Vyctorya911

If anything, I feel they owe me for the spiritual & mental torture they put me through. Vyctorya

I was in from 1994 till 2000 and I continually heard the sermon that you were expected to tithe no less than 10%. However, they also preached constantly that in the Book of Acts the people gave evverything above their need, which basically meant give them all your money after your bills were paid. I remember many sermons about Acts being "plurality giving." I also remember LCM saying - word for word "God won't even spit in your direction if you do not tithe at least 10%." Then they started preaching the whole no debt thing. They didn't even want you to have car or mortgage payments. At first I thought it made sense and from certain aspects, it does. But, being that it was at the same time they were really harping on the tithe & "abundant sharing" their motive was to have you completely debt free so you could literally give most of your money to them. Vyctorya

The biggest one I remember was one LCM seemed to complain about every other week and that was that the Pope was everything from the Antichrist to seed of the serpent, etc. Week after week the Pope was constantly under fire by LCM. Vyctorya

Please keep my family in your prayers. My cousin, Gary Harp, age 37 was killed last week here in Arkansas. He was driving home and got hit by a drunk driver. The driver did not stop at the scene and was later arrested after an 8 mile chase by police. As it turns out, the driver who hit & killed him was an illegal immigrant. My cousin left behind two young children, a wife and countless family members and friends who dearly loved him. The accused was charged with DUI & Vehicular Homicide. Bail was initially set at 50,000 for the man who did this. However, after contacting our local congreeman, several complaints from family & the community, the judge revoked bail at the request of the D.A. due to the man being a flight risk. I have contacted our senators and congressman who represent Arkansas to encourage them to pass new laws that would deny bail to this who are accused of felonies and here illegally. I pray that not only will justice be served but that new laws coupled with the enforcement of existing immigrataion laws, this will not happen to another innocent family. I guess what hurts the most is that the driver fled. He didn't even bother to stop and try to render aid or call an ambulance. Instead, he ran, risked other people's lives who were in his path, leading police on a chase 8 miles down a busy interstate that ended at this man's home. Plaese don't misunderstand. I have no issue with anyone coming to this country legally. But I do have a major issue with ones who come here illegally, further break our laws, risk the lives of our citizens, take lives and have no regard in general for human life when they choose to drive drunk. It is a very tough time for my family. I am so thankful that my cousin was a godly man, a good christian and will be with our heavenly father eternally.

I left for several reasons, but what sealed it for me was a remark after I'd left that was completely uncalled for. I'd left the ministry but attempted to stay with my then spouse who was still very active. One day at work, out of nowhere I had a stroke. I was rushed to the hospital in serious condition. My spouse showed up and then in comes my fellowship coordinators. They actually told me that my stroke was the result of "Walking out on God and the man of God in TWI due to my "unbelief." At that point, I realized they had no regard for anyone and I never looked back.

Saw this article & thought it was most interesting. Part of me wonders if this could be a TWI fellowship. But, in any case, seems that those who run home fellowships may now have cause for concern. Granted it's only one county this is concerning but things like this tend to spread. Article: FAITH UNDER FIRE Home: No place for Bible study County demands pastor obtain $10,000 permit to host friends Posted: May 22, 2009 5:13 pm Eastern By Drew Zahn © 2009 WorldNetDaily A San Diego pastor and his wife claim they were interrogated by a county official and warned they will face escalating fines if they continue to hold Bible studies in their home. The couple, whose names are being withheld until a demand letter can be filed on their behalf, told their attorney a county government employee knocked on their door on Good Friday, asking a litany of questions about their Tuesday night Bible studies, which are attended by approximately 15 people. "Do you have a regular weekly meeting in your home? Do you sing? Do you say 'amen'?" the official reportedly asked. "Do you say, 'Praise the Lord'?" The pastor's wife answered yes. She says she was then told, however, that she must stop holding "religious assemblies" until she and her husband obtain a Major Use Permit from the county, a permit that often involves traffic and environmental studies, compliance with parking and sidewalk regulations and costs that top tens of thousands of dollars. And if they fail to pay for the MUP, the county official reportedly warned, the couple will be charged escalating fines beginning at $100, then $200, $500, $1000, "and then it will get ugly." Remind the world who's really in charge with the "Worship GOD, not GOV" magnetic bumper sticker from WND. Dean Broyles of the Western Center for Law & Policy, which has been retained to represent the couple, told WND the county's action not only violates religious land-use laws but also assaults both the First Amendment's freedom of assembly and freedom of religion. "The First Amendment, in part, reads, 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,'" Broyles said. "And that's the key part: 'prohibiting the free exercise.' We believe this is a substantial government burden on the free exercise of religion." He continued, "If one's home is one's castle, certainly you would the think the free exercise of religion, of all places, could occur in the home." Broyles confirmed the county official followed through on his threat. The pastor and his wife received a written warning ordering the couple to "cease/stop religious assembly on parcel or obtain a major use permit." "The Western Center for Law and Policy is troubled by this draconian move to suppress home Bible studies," said the law center in a statement. "If the current trends in our nation continue, churches may be forced underground. If that happens, believers will once again be forced to meet in homes. If homes are already closed by the government to assembly and worship, where then will Christians meet?" On a personal note, Broyles added, "I've been leading Bible studies in my home for 13 years in San Diego County, and I personally believe that home fellowship Bible studies are the past and future of the church. … If you look at China, the church grew from home Bible studies. I'm deeply concerned that if in the U.S. we are not able to meet in our homes and freely practice our religion, then we may be worse off than China." Broyles also explained to WND that oppressive governments, such as communist China or Nazi Germany, worked to repress home fellowships, labeling them the "underground church" or "subversive groups," legally compelling Christians to meet only in sanctioned, government-controlled "official" churches. "Therein lies my concern," Broyles said. "If people can't practice their religious beliefs in the privacy of their own homes with a few of their friends, that's an egregious First Amendment violation." WND contacted a spokeswoman for San Diego County, who acknowledged the description of the incident seemed "bizarre," but who was unable to locate the details of the account. She simply could not provide comment yet, she said, until she could become familiar with the case. Broyles said the WCLP is nearly ready to file a demand letter with the county to release the pastor and his wife from the requirement to obtain the expensive permit. If the county refuses, Broyles said, the WCLP will consider a lawsuit in federal court. Broyles also told WND the pastor and his wife are continuing to hold the Bible study in their home.

I'm not sure who "coined the phrase" but I do recall in the mid to late 90's LCM making mention that tithing was minimum 10% and that was the bare minimum. He went on to emphasize that the books of Acts starts with believers giving of their abundance, meaning everything that was not needed to live on. As I recall I heard the phrase used in regards to "abundant sharing" meaning that if you weren't giving over and above that 10% God wouldn't even "spit in your direction." Anyone else recall that?

In general, whether being asked to leave, leaving because you want to, being done harshly or nicely, I think that's all smyptomatic so to speak. Looking at the bigger picture, they exercise great control over people. They constantly preach/teach/speak on what happens to those who are "not under God's protection," "not in the household," etc. They are sneaky in that they befriend you "if" or "as long as" you are in their group. State an opinion though; ask too many questions; be accepting of others beliefs or religions. etc. & you will see a brand new side! Friendship should not be conditional. Love, in any form, should not be conditional & based on this or that. With all their control they strictly enforce, but the time you realize what's happened, you are blindsided & left having nothing outside of their group. That leaves one vulnerable, with few or no friends, alienated family members, no job, no money, no resume to speak of & no where to go. By then how it's done really is shadowed by the overall facts of the abuse one suffered spiritually, emotionally, etc. When someone does leave they've pretty much already succeeded at making it difficult to recover. Vyctorya

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What helped me tons was talking to those I did not know well who had left TWI. When I left, I had been so engrained with bad things happening to the ones who did (Twi jargon), I had trouble believing it when those I knew well who had left told me their success stories. I also had lots of family support as well as support from friends. I went to a church a friend of mine whom I trusted belonged to & talked with the minister there at length. After that, I told myself that twi would NOT take away my confidence, my beliefs & my pride. I just refused to let them win. Once out, I began reading things for myself & discovered a lot of doctrinal error. That helped me quite a lot. I also began to see how I got caught up with them to begin with, addressed that & now I am happier than I have ever been. Vyctorya

I don't think you were mean at all. You were just upfront about your feelings. In my experience, give an inch & they take a mile. Plus to continue a conversation with them to convince them they are in a cult seems as though it would be unfruitful as they are in denial. I think you did the right thing. Vyctorya

Ephesians: What am I doing here? I am here to hopefully help others whenever possible. Most of us here endured alot of painful things in "that ministry" & it took a lot for us to overcome that. There are those here who want to leave "that ministry" & like we were at one time, are afraid due to the fear tactics that are used. So, what I am I doing here? I am here because I am called to be here. I am here because I CHOOSE to be here. Here is where my friends are! You tell us to "walk in the ways of Jesus Christ." Well, Ephesians, I am doing exactly that BY being here. Jesus Christ spoke out. He helped others. And so do I. Even LCM himself said Jesus Christ was not always loving & tender. He spoke the truth & was not afraid to do so. As followers of Jesus Christ, at times to confront something cannot be done by being "loving & tender." It was always a TWI fear tactic to tell us what is & is not a place we should be, or something we should or should not be doing. That's a control tactic. You can learn something from anyone - regardless of their faith or practices. My advice to you is stop living in a box. God is bigger than that. We are not here to bash "that ministry" but instead to help each other through the hard times & move on with our lives. Vyctorya

As much as I blindly followed them & hung on every word out of LCM's mouth, there is no way I'd ever do/have done anything illegal/dangerous/harmful for them or anyone else. My ex & I wound up divorcing because I wanted to leave TWI & he did not. He actually gave up talking to any of his family because of TWI. He refused to have any friends that were not part of them. Looking back I see how naive that I was to follow most of the instructions I was given when "in" with them. I'm just glad it never lead to something like Jonestown.

Does anyone by chance happen to have any old SNS "teaching" tapes from the 90's with LCM teaching? The topic does not matter. I'm just looking to get one or two for something I am working on. Anyone who may have one they'd like to get rid of please private message me.

The Civil War was not about slavery. Slavery had begun to end before the Civil War started. In fact, from my research, it was the north who started the "slavery" concept. But I digress. The Civil War was about the rights of the states to govern themselves, among other issues. I would not doubt LCM's claim to be true. I recall him also saying that both Lee & Grant were Masons & that this "fact" had alot to do with the outcome of the war. In regard to "Garth's" thoughts on it being false"some folks say that the south was winding down slavery and fixing to end it because it was supposedly 'cost prohibitive' to them by the time the war started. " I believe that quoted portion to be true. Slaves were an expensive thing in that day. Not every house had them. Typically only the wealthy did. The Civil War was much more than slavery. There are a couple of links worth looking at that you may or may not already have: http://www.civilwarhome.com/confederatecauses.htm http://www.slavenorth.com/index.html That all said, I do not condone slavery. No human should ever have to be subject to that. However, I feel that I must defend my homeland, the south. We were not the only participants in the war. It was a two sided war & the north has its share of responsibility also. If you do manage to prove any of LCM's ramblings, let me know please as I'd like to find out how much was true & how much was false.