself and my stuff from pillaging hordes, but most important, we had alcohol. Something about being alone in the city in the dark focuses the mind on what you really might need. Fill the tub with water, and a cooler or two with ice ... and have a party ... hurricane parties were popular in New Orleans. The fear of actually getting hit directly by the storm, or being looted, makes it even more exciting. But I came up with the better solution, move to Illinois. Except we still get pretty hot, so I need to get enough money to spend summer in Maine. And we get pretty cold, so I need more money to spend winter in Florida. So the real thing to do for a hurricane, is have a lot of money. :)-->

Glad you are safe Evan ... I had four friends with houses in that neighborhood. I was thinking they may be able to rebuild with at least the framing surviving, and maybe the wiring. Maybe even the ceilings if the water didn't get there. I'd seen repairs like that before in 4' flooding. I hadn't thought about that. I guess surviving homes may be worth more now, though hard to say with the job market so messed up for a year or more. But with construction and clean-up, who knows? Any word on Julie (used to be Lawrence)? She used to be in Metairie, which stayed a little dryer.

Great to hear linda .. let us know the rest of the story when you hear ... gutsy move for them to stay behind ...

That is pretty dm :)--> Do they keep it lit all the time?

They changed some laws to allow importation of refined oil temporarily, so it can go directly to the stations. refining is the bottleneck, even before katrina. I don't think we will see a shortage. Price is 3.09 in "downstate" Illinois (anywhere below chicago). If you watch the market, oil by the barrel has come down a little after the storm, and even the refined has come down. "Buy the rumor, sell the news" is the maxim. Haven't seen much on the state of refineries after the storm though, so it wouldn't hurt to at least keep the tank on the top half. Unfortunately, people get spooked and tend to stockpile at a time when the flow is interrupted, which just exacerbates the problem.

raf, I wasn't serious about your degree, as I'd hoped you could tell. My point was how ridiculous it is to make personal attacks about someone you don't know just because you disagree. I was a horticulture major, how worthless is that? But if you need to know how far apart to plant carrots, I'm the man. I still don't see how leaning very close to the monitor is going to help me understand better. It just makes my hair stand up and the words get blurry. You seemed to say some sensible things about earthquakes not being weather events, so maybe there is still hope for you. You survived the storm? Where were you? Or did you already tell this story?

Right 1000 names, we will carry on. Lest I be accused of being too positive, here is what I fear. The pics I saw on CNBC and other places, showing water flowing into the city, were actually shots of water flowing out over the levees. This is NOT good news. The water was flowing from a "lake" with houses in it, down over a levee into a waterway with a bridge in it. Best I could tell, this was the industrial canal, it had a bridge that lifts up vertically. Wherever it was, it meant the water had filled the neighborhood to the height above the levee. This could only happen in the worst case "fill the bowl" scenario, where water tops the levee and fills inside. If I am guessing correctly, this was New Orleans east (I lived there for a year) which is close to the twin span, where big sections of the bridge were knocked out. That would not be a case where the water rose slowly enough to allow easier escape, as in the broken levee. Maybe people on second floors would be ok. I have heard nothing about this area, but from satellite shots it seems inundated. They were closer to the edge of the hurricane, closer to the big surge from the gulf ... the bridge by them had many sections knocked out whereas the causeway to the west did not ... I don't like what that adds up to ... I hope I am really dumb and those people saying this was water flowing IN over the levees are correct. It was and still is shown repeatedly. I can't figure out how I am wrong.