pond

Ham said he thinks we were trianed to be helpless. yep it is a very close link to the co-depency issues many in our society cope with. codepency is huge for baby boomers. our father drak and it was not an issue drugs were a problem but no one really knew just how and mostly it was a time when "help was not happening or cool. we as a genration had issues... of codepency and that is why the groups like twi were a natural fit for so many. i think a great deal of healing can be had if one chooses to study the effects of co-depency on a soul and apply them to their decisions while involved in twi.

I sold pfal class to be sure and many of my friends and family took the class. I never promoted twi after the class for them, I did ask them if they wanted to go to "fellowship' with me and many did for a awhile a few times then slowly drifted away. I stayed friends with yfriends even if they did not go or take a class. the one guy who was a strict trinitarian had huge issues with me and twi and i blew his concerns off easy as I was never into Jesus being god in the first place but we remained friends then he got involved .. and lost his mind , left the church in which he was very involved , left his long standing girlfriend in whom he was engaged... all out for twi. I watched him change into a different person all together and wehad been frinds for over a decade. he married a girl who wanted to go into the corps with them and this guy had MONEY MONEY MONEY owed a beautiful farm left it all to go in the corps. then i was marked and avoided and he did call me and I told him what happened I thought we were friends . he didnt believe me and called me a liar. ok years later he came back in town for a vist and had the old gang back together for his wifes birthday party few from high went I went I loved him and was happy and had been out of the way for a few years. we could hardly speak, it was so intense the party was nice a catered affair and guess what it was a solid recruitment for twi... I recognize it as such and said you know I am the one who got YOU involved you think i do not see what your doing here a birthday party my butt. his wife was not allowed to speak to me (mind you we were all best buddies before the way for years) this was her birthday party he knew i was not going back. He knew the new leaders coming in to the area and wanted to help them start a class. I was so very upset i could hardly drive home. not that he was so involved or even the sly recruitment under the guise of a birthday party( that was often the case on how they began a class here) it was the fact we were such good friends had been through so much the death of my bro even... and now he would just hate me. then is when i knew twi was not gods ministry or even ever was and told him so. i WILL NEVER BELIEVE GOD WILL HAVE YOU STOP LOVING SOMONE FOR hIM. EVER. i heard he is clergy now and i still have the little card he gave me as I left that day of the area leaders. how do I feel. honestly I do not today regret or feel shame about having so many take pfal, it was a bible class and you know we were all young and stuid some sold drugs i sold pfal im ok with who I am. I miss my friend and I know they never had kids by choice becuase of their desire to "move the word" put god first yadayada. I tried to tell him he wouldnt hear me to get out and im also very ok with that. I hope they are happy , i learned a long time ago Im not responsible for what others choose to do in their life.

my girl kitty sits near me and lets me pet her a little bit or lay my head on her just for a moment she isnt a reall cuddly cat just a be near me kind of girl. she is twelve now and I have had her since 4 weeks so it might be her personality. if she stiffs cat nip she passes out cold, it isnt good for her at all . He on the other hand snorts bowls of the stuff and then pees on his strach strip every time and looks aghast at the whole routine soo we cant do cat nip any more.

he went to catholic school and was a very strict trinitarian. read whact was written although I write poorly here. my point is I loved him when he believed Jesus was God but he could not love me knowing I didnt believe Jesus was God and that is typical trinitarian fare. they will have issues with those who do not believe Jesus is god because (I guess) to them your dening God altogether, but in addition to my other post.. I will add this thought. The way denied who Jesus is also, he may not be God in my estimation but He certainly is much more than what the way ever offered as His position. so I think the strict trinity position and the way position is very much the same and neither one puts what our Saviour puts as our first commandment to Love God and one another etc.. in the place it should be .

I just have to say somethingabout this. I was born and raised in the baptist church, we were taught Jesus Christ was the Son of God no trinity metioned and i went to church every week of my youth and was very involved in the youth fellowship pior to twi. So when I entered twi mindset it was ok with me it flowed with my religous beliefs and teachings since a baby that Jesus was and is the Son of God only. But I had friends who attended catholic school very strict trinity people.. and they saw what the way wassaying to me the diffference between the baptist church and the way is the way made PLATFORM that jesus was not God like a big deal, didnt effect me becauseit was no news flash to me. but my friends had huge issues with it, I never read JCNG because why would I he wasnt? but my buddy went to bat for the trinity up and down and side ways with me and clergy at the time.... my buddy took the class and guess what changed his mind and decided twi was right and left the church much to his family sadness and angry feeling towards me. This was a best friend and I got many many of my high school chums in but he and his wife stayed and as far as I know and it has been maybe ten years since we last spoke and all he wanted to do was sell twi.. funny i stayed friends with him when he wasnt involved but he would not return the love . sad about that. he left his family his church everyone he knew and loved because of his now changed position on this trinity bit. now i told him you know you believed in the trinity and I never even knew what it was yet we were best friends now you switched and decide all of a sudden Jesus is NOT God and wont speak to me because of this doctrine THAT IS MESSED UP! so even tho I never gave this doctrine much study this i do know, strict trinitarians are just that strict they believe what they believe and to say Jesus is not God is blahphemy in the highest order. Not so with those who believe Jesus is the Son of God. I have had many many conversations on this with many people and I have found many many groups who do not believe Jesus is God rather the Son. But when a die hard trinitarian switches and somehow "see's the light " they are very serious about it. it is not that important to me never has been an issue in my relationship with God or on a spiritual level but to those who have been or are in the head thinking Jesus is God well I can see how one who says NO I do not believe that denies God altogether and it is the basic core of what a christian is to them./ for me if that is the case then I really do not have a big problem with it , but they will with my idea that He is the Son every time. JJ is a strict trinitarian and does voice this mind set clearly he also has had issues with the JW for this very same issue and cosniders them a cult. For me it lessens his authoriy on any subject becuase I know how stuck trinitarians are int their thinking and i do not believe the agruement but wont agure it I believe it is the Lords work to teach another on who He is not mine. this is NOT from way teaching for me I was not taught JCNG in the way but rather from the baptist church. In fact I never even knew some thought Jesus was God till i got in the way. what if "he was wrong" well this is not a twi doctrine nor is it exclusivly JCNG book that instructs this as doctrine Pawtuckets but trinitarians wont know that untill they get out of the idea that is as deep as mine that he isnt, to leave the trinity mind set basicly means leaving family and church doctrine and is serious i get that.. not so much for those who where never indoctrinated to believe it in the first place. and many more think they think Jesus is God till you ask them to break it down and they do not know what the bible says remotely. difficult to explain but those who do NOT believe Jesus is God do not study why He isnt any more than a strict trinitarian is willing to understand how Jesus can not be God. for both group it is a very difficult stretch of the imagination to consider. For me is Jesus is God Im ok with that and could carry on faithfully. but I do not believe it because of doctrine I have known since a youth that has played out in my spiritual life. For those who Believe Jesus is God I can see and understand why they would worry about your concern. clearly.

the way tried to be the authority on everything and had the ONLY truth on every topic and subject. No organization can be the sole educator of every issue or subject . they tried to be the ony solution talk about controling what ya think . I do not think a bible class and this type of "education" is needed . So somone has "sexual issues" so take this class? yeah not a good solution IMO.

ok I took that class I have the papers in my note book . I remember where I took it and i do not remmeber vpw in it , it was taught by the BC not the LC at the time. like the renewed mind class no vpw it was walter C live and then the LC wife (i didnt take it that time) I think I do not know this was early 80's they ran so many classes constantly in this city and surrounding areas because they had folks they wanted to go into the corps and needed them to fullfill the classes first. Is that a fact? before you entered the corps did ya have to finish all the classes? not trying to derail. really just curious. the manner pfal was sold to me was you aint "there" till you go into the corps and so many did right after taking pfal . or at least tried , what are the 'requirements " to go into the corps then?

I can echo everything you state here concerning the accusations made by some here about the sexual rapes and abuse cant I? good thoughts there and I do think everyone should consider such reasoning when reading the many posts here about whatever strikes a posters fancy! hmmm good job dooj

I can about as much as those who make accusations of long dead people and others on the internet. With nothing but their say so. you first ok? what does anyone have to "back up" the many stories here?

His creation Dooj yes . Im sure but their is conditions and applications to be dealt with as His creations decides for its own self which God to worship God loves always yet he has his own boundaries and choices that are to be worshiped with Him , such as Romans 10 and 9. faith is up to the individual to display before God only . He chooses Love, some people do not , can God hate oh yes but not His own . Rascal concerning your opinion about who isnt choosen of God to life eternal it isnt up to you to decide, that may be why you were not the one and only begotten son of God ya think?

God is good to all you know he just loves all of his creation. but those who refuse to consider His position, have enabled their own designs and plans which work for them. we have laws we have rules of behaviour set by society etc. Intent is often tested in the trials and is often what determines the type of conviction in America. some can and do decide for others and you can do as you like but in America we can not really rule as a Monarchy we are a system set up for the common good determined by the people be it as it is. Indeed thoughts and actions an individual performs in life bring consequences if one believes another should die for what he/she did they can kill them and suffer the consequence of prison time or even death their own self. In Ny we have the death penalty available, if one kill another because he feels or thinks he/she deserves Justice by their own hand INDEED they an lose their own life in the doing of it. we chose what we want to do really but we do have boundaries and balance set in place by the laws of the land.

the areas of forgivness and vengence are given special certain commandments from the Lord. vengence belongs to HIM only and we are to fogive 70X7. does that mean we become victims for Christ? no it means we follow His will for our life and if we all took better care to follow His set standards all the strife and division would lessen but we will have trial and temptations he knows this he was here he lived in this world He OVERCAME this world we need not worry.

your example of one child being a victim, we are NOT to remain stupid and child-like in our understanding of God. God warns us when harm is near Jesus blazes a path of right living for each and every one of us, sure we can get lost and come to harm but that doesnt mean we stay their we ask God to help we seek the Lords will in life,and we face trials knowing what Jesus went through in his life and can and is able to help us now today with ou own learning process. we are growing up. we must learn to grow and we have a father who wants us to learn and grow that is why I worship HIM . you have told your child not to play on the highway but one day he did and got run over by a car is it you who hurt him? no of course not it was disobeience and sin that hurts us but Jesus is on a mighty throne and can handle us just fine because he loves us so very much. nice post. yes I agree we are not to be ignorant of Satan and how he can kill steal or destroy, and it is our JOB to sek the Lord on what should I do to make my life good and happy. we seek His will and I believe His will is for us to be safe and happy and blessed. we all fall short is the topic of the thread INDEED and that is why we have a Saviour who we follow and not one another and what or who we wish would be God in life.

God does want us ignorant we are to study and pray and seek Him. God is with us Jesus has sent a comforterto guide us we are not left alone in this dark cold world to fend off behaviours that are not Godly . but vengence belongs to the LORD clearly he is the King of Kings who can decide what Justice must be done, not us we do see things darkly today and that is exactly why the Lord says vengence belongs only to Him and commands us to love and serve oneanother.

how does the Lord forgive? as far as the east is from the west. that is the standard Jesus set . how an individual who claims Jesus is Lord forgives depends on his ability to follow Jesus's commandment to forgive somone 70X 7 times.

If you believe vpw "belongs to the church" as you say that means he will be in the kingdom and be healed at the throne of Jesus and we are to forgive him as Jesus did. the church is the body of christ . no not at all scary not at all it is the most beautiful gift Jesus ever paid for me and you and vpw. The body of Christ does sin indeed given in this day we have choices and two natures to chose from that is why we can ask forgivness and receive it as the power of the risen christ grants us all such priviledge. is that scary to you? I know you do not like it lol

IM not trying to blow off a discussion.. I do not have time. but if Jesus is God and God killed Jesus your saying God killed His self to help His creation? I do not believe it . do i believe god is Good yes always and He can turn evil situation or behaviours into Good if one choses to OBEY His will. I believe God gives us all including Jesus a choice to Worship or not. oh i happen to believe God is a warm and fuzzy very warm and fuzzy and most of all Right.

ordained yes indeed ordained YET it was a choice . Jesus could have said I aint giving my life for no one they aint worth it . but he did not , he loved us as sinners when we were in fact worthy of the death adam sought in the garden. Jesus christ is the ONLY as in ONLY ONE begotten Son. He did the Fathers will and obeyed because he so loved us. I have great difficulty reconciling the fact you believe God would murder His only child who loved and obeyed Him for a butch of sinners who proved they could not or would not listen to Him. I would be afraid of your God I would run from that type of God . the frame is love see for me, God loved Jesus so much He promised Him eternal life and the eternal life of mankind if he would only believe He (God) loved us. Jesus loved us so much He obeyed till the death knowing full well it met torture and having to be away from those he cared so deeply about . He trusted God and loved us . enough to trust God and he didnt know He would rise again He didnt know the gift to us would come till after he was risen . He just trusted God so very much he laid down his life for a maybe something good will come out of it. He wanted good things for us his peeps I smile as I gleefully exclaim and praise His holy name because he sure won the big prize for us all. God is God he created us, I do not believe he made his creation to kill them.

I agree with that and understand how frightening it would be to deny Jesus as God if one believes in the trinity . absolutly. it would mean I deny God and reject his will for life. possibly burn in hell I suppose by your terms . thank you for loving me in your post. but Im convinced and I also believe many of those who believe Jesus is God may see the very grace Jesus paid for with his choice of obeying God till the very end.

your position is one of Jesus being God. I also understand the position but disagree. in your post you leave the man Jesus no choice to live or die and actualy claim your God is the one who planned and orchestrated a murder with His Hand. My God is love and not in a mystical love what does that mean kind of love. I mean He loves me He created me as he must have created Jeuss in your mind to KILL HIM? I reject the notion. I believe Jesus is seperate from God a real live man a second adam of sorts and Jesus made the choice to lay down his life in obedience to Gods will to show us how to trust and obey a God who cares so very deeply for us all. I believe He lives in much authority today in this world and the one to come because of that very choice. It was not Gods choice it was adams in the garden to chose . he chose wrong all of mankind got into a mess with sin which is death itself. God wanted that fact that Bad choice of adams to stop to go away he didntwant his children to die EVER! The first Adam made the choice and God loves him so much He can not just UNDO it, so the second man came the second adam got another shot at listening to Gods will and obeying and he succeeded and what was the outcome? LIFE FOR all! who believe Jesus christ did the fathers will and was RAISED from DEATH. Death is God arch enemy and Jesus WON the victory over what? DEATH! no my God knows how many hairs I have on my head and would NEVER harm me.

I agree God would not have his people ignorant . WE are to be aware yet innocent .

We make choices for our life that involve Judgementsof the situation of people of the climate of anything we think will help or harm us . that is easy to understand. I chose a pink paint on my wall another chooses blue... I chose to work at this place another wants that type of job. He is a PERSONAL Saviour we get to chose when we obey or not and how we live life. Condemation is not judgement. I hate you you deserve to die for liking the color blue. or as a gs crowd would understand , most of us like pink we hate blue so your wrong we are right. nah it doesnt work that way in the real world. we have laws and courts to convict crimes we have a series of standards accepted by society as a people ALL people. Some have the christian standard of the bible and the theory we allow Jesus to Judge the many trials of God people. we can and do make judgements for our own life mostly, and as a people we can judge another worthy of a certain punishment (time in jail) cant not drive a car etc. In America we are EQUALS. In both cases we have decided a certain standard that has the boundarys in which we will obey or suffer consequences. But we really connot condem one another . I cant say be gone YOU who bothers me because I like the color PINK and you do not. Nor can I say I think this about that person and it is found to be a truth in our courts of law or before the very throne of Jesus Christ.

Jesus gave up his life, he could have lived, he was offered the entire world by satans hand , and said no he wanted to be with His Fathers will. He always obeyed . Jesus gave HIS LIFE because he loves us that much. God didnt Kill anyone , it was again the CHOICE of Jesus Christ to die because HE believed God would raise him from DEATH and guess what He was spot on RIGHT> he won the victory HE WON what? ETERNAL LIFE FOR ALL OF MANKIND if YOU believe GOD made Jesus LORD of mankind by raising him from the DEATH of Mankind. God didnt KILL anyone He gave us all life . even after we chose DEATH for our own self , he gives us another chance through Jesus to live with Him for eternity. suffice to say we wholly disagree on that!

the events of the crucifixion had to be played out in the manner they were, Jesus had to be betrayed, to be arrested , go to court and be brought before his own people who decided he was the one to die. It was not the ruler of the city(he found nothing to try the man) who convicted Jesus he brought him to the crowd of JEWS who condemed Jesus it was his own people who BETRAYED their own Christ. He was crowned King of the JEWS and tried for blahphemy Jesus was murdered by Gods people they had the choice to allow one man to go free and they chose to crucify Jesus that day and allow the man who was conficted of murder to go free. that is why the apostles and discliples HID inthe upper room for fear of the jews. It was not the enemy of God who killed His only begotten Son it was his own people. he was considered guilty of blasphemy and sentenced to die for it. this was his own religous people demanding Justice. you speak of betrayal? it was those who saw and witnessed in person his miricles his love his ministryhis teachings who said he deserved to die. We all have consequence in life, that is why we seek Jeuss as Lord and need a God, consequences are due to the fact we make CHOICES that involve pain and hurt. God does not punish anyone today nor does Jesus Christ he is the Saviour of mankind not the mafia leader. it would change the topic to begin about rewards and damation at the throne of Jesus now on this thread.. but suffice to say it has nothing to do with how we should behave towards another now , our commandment is clear we are to love and serve one another. to seek God etc. or be as those who crucified the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON of God once again.

Nice post Ben I hope you feel better soon. I just have one thing to add on a much simpler note. since we brought up the fact of 50 or something or other I say Now I am willing to step back and consider... the impulse of youth grants indulgence of learning, and I have had more than one lesson I will NEVER go through THAT experience again. so I learned. my point is I have confessed to be a christian for forty years now, and when i was youger days I could point a finger and say right wrong right wrong.. not so today I have learned the Lord works in some crazy mixed up fried and any other word you want world. He is able He truly is, and to "get the job done" he works within a mix of souls blessing us all . I would be amiss to say I get all people or understand all people but I can clearly know the LORD does and he works with each of his children just were they are at hence it makes for a new creation like I have yet to understand or at times even like but do indeed recognize. I preach not tolerance but understanding the ways of god are a mystery to us as it should be or we would tell the enemy satan all the secrets to get us out of this "fleshy " thought process and he in turn would fight harder and more bastardly to hurt the mission that Jesus seeks today.