Nato

You wouldn't been talking Daryl Lathrop would you?

Anyone know Charlotte? She lived in Boise around 1997 and then went Way Disciple. We miss her!

My wife and I have nothing bu GOOD to say about them and their family. They were our limb coordinators when we coordinated a fellowship in Chicago. They were the kindest, most ministering leadrship I've ever had. Their sons Nate and Ross are great kids too. If more of the Way leadership were like them, I bet it be quite a different place. Now Vince is one of the three vice presidents on the board of directors. Maybe he can do some good. Good luck Vince and Brenda!

We are both NOT still in, thank God. We left after finding this site a couple months ago! :) So, who's asking anyway? :)

Isn't it interesting that perhaps his most infamous witch hunt was for "homos" and "homo fantasizers" then? You were out by that point, but it was rediculous the extremes to which he went on about that.

Oh, sorry Karateka. It's a reference to the Dave Chappelle show. He does a sketch about Rick James, in which he (as Rick James) keeps smacking people and yelling "I'm Rick James, bitch!" So, I guess the signature is my way of giving my real name to whatever WayGB minitors and not giving a damn them.

Thanks Raf! That's generally how I scored it also. And the cognitive dissonance lost me. But since I'm sure that whatever the heck it's talking about happened to someone, I gave it a half-point. :)

OK, maybe they didn't get TONS of money out of them. I have no idea how tuition for WC cost. I know I sent a check evey month to my spiritual partner, in addition to my ABS money that supposedly helped pay for the program. The rooms in Founder's Hall are pretty tiny. Oh yeah, and ABS money paid for that building too. My main point is that so many applicants were sent home after relatively short periods of time. Why? And what books did they provide students? I'm sure they were all required to bring their collaterals and other study tools. At least after the end of four years at a college you'd have a degree you could use to get a job.

It seemed to me that they were pushing any warm-blooded advanced class grad to apply. It also seemed to me that those who went, always came back home after about 6 months to a year. And then they were pushed to RE-apply. I'm sure they already got tons of tuition money out of them by that point too.

I think it would be cool if someone took this test and did it WordWolf style. Could list each questions here in this thread, and then write their rating and why, including any evidence or testimony. I bet each post would be very interesting.

No, you were correct that many of us were told NOT to go on the internet and look up stuff about TWI. Specifically, LCM stated that the whole computer world was run by the devil spirit realm. And that we shouldn't "surf" the net, but rather get on - find what we were looking for - and get off. By that logic, we probablly shouldn't watch TV or read the papers, unless we knew specifically what program or article we wanted. Never know when you might come across a reporter that's lying about a sex scandal or lawsuit or something. :) When I first saw the website, back when I was in, I actually wanted to volunteer my services as a graphic designer because it looked so amateur. I thought "Hey, I could make this site look better than any lame old church web site!"

Hi Karateka! I left mostly for reasons of spiritual abuse that is evidence from much of the leadership, and also how legalistic it and most of the good people in it became. Just the whole mindset everyone has. Refusal to question and analyze any thing, especially if it is from a source outside the Way. I still talk to innies who just can't even CONSIDER that the allegations against the Way could be POSSIBLE, let alone true. And whether you believe any of the doctrine or not, it's still not a healthy atmosphere to be in. I'm still rethinking many things I was tought, and making up my own mind about it. Some of it I think they are right on, others not so much. But even if TWI's doctrine was 100% right, they still are spiritually abusive in their running of it. Oh and the whole "we're a kinder, gentler ministry"... that may be true. But now they're just anemic and as dmiller would say "B-O-R-I-N-G." You know what's cool, I have thought about a lot of this crap in quite a few days, whereas a couple weeks ago I was on here CONstantly. Yay for me!

My evaluation comes in at about 25.

It's been a while since the last time I tought in fellowship, and even longer since I coordinated one (2002 I think). We were given the STS schedule for the year, which I belive we were required to teach on one night of the week. But I seem to remember having to come up with our own teaching topics for the other night of fellowship (at least for a few months in advance). I don't remember if they could be whatever we wanted, or if it had to compliment that week's STS teaching. I remember not liking to have to teach on that week's STS, since I couldn't even hear that teaching until the following week when I got my tape. We did have to list our teaching schedule for a few months in advance, as well as plan out everyone else who would share, or read, or review, each week. That was a pain in the foot. I always liked the way my very first twig coordinator would run things. He put a sign-up sheet in the kitchen after fellowship. Those who wanted to sign up to teach or share could if they wanted. It wasn't required, and you could generally teach what you wanted to - something that you were working or were excited about. That was fun. We were just asked to call a few nights before to fill him in on the general content of our sharing. At some of my more recent fellowships, I never liked getting a fellowship calendar that had me scheduled to teach and lead on the days and topics of their choosing. It took some of the joy out of sharing the Word and most of the time, I didn't work on my teaching until the night before.

Belle, What year were you going to go to Gunnison for your anniversary?

For some of us who have recently left, we first cast all of our blame on Craig Martindale. He was the one who had an affair and put a strain on the ministry. I was extremely upset when he admitted the affair, but determined that I wasn't in the ministry for him. I wasn't going to quit doing the Word because of him. I decided to stay. A few years later, when discussing things with a really cool fellowship coordinator of mine, he made me feel like most of the harshness in the ministry was because of Craig. That made sense to me. I thought it was just Craig being a jerk, and that it had hurt the ministry. And thought that the ministry had realize the damage he caused and was trying to correct it (and in fact, I hadn't seen a good "face melting" since Craig "stepped down"). But then I found this site. I was blown away, to say the least, to hear of TWO lawsuits (and settlements). And to learn of allegations of Rosalie FACILITATING the sexual abuses. That was bad enough. Then to learn that it went beyond that, extending to the other BOT members, I was somewhat shocked. It got worse the more I dug. Even then, I thought that everything went to hell after Craig took "office." So there's the whole "Well Craig's gone, and we have mostly new directors on the board, and you can't PROVE that Rivenbark knew, so why leave" - that was a thought. But after reading just as many people share the SAME experiences (that I thought only happened during Craig's regime) dating back to the 70s, I realized that this organization's been this way for a LONG LONG time. The fact that most people don't realize it's like that for so long, is a testament to how closely guarded the "closed society" really is. It also occured to me that the Way gets more and more controlling the longer and more involved you've been in. I don't think I ever experineced much of the legalism and abuse until I moved out after high-school graduation (and ESPECIALLY when I went Way Disciple, Goup 1). I'm SO thankful I'm out.

What's this "weenie roast" I keep seeing mentioned?

I think this is actually my 3rd day of freedom, and I don't feel greasey at all. :) At times I wonder "What have I done?!" for a few seconds, find myself wondering "what if they ARE all lying." That sort of thing. Which I hear is normal for a little bit. So then, I come here, read some transcripts of Martindick's public batherings, or some personal stories, and I feel MUCH better. You guys are a great help! Thanks!

Thank again to everyone for your support and kind words! sami, I wonder if I know any of your family. My grandmother worked on staff and lived in the Wierwille home for years. I stayed there just about every summer while I was in high school, working volunteer staff. If you care to talk about it, perhaps we can continue that discussion via private message. Belle, I'd love a Danish. As long as they were prepared with the "love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation in the household". :) My friends recommended the The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse also so I'll defnitely pick it up, along with Releasing the Bonds.

Thank you def! This bothers me as well. A couple nights ago I read some scriptures on my own, objectively, and without the filter of TWI. I also read "Christians Should Be Prosperous" and actually challenged it by going to the Bible where he quotes a line of scripture, and reading the surrounding verses. It was the first time in a long time that I felt was learning something.

Boy, I'm glad they didn't find a replacement with charisma, or I might have ended up staying longer. Glad to be here. It's really helping me a lot! Thanks Groucho!

I know the court documents mention Martindale and threesomes. Not only that, I've talked to other sources who know that in addition to threesomes, he also just like to watch two women engaging in the act. That it was one of the big things he was into.

You know what, that sounds REALLY great to hear! I've been lurking on the boards for a couple/few weeks now, and I appreciate the reception dm!

Sami, I assumed that you were once involved in TWI, but realized you don't actually state that. One of my comments assumed that, but if not, I hope maybe my post makes clear some of their lack of answers.

As a now-former follower of TWI (my wife and I just notified them yesterday), I can honestly say that those innies are not answering your questions because they probablly DON'T know. I didn't know at all about the second lawsuit, or the gross accusations within both, until a couple of weeks ago. When I asked friends and family if they'd heard anything, they didn't know either. We'd all been involved faithfully for years (my wife and I were both raised in the word - myself a third generation believer). We didn't know about the settlements, the press conferences, the newspaper articles, these websites... anything. I presented it my wife, and at first she really didn't want to believe any of it either. At first, didn't believe that Rivenbark knew about the affairs, or that she possibly facilitated the activities. Had a harder time believing that other trustees were involved. And the hardest part to take were the accusations against VPW - whether sexual allegations or evidence of plagarism. My own parents, who haven't been involved actively since before I took PFAL also have trouble believing them. I myself grew up around the Wierwille family, all of his children and grandchildren. It was very hard for me to believe it all. It took a lot of reading and deliberation to absorb and understand how it could be true. For my wfie and I, it took talking to dear friends (ex-leadership who had been M&Aed for leaving after the scandal broke), to help it really sink in. We loved the Word and the ministry so much, that we truly believed we were part of the household and the only one's with such an understanding of the word. When they told us the adversary was attacking God's Word and trying to destroy the ministry (as they've said for years, we believed it with all of our hearts. With our understanding of the adversary (a word I just realized that sounds to Way-like now), this made complete sense. So even once we started to believe all the evidence, we still really wondered "what if it really is all a campaign by the adversary." It was even more difficult since we never experience some of the same out-and-out abuse as is commonly read about. Same with our family and friends. We believed that Craig had affairs; he admitted to that. But the Way said one thing, and the plaintiff's another. Who do you believe, with all of our background and beliefs. It took us some time and a lot of mental energy and anguish. And to a general believer, for the past five years, we really haven't seen a lot of the obvious problems. No face meltings, no mark and avoids, no prying into the finances (although the no-debt policy is still in place). Not as much pressure to go to everything. For some who don't know the depth of the problem, it's an easy conclusion that the ministry has gotten better and is correcting error. But it's not. The same people are in power now as then. They're just laying low. With such low numbers, they can't just M&A as before. With lawsuits over ABS money, you can't hound people for money as easily. The only thing you hear in most teachings now is "household" and "speak the word." So anyway, most people don't know. Some don't believe. Some people will just need time. Others won't get it. Having been involved yourself, I'm sure you can see where some people might be having problems. The manipulation of TWI is clever, crafty, camoflauged and runs very deep. Thank God that I realized this now. I wish I had the sense to get out in 2000 when I found out and was so angered, but TWI was very good at covering it with their now-obvious tactics. I'm thankful that I stumbled onto this site when I did, and found old friends to help me through it.