Vyctorya911

If anything, I feel they owe me for the spiritual & mental torture they put me through. Vyctorya

I was in from 1994 till 2000 and I continually heard the sermon that you were expected to tithe no less than 10%. However, they also preached constantly that in the Book of Acts the people gave evverything above their need, which basically meant give them all your money after your bills were paid. I remember many sermons about Acts being "plurality giving." I also remember LCM saying - word for word "God won't even spit in your direction if you do not tithe at least 10%." Then they started preaching the whole no debt thing. They didn't even want you to have car or mortgage payments. At first I thought it made sense and from certain aspects, it does. But, being that it was at the same time they were really harping on the tithe & "abundant sharing" their motive was to have you completely debt free so you could literally give most of your money to them. Vyctorya

The biggest one I remember was one LCM seemed to complain about every other week and that was that the Pope was everything from the Antichrist to seed of the serpent, etc. Week after week the Pope was constantly under fire by LCM. Vyctorya

Please keep my family in your prayers. My cousin, Gary Harp, age 37 was killed last week here in Arkansas. He was driving home and got hit by a drunk driver. The driver did not stop at the scene and was later arrested after an 8 mile chase by police. As it turns out, the driver who hit & killed him was an illegal immigrant. My cousin left behind two young children, a wife and countless family members and friends who dearly loved him. The accused was charged with DUI & Vehicular Homicide. Bail was initially set at 50,000 for the man who did this. However, after contacting our local congreeman, several complaints from family & the community, the judge revoked bail at the request of the D.A. due to the man being a flight risk. I have contacted our senators and congressman who represent Arkansas to encourage them to pass new laws that would deny bail to this who are accused of felonies and here illegally. I pray that not only will justice be served but that new laws coupled with the enforcement of existing immigrataion laws, this will not happen to another innocent family. I guess what hurts the most is that the driver fled. He didn't even bother to stop and try to render aid or call an ambulance. Instead, he ran, risked other people's lives who were in his path, leading police on a chase 8 miles down a busy interstate that ended at this man's home. Plaese don't misunderstand. I have no issue with anyone coming to this country legally. But I do have a major issue with ones who come here illegally, further break our laws, risk the lives of our citizens, take lives and have no regard in general for human life when they choose to drive drunk. It is a very tough time for my family. I am so thankful that my cousin was a godly man, a good christian and will be with our heavenly father eternally.

I left for several reasons, but what sealed it for me was a remark after I'd left that was completely uncalled for. I'd left the ministry but attempted to stay with my then spouse who was still very active. One day at work, out of nowhere I had a stroke. I was rushed to the hospital in serious condition. My spouse showed up and then in comes my fellowship coordinators. They actually told me that my stroke was the result of "Walking out on God and the man of God in TWI due to my "unbelief." At that point, I realized they had no regard for anyone and I never looked back.

Saw this article & thought it was most interesting. Part of me wonders if this could be a TWI fellowship. But, in any case, seems that those who run home fellowships may now have cause for concern. Granted it's only one county this is concerning but things like this tend to spread. Article: FAITH UNDER FIRE Home: No place for Bible study County demands pastor obtain $10,000 permit to host friends Posted: May 22, 2009 5:13 pm Eastern By Drew Zahn © 2009 WorldNetDaily A San Diego pastor and his wife claim they were interrogated by a county official and warned they will face escalating fines if they continue to hold Bible studies in their home. The couple, whose names are being withheld until a demand letter can be filed on their behalf, told their attorney a county government employee knocked on their door on Good Friday, asking a litany of questions about their Tuesday night Bible studies, which are attended by approximately 15 people. "Do you have a regular weekly meeting in your home? Do you sing? Do you say 'amen'?" the official reportedly asked. "Do you say, 'Praise the Lord'?" The pastor's wife answered yes. She says she was then told, however, that she must stop holding "religious assemblies" until she and her husband obtain a Major Use Permit from the county, a permit that often involves traffic and environmental studies, compliance with parking and sidewalk regulations and costs that top tens of thousands of dollars. And if they fail to pay for the MUP, the county official reportedly warned, the couple will be charged escalating fines beginning at $100, then $200, $500, $1000, "and then it will get ugly." Remind the world who's really in charge with the "Worship GOD, not GOV" magnetic bumper sticker from WND. Dean Broyles of the Western Center for Law & Policy, which has been retained to represent the couple, told WND the county's action not only violates religious land-use laws but also assaults both the First Amendment's freedom of assembly and freedom of religion. "The First Amendment, in part, reads, 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,'" Broyles said. "And that's the key part: 'prohibiting the free exercise.' We believe this is a substantial government burden on the free exercise of religion." He continued, "If one's home is one's castle, certainly you would the think the free exercise of religion, of all places, could occur in the home." Broyles confirmed the county official followed through on his threat. The pastor and his wife received a written warning ordering the couple to "cease/stop religious assembly on parcel or obtain a major use permit." "The Western Center for Law and Policy is troubled by this draconian move to suppress home Bible studies," said the law center in a statement. "If the current trends in our nation continue, churches may be forced underground. If that happens, believers will once again be forced to meet in homes. If homes are already closed by the government to assembly and worship, where then will Christians meet?" On a personal note, Broyles added, "I've been leading Bible studies in my home for 13 years in San Diego County, and I personally believe that home fellowship Bible studies are the past and future of the church. … If you look at China, the church grew from home Bible studies. I'm deeply concerned that if in the U.S. we are not able to meet in our homes and freely practice our religion, then we may be worse off than China." Broyles also explained to WND that oppressive governments, such as communist China or Nazi Germany, worked to repress home fellowships, labeling them the "underground church" or "subversive groups," legally compelling Christians to meet only in sanctioned, government-controlled "official" churches. "Therein lies my concern," Broyles said. "If people can't practice their religious beliefs in the privacy of their own homes with a few of their friends, that's an egregious First Amendment violation." WND contacted a spokeswoman for San Diego County, who acknowledged the description of the incident seemed "bizarre," but who was unable to locate the details of the account. She simply could not provide comment yet, she said, until she could become familiar with the case. Broyles said the WCLP is nearly ready to file a demand letter with the county to release the pastor and his wife from the requirement to obtain the expensive permit. If the county refuses, Broyles said, the WCLP will consider a lawsuit in federal court. Broyles also told WND the pastor and his wife are continuing to hold the Bible study in their home.

I'm not sure who "coined the phrase" but I do recall in the mid to late 90's LCM making mention that tithing was minimum 10% and that was the bare minimum. He went on to emphasize that the books of Acts starts with believers giving of their abundance, meaning everything that was not needed to live on. As I recall I heard the phrase used in regards to "abundant sharing" meaning that if you weren't giving over and above that 10% God wouldn't even "spit in your direction." Anyone else recall that?

In general, whether being asked to leave, leaving because you want to, being done harshly or nicely, I think that's all smyptomatic so to speak. Looking at the bigger picture, they exercise great control over people. They constantly preach/teach/speak on what happens to those who are "not under God's protection," "not in the household," etc. They are sneaky in that they befriend you "if" or "as long as" you are in their group. State an opinion though; ask too many questions; be accepting of others beliefs or religions. etc. & you will see a brand new side! Friendship should not be conditional. Love, in any form, should not be conditional & based on this or that. With all their control they strictly enforce, but the time you realize what's happened, you are blindsided & left having nothing outside of their group. That leaves one vulnerable, with few or no friends, alienated family members, no job, no money, no resume to speak of & no where to go. By then how it's done really is shadowed by the overall facts of the abuse one suffered spiritually, emotionally, etc. When someone does leave they've pretty much already succeeded at making it difficult to recover. Vyctorya

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What helped me tons was talking to those I did not know well who had left TWI. When I left, I had been so engrained with bad things happening to the ones who did (Twi jargon), I had trouble believing it when those I knew well who had left told me their success stories. I also had lots of family support as well as support from friends. I went to a church a friend of mine whom I trusted belonged to & talked with the minister there at length. After that, I told myself that twi would NOT take away my confidence, my beliefs & my pride. I just refused to let them win. Once out, I began reading things for myself & discovered a lot of doctrinal error. That helped me quite a lot. I also began to see how I got caught up with them to begin with, addressed that & now I am happier than I have ever been. Vyctorya

I don't think you were mean at all. You were just upfront about your feelings. In my experience, give an inch & they take a mile. Plus to continue a conversation with them to convince them they are in a cult seems as though it would be unfruitful as they are in denial. I think you did the right thing. Vyctorya

Ephesians: What am I doing here? I am here to hopefully help others whenever possible. Most of us here endured alot of painful things in "that ministry" & it took a lot for us to overcome that. There are those here who want to leave "that ministry" & like we were at one time, are afraid due to the fear tactics that are used. So, what I am I doing here? I am here because I am called to be here. I am here because I CHOOSE to be here. Here is where my friends are! You tell us to "walk in the ways of Jesus Christ." Well, Ephesians, I am doing exactly that BY being here. Jesus Christ spoke out. He helped others. And so do I. Even LCM himself said Jesus Christ was not always loving & tender. He spoke the truth & was not afraid to do so. As followers of Jesus Christ, at times to confront something cannot be done by being "loving & tender." It was always a TWI fear tactic to tell us what is & is not a place we should be, or something we should or should not be doing. That's a control tactic. You can learn something from anyone - regardless of their faith or practices. My advice to you is stop living in a box. God is bigger than that. We are not here to bash "that ministry" but instead to help each other through the hard times & move on with our lives. Vyctorya

As much as I blindly followed them & hung on every word out of LCM's mouth, there is no way I'd ever do/have done anything illegal/dangerous/harmful for them or anyone else. My ex & I wound up divorcing because I wanted to leave TWI & he did not. He actually gave up talking to any of his family because of TWI. He refused to have any friends that were not part of them. Looking back I see how naive that I was to follow most of the instructions I was given when "in" with them. I'm just glad it never lead to something like Jonestown.

Does anyone by chance happen to have any old SNS "teaching" tapes from the 90's with LCM teaching? The topic does not matter. I'm just looking to get one or two for something I am working on. Anyone who may have one they'd like to get rid of please private message me.

The Civil War was not about slavery. Slavery had begun to end before the Civil War started. In fact, from my research, it was the north who started the "slavery" concept. But I digress. The Civil War was about the rights of the states to govern themselves, among other issues. I would not doubt LCM's claim to be true. I recall him also saying that both Lee & Grant were Masons & that this "fact" had alot to do with the outcome of the war. In regard to "Garth's" thoughts on it being false"some folks say that the south was winding down slavery and fixing to end it because it was supposedly 'cost prohibitive' to them by the time the war started. " I believe that quoted portion to be true. Slaves were an expensive thing in that day. Not every house had them. Typically only the wealthy did. The Civil War was much more than slavery. There are a couple of links worth looking at that you may or may not already have: http://www.civilwarhome.com/confederatecauses.htm http://www.slavenorth.com/index.html That all said, I do not condone slavery. No human should ever have to be subject to that. However, I feel that I must defend my homeland, the south. We were not the only participants in the war. It was a two sided war & the north has its share of responsibility also. If you do manage to prove any of LCM's ramblings, let me know please as I'd like to find out how much was true & how much was false.

True friends? In TWI? That's funny! When I left they all refused to speak to me.

Ryan, After you've attended a few fellowships, they will eventually ask you to take the classes or hint to it in some way. I have seen people come a few times & then not appear after a while. All I ever heard was "they did not want the Word." I always took that to mean they did not want to take the classes and/or did not agree with what they believe & stopped going. As to devil spirits, twi(t) love to control with that thinking. My ex once accused me of being possessed by devil spirits & tried to "exercise them" from me. Anything we wanted to buy if he did not feel it was "spiritually clean" we could not buy it. Very weird to me now looking back. If you ever need to talk or if your girlfriend does, feel free todrop me a personal message & I will get you my contact info. I know how hard it is to deal with the whole mess! Vyctorya

Perhaps she'll read my story or listen to you tell it. I met my ex husband in 1994. At the time he was just back in TWI but had a severe alcohol problem he was working to overcome. His requirement for us to go further in our relationship was to go to a "tig fellowship" meeting. At the time I figured what the heck. I may learn something. I went & I loved it. The people were nice & made me feel at home. I began to go to their meetings & eventually took their classes. I did not or should I say would not see at the time that the more involved with them I got, the less I interacted with family & friends who were not in TWI. A few years went by & TWI got stricter & stricter. It got to the point that we had to disclose ALL debt to them & work out an approved plan to get out of debt, including not having any mortgage oe car patment. We had to have a schedule of every part of our day which should be sent to our "leadership" weekly. We were told giving anything less than 10% was a waste of God's time & encouraged to giove all our money that we did not need for bills, etc to them. We were told to only go out to places for the purpose of "witnessing." My husband began to go so far as to put spy programs on our computer to track my activity. I had to study at least 1 hour a day or forget watching my tv. If we went on vacation it had to be approved thru the leadership in writing. If we did not agree 100% with them were "out from under God's protection" & risked "bad things" happening like illness, lost jobs, etc. A very good scare tactic. If we ever considered any other denomination or religion to have any valid points we were possessed. If we did not think homosexuals were perverts, we were doomed & just as "bad" as they were. My husband got so involved in this group that nothing outside of TWI mattered. I began to start seeing this. It seemed wek after week I heard about how "bad" & "evil" catholics were & heard the bashing of the "homos" & that we weren't homophobic we were "homonaseus." It got to be so much stress on me. I started to see that this was not how I wanted to live my life, as someone full of hate. I told my husband I wanted out of TWI. I explained I loved him & fully planned to stay in the marriage. After much bickering over it, it was agreed. I began to go to another church & for a time had some peace. However, my husband began to accuse me of being "possessed" by the church. I had gotten a very good job & he felt threatened by my sense of independence. He was losing his control over me. One night he tried to "cast out the devil spirits" from me. I had enough. After that, a few weeks later with his constant nagging & BS I suffered a stroke. The "fellowship leaders" came to the hospital to visit. They explained "They did not give a damn about me but were their to support my husband" & I was told my stroke was because I stopped attending fellowship & walked out from under my husband's leadership & that I deserved it to wake me up. After coming home from the hospital my husband refused to take me to therapy. Since I could not drive yet I h ad to go without it. That was the last straw. After I gained some strength back I left him once & for all. He was so bitter he loocked me out of the house & refused to give me my personal things. I called his fellowship leader who told me it was his idea that my husband do that. After fighting it out in court, I took only my personal things. I had a co-worker who I'd turned to for help getting thru this & over TWI. He turned me on to a forner TWI member who helped me get unbrainwashed from the BS. After years of unlearning & much healing, I still hold my ojb & am remarried to a very kind & loving man. I am now able to live my life without fear. I have had my share of ups & downs, but at least they were my mistakes to make without being "controlled." Oh I was told when I left I'd die, etc. Tons of scare tactics. Well I am still alive. I actually make more money, have more control over my life & am starting to see that life is more than 1 ministry. I hope your girlfriend will one day see how TWI is. It took me a lot, almost the loss of my life, to see it. There is more out there than TWI. There are very wonderful people in all religions. We can learn from anyone. I have friends who are gay & you know, they are very kind & would do anything for me. They love God & live decent lives. I have Muslim friends, Wiccan friends, Jewish friends & I enjoy hearing their perspectives on things. We do not always agree but it's great to have the freedom to sit & listen to them without my husband calling them sinners damned to hell. TWI gives the appearance of being nice, friendly, loving, caring. But disagree with them. Thinnk for yourself. Tell them no once & you will see for yourself how quickly they turn on you. That is actually part of their mind control is the kindness. They reel you in with it until you are so ensconsed in it you can't see it. if you need to talk please feel free to PM me. I am here for you both. Vyctorya

Welcome to GSC! There's plenty of room for you! I was in the Way for about 6 years with my now ex husband. His mother had left TWI years ago. Because of that he rarely saw her. When he did it was only for the holidays. And when he did there was always a disagreement about "the ministry." I tried many times to get him to accept her & just love her without it mattering what group she did or did not belong to. He never would. He was so engrained with their doctrine he could not see the truth or logic in it. Those in that group are embedded with fear of "disobeying leadership." I know week after week I had to hear crap about those who'd left & all the "bad things" that happened. Their leaders know exactly how to exercise control & keep it. I encourage you not to give up on your family. When they do see it for what it really is, they'll need your love to get out & stay out. Vyctorya

While I have moved on with my life, as many of us have after that group, most of us (myself included) are not here to re-hash the past, live in the past or dwell on it. Instead, we are here to help those who need it in getting out, in recovery & basic life after the cult! I know for me, if I can help someone to rebuild their lives or find some happiness, move on or escape that "hell" then it's well worth re-hashing my story. So no, we are not a bunch of whiners. We are quite the opposite - we are ones who are sick of having been cut off from voicing an opinion for years & years. We are ones who have voices of experience that can help others in getting out & moving on. We are ones who will continue to speak out against any group who derives pleasure from ruining other peoples lives. Vyctorya

When you was in The cult some call the Way Ministry Was VPW your God? >>>>>I was not in during VP days but was for LCM. Either way, I did not & do no believe they are/were my God. Did you believe everything taught by the Way Ministry? >>>>>At first, YES. Initially I was so starved for the love I found therem I believed it all. However when I started to "grow up" I began to stray away from the whole "believe it all" mentality. Did you think the Way Ministry was the only true church? >>>>>Again, at first, YES. Later on though it finally hit me that there is no "one true church" But how do you think now? >>>>>Now, I feel I can learn something from anyone, no matter what religion they follow. I believe each person has the right to worship or not worsjip at all as they see fit. If it works for them & helps them to be a better person, that's great. Do you believe that the Way Ministry wasted part of your life? >>>>>While I am still a bit hurt by the way I was treated toward the end of my time there, I do not feel it was a waste of my time. I see it as a stage in my life that I needed to go through for some unknown reason. I learned many lessons I would not otherwise have learned & became a better person in the long run once out. Do you hate the Way Ministry now? >>>>>NO. Do I think they mislead people? YES. Do I think they they have misguided beliefs? ABSOLUTELY. But hate, NO. I actually have some empathy toward them. I think it's sad when anyone keeps God in a box & on such a small level/plain. Do you hate VPW or the deeds of VPW? >>>>>Again, I was not part of VP days. LCM, I do not hate nor do I hate his deeds. In some ways I think that at one time he really believed what he was doing was the best thing for God. I think over time his power that was handed to him on a platinum platter corrupted that good part of him causing him to fall away from his initial goals & desires. But I do not hate him. Who is your God now? >>>>Same as the one I have always worshipped. I just see God in a different light & a much bigger way than ever before.

In the 90's they definitely started to get way too controlling. I came to it in 94 & just didn't see it initially. Loking back, at that time I was searching for answers, for a love I'd never felt, for inclusion. I thought that I'd find that there. But as time went on I began to see it all clearly. Having to account for every bit of my time, having to study constantly, having to go places only for the soul purpose of "witnessing," only having friends that are part of the ministry, giving every cent that you had that you didn't need to pay bills with. The list goes on & on. Heck, once my then husband accused me of having "devil" spirits & started "casting them out" like I'm part of the exorcist or something. The way they betrayed people's sense of trust & their genuine desire to learn is shameful. Should I have seen right through it? Should I have been more careful? Possibly. But for those of us who were so desparately needing to belong, to find answers & a better way, we were vulnerable & just could not see things from a clear enough perspective. That is what I have trouble with - their taking advantage of people in those situations. Vyctorya

For me it was very very difficult & at first impossible to go to any church. My trust was broken. It took a long time to build it back up. Additionally, they were so restrictive that it really hit me hard emotionally. I had no friends, my marriage broke up, I was isolated & it was scary. Practically I had to break habits like reporting in to someone constantly, giving all my $$$$ away that I didn't need to pay bills with, etc. I was also curious about other religions & lifestyles. I got so sick of hearing them bash the Catholic Church, bash homosexuals, bash anyone who did not agree with them. I began to really see first hand that I do not care what religion someone has. If it works for them & they are a better person as a result, then great! I do not have to agree doctrinally with someone, but I can learn from them in some ways & can respect their choice & the way they follow it. Likewise, whether I agree or disagree with someone being homosexual, I'm not going to judge them on that basis & assume they're evil, bad, etc. I saw their hatred in a totally new light. I had left them but stayed in my then marriahe, hoping it could work. Shortly after, I suffered a stroke. I was told it happened because I walked out from under God's protection. Oh they came over & brought food, etc. but not without stressing that it was ONLY because my then husband was a true believer & they only cared about his well being spiritually & hence were doing all this for him. That event really woke me up. I finally realized I had to get out. With the help of a very good co-worker who was a Christian I was able to get help & get out for good. I found strong support & finally saw there were still good people out there. Today, I am Interfaith, married to a man who shares in my beliefs & does not love me only if I share his. I read things for myself & that includes other texts than the KJV, etc. I appreciate people more & have really learned how hard it is to be secluded & discriminated against. So now I'm much stronger. It was hard, but worth the fight to get out, get strong & get moving with life!!!!! Vyctorya

I started in 1995 but was never Corps. I left in 2000. I recall hearing about the reduction in pay & the cuts, etc., but as I remember we were only told that it was to ensure that the money wasn't being spent slothfully & they wanted to oversee God's money better. Vyctorya

For me, in a way it was like Helter Skelter, being in the Manson family. The extreme control they seemed to have on us was heavy. You went through it thinking it was "THE" way for life & the answer to everything when all the while it was simply mind control to get you to do what they wanted - give money, devote every part of your life to them & them only.