Vyctorya911

I think the information in the link Cool Waters explains it pretty detailed & logically. It's the most reasonable thing I've seen. Vyctorya

This is cool...

If I saw genuine remorse, it would mean some to me. However, I would need to see the apology backed up with a lot of action to make amends (teaching correct doctine, not expecting all our money, not ruling us like we're incompetent fools, etc) before I took the apology as sincere. I do believe people can change. I also believe in forgiveness. But it would take a lot of convincing. I still would not go back, but at least I would know they were sorry & correcting their mistakes. Vyctorya

I don't think they are breeding immaturity per say buut they are setting people up for quite a reality check. The young people mainly hear & believe only what they are taught by TWI people without considering any other points of view. There is certainly more "truth"& more to learn than what is in their teachings. So I think overall they are not giving much room to really grow & learn. That certainly can & does make it hard when trying to develop relationships (work, personal, etc). It also makes it hard to get along with others & impossible to think for yourself. Vyctorya

Have any of you read the recently published Gospel of Judas that was found? If so what are your thoughts & how do you think TWI would respond to it?

"So, what is it? What makes someone want to get involved with a church or a group? Having had the experiences with TWI that you did....what is your criteria now?" For me, I will not be a part of any group who mocks other religions, mocks others because of what they believe or who they are. I do not consider that to be very loving. I now prefer an Interfaith group. I may not always agree with a Muslim or a Jewish person, et.al, but nor will I condemn them because they are of that faith. I now prefer to be part of a group where we stand together because we love God & want to be better people. Vyctorya

I would say that now I am much more attentive to who I listen to regarding the Bible. I am also less critical of others & more accepting of people of other races & sexual preference. It took me a long time to see that just because someone believes differently than I do, does not mean they are ignorant, less deserving of respect or less of a person. TWI was very good at putting others down who did not believe as they did. I can now look outside of the box & see that God is bigger than just TWI & the limitations that they set on Him. Vyctorya

The only thing that I recall (vaguely) was something from LCM in the 90's about the reason for the holacaust was to cause people to turn against Germany, forgetting the good that Martin Luther did with his thesis. As I said, the details are vague but it was something to that effect during a SNS between 95-01. Vyc

Oh sure, we were expected to be tough, standing strong & not conforming to anyone's belief's but theirs. Stand up & be a man............................EXCEPT when it came to housework. I can't recall how many times I heard the phrase "The woman is the keeper of the home." So when it came to handling things at home, that was a woman's job. Vyctorya

I can tell you that as of 2000 this was still going on. My ex was the exact same way. Now in our case, on several occassions "leadership" would step in, but not many. Example. I love watching WWE Wrestling. I liked to go to the sports bar at the bowling alley to watch the pay per views. He insisted that the only reason he "let" me go was to witness to least 3 people. C'mon, who wants to hear that during a sports event? But that didn't mattter. I constantly heard that he was the head & I had to submit to him no matter what. Once when he felt I wasn't submissive & thought I was possessed by "devil spirits" he started trying to "cast them out" of me claiming that it was his responsibility to do so as the head of the house. No one stepped in on this! That was when I started looking at my options to get out. Vyctorya

I know exactly what you're going through. When I first got out I felt as if no one could understand because no one knew what I'd been taught & what I'd gone thru spiritually & emotionally. A sales rep in the company I worked for was a good Christian man. I confided in him with my concerns & fears. He went over & above by finding a former Wayfer follower to talk with. He then asked my permission to have this person contact me. I allowed this & when I spoke to the ex Wayfer he helped me tremendously. He helped me understand so many things that no counselor could. From there I was able to begin searching for things myself. I took time to figure out what I believed, how I felt about various things they had pushed down my throat. I also took time to figure out what I wanted spiritually. That took me to an interfaith belief which is where I remain today. So it started out difficult, but took me to a place of acceptance & respect for others. It also helped me see what I wanted & needed in my life. If it weren't for my co-worker & that 1 ex Wayfer, I may never have gotten out & stayed out. Nor would I have been able to get past the hurt & damage caused.

Well, leopards don't change their spots. I doubt seriously that anyone still in that organization is sincerely sorry for anything they've done. If they are talking about sorrow now, it's simply a new marketing technique to get their roster back up. People who run cults are exceptionally good at playing to an audience, knowing exactly what emotional heartstring to play to & how to motivate people. As for them having a more accurate understanding of God's word or however you want to word it, they don't. Since leaving I have studied it myself in depth. Most of their doctrine is their view & does not have actual backing. I know some may say I am bitter. I certainly am not. I wish them the best. However, their practices, treatment of others outside their own little family & spiritual abuse of people was, for me, unacceptable. When I'm told that my stroke was a direct result of my disobedience to God & all my fault, that I cannot associate with my family because they are not in the household, that the only reason to go out & enjoy myself is to witness, that if I'm not giving everything financially that I do not need, that I have to send my leader a schedule every week of all activities then again after the week is up showing what I did & did not do, study for x number of hours per day, not own a home, not have credit cards, not buy a car unless I pay cash, to submit to my husband even though he was performing exorcisms on me thinking I'm possessed, to not associate with any homosexual because they are full of devil spirits, that Catholics are evil. that the Pope is evil, that their doctrine is right & everyone else is wrong, that those who do not accept Christ are doomed to hell, that others cannot associate at all with you when you're "mark & avoid" is simply WRONG. For any minister or ministry to take advantage of people in that way is unacceptable. And yes, I endured ALL of that for 5 long miserable years. It took 3 people, 2 of which were once in the Way, several books & great support from my friends just to get me to pick up a book on cults & spiritual abuse & see it for myself. And there is no apology in the world, no amount of money that could ever make me want to go back. I can move on, I can wish them the best, but I cannot ever believe they are sincere. If they are acting that way now it's only because they have seen that how they are handling things now is not working. Should we go back? That's an individual choice. For me, no way. There's too much hurt & mistrust. I do pray for them though & that one day they can see through the clouds & accept people as Jesus did & does, unconditionally.

I have no problem trusting God. That's one thing I'll never give them the satisfaction of! I do have a problem trusting denominations & their leaders.

Paul separating the disciples is not "proof" that their first priority was "moving the word." That could be takem any number of ways, including the possibility that they were the equivilant of today's missionaries. Jesus Christ mainly "hung out" with 12 disciples. Those 12 left their careers, homes, etc. to follow him. But. that does not mean those that did not walk with him on a daily basis did not want to commit themselves to it. Not everyone can spend every bit of their time "moving the word." That calling is not for everyone. As for the term "moving the word," I really do not think it's a term with much power. I personally feel it was a phrase used by TWI for motivational & influential purposes. Vyctorya

My personal thinking in this is that after all the trouble with LCM, The Way leadership knew that they needed someone in the presidency that was more mellow appearing, softer, etc. Rosalie had been faithful to the ministry many years & was a good choice given what they needed. She could provide a much softer tone & less center of attention & scandal.

I took the advanced class on WA&P & still required to have no debt & no mortgage. I left in the year 2000. My then husband & I were having problems because I wanted out of the ministry. I suffered a stroke that year & both my then hubby & the way said it was because I was walking out from under God's protection & not submitting to my hubby. After that I had enough & left him & the ministry & have had no regrets about it.

Funny, if you look at the Miscellanous report but the different months their memnership roster has greatly increased. But, if you look at their profit & loss it's shrinking in profit. Additionally, in the technology report as of June 2005 they state they did not have a web site. I thought it had been up for at least a year? Vyctorya

If I recall I think I remember him mentioning it sometime soon after I got in the Way in 1994. I think he said the cia or ATF was responsible or something like that because they had people who worked in that office & supposedly were told to stay home that day. I cannot say with certainty though. I do know it wuld be on a SNS tape from 1994 for sure because he went off on it one night, Vyctorya

This was given to me by a friend last night & I wanted to share it with y'all. Vyctorya The world might say that there are many reasons why God wouldn't want to use you or me. But don't worry: Moses stuttered. David's armour didn't fit. John Mark was rejected by Paul. Hosea's wife was a prostitute. Amos' only training was in the school of fig-tree pruning. Solomon was too rich. Abraham was too old. David was too young. Timothy had ulcers. Peter was afraid of death. Lazarus was dead. John was self-righteous. Naomi was a widow. Paul was a murderer. So was Moses. So was David. Jonah ran from God. Miriam was a gossip. Gideon and Thomas both doubted. Jeremiah was depressed and suicidal. Elijah was burned out. John the Baptist was a loudmouth. Martha was a worrywart. Mary was lazy. Samson had long hair. Noah got drunk. Did I mention that Moses had a short fuse? So did Peter, Paul - well, lots of folks did. But God doesn't require a job interview. He doesn't hire and fire like most bosses because He's more like our dad than our boss. God doesn't look at financial gain or loss. He's not prejudiced or partial, not judging, grudging, sassy or brassy, not deaf to our cries, not blind to our needs. As much as we try, God's gifts are free. We could do wonderful things for wonderful people, and still not be wonderful. God looks back and sees the cross. He doesn't calculate what you did in '78. It's not even on the record. Sure, there are lots of reasons why God shouldn't want us. But if we are utterly in love with Him, if we hunger for Him more than our next breath, He'll use us in spite of who we are, where we've been or what we look like. Step out of your limitations and into the unlimitable nature of who God is.

It's not surprising. The Way kids are so secluded from how life in the "real world" actually works that when they do go to collegeg or start work & get away from their family they see outside the box of the household & realize how sheltered they've been & finally just decide to get away. It's sad really because these kids have no clue what other kids are like. They can't associate with other kids of other religions, at least not enough to learn about it. The dare not associate with homosexuals & they do not know how to deal with it when they start work & have no choice. They are taught from child up that the only reason to associate with those "outside of the household" is to witness to them & bring them to fellowship. All of that makes it very hard when they do get out on their own because they've been in such a fantasy world. Vyctorya

25 points here Vyctorya

Does TWI still own Gunnison? I found this today & it's kind of odd they'd do timeshares at Gunnison if they own it nuless they're desparate for money. http://www.timeshares.com.ar/resort/CAMP+G...Y+HOUSEHOL/2735

If anyone knows how or even if anyone has any old Way class syllabuses, SNS tapes and/or books they do not want, I'd be interested in aquiring them. When I left my then spouse I was unable to get them out of his grip. I have since remarried & would like to be able to show my husband their doctrine to read for himself so he can understand the things I was "mistaught" & help me through some rough spots. If anyone can help or point me in the right direction I'd appreciate it. Vyctorya

The Way of Abundance and Power --- Singing Ladies of the Way --- 1996 This recording I know has Claudette Royal on it. I don't recall the others. I bellieve it came out the year they rolled out The Way of Abundance & Power series and/or when it was their theme for the year.

It may be a bit much. I think $50 to $75 is good. I understand their logic in some ways. I sell payroll for a careeer. My company charges a minimum of $100 to setup a payroll account. The cost covers the time & attention needed by our staff. Additionally, it gives the end user of our product/service more of a reason to go thru with the service since they've invested something. Typically, more people who have this fee waived do not go thru with the service. So something to show commitment & cover materials is good, but one has to examine it & be sure they are not going overboard. Vyctorya