I Love Bagpipes

Thank ee dmiller! The pic didn't come through on my puter....I know....I need to get a Mac. It's a cult...the Mac Cult. I appreciate you and think of you whenever I hear Natalie. Know you are prayerfully and thankfully thought of. :) CW

(I received this in an email and it is my cup of tea. Thought ya'll might enjoy it too!!) I am passing this on to you because it definitely worked for me and we all could use a little more calmness in our lives. By following the simple advice heard on the Dr Phil Show, I have finally found inner peace. Dr. Phil proclaimed, "The way to achieve inner peace is to finish all the things you've started and never finished." So I looked around the house to see all the things I started and hadn't finished, and before leaving this morning, I finished off a bottle of Merlot, a bottle of White Zinfandel, a bottle of Bailey's Irish Cream, a bottle of Kahlua, a package of Oreo's, the remainder of my old Prozac prescription, the rest of the cheesecake, some M&M's and a box of chocolates. You have no idea how freaking good I feel! Please pass this on to those you feel might be in need of inner peace!!!!

Enjoyed the interview and the music! Thank you for making it so user friendly...even with dial up. :)

Thanks JL (and PT in chat), Somehow my puter corrected itself.....I didn't even lay hands on it....just fingertips. I will keep this info on hand jl to refer to. Thanks! ILB

Chas U Farley, MAL was an anacronym for More Abundant Living pack which was the survival pack topoftheworld posted about. I remember a book that was used entitled "Survival with Style" about wilderness living with some comforts. Along this same topic, it would bug me when TWI troubles were explained as TWI being attacked by the adversary because of its stand on the Word. When ex/non-wayfer groups or people had troubles it was because they weren't in the household. Huh? I bought that lie for way too long.

Yes Paw, Internet Ex. Also a Norton Security High Risk Alert pops up at the same time. I have no idea what a cache in my browser means. What should I do? Thanks

I do not want to jump into the depth of this thread (for derail it) but must chime in regarding the 4 crucified. Four crucified was very significant to me. I had read the gospels in junior high. Three stated that both men rejected Jesus and one stated that one accepted and one rejected him. No one I asked could clear up the problem for me. So that was one more reason for me not to believe the Bible. (In junior high, I thought Jesus Christ was an ego maniac...really stuck on himself.) That said, 4 years later, I decided to try to believe it (the Bible) anyway. Four crucified helped me see that maybe it could be trusted.

I'm just thinking here. No big problems..or anything. Just thinking. I'll try to put what I'm thinking into words. Some of you folks are really good at putting thoughts into concretion. It can almost be intimidating at times. Since leaving TWI, I seem to care more. I think I've cared all along, just somewhere it got lost. So I got to wondering how that happened, the spiral to apathy and complacency that results in wearing blinders. [My personal belief is that folks start off wanting to do the right thing...somewhere in the deep past (no matter how dark the current attitude/behaviour) that person wanted to do/believe/act on what was right.] Anyway.... Legalistic systems (like TWI) teach/practice perfectionism and unrelenting standards. Order becomes more important than meeting the needs of the people. The constant striving to do things better and better depletes the zest and joy and enthusiasm for living. So a person goes from wanting to serve to, "Why try? Whatever I do is never good enough." The why try eventually results in apathy and complacency. A person who was motivated to love and serve now strives to overcome apathy and tries to motivate him/herself. The focus becomes me saving myself to be good enough to do the perfectionistic work, to be motivated, to be joyful. But it can't be met, because it is a perfectionistic standard. The focus becomes betterment of character & discipline. (Biblical principles to succesful living replace wholeness in Jesus Christ's finished work.) Therefore, one response, is "I simply don't matter.....And if I don't matter, then you don't really matter either." (However, this attitude is not a conscious thought...but has subtley crept in.) Does the perfectionism lead to the complacency? Does the complacency happen because one feels his/her actions are so insignificant (because the actions never result in meeting the perfectionistic standard), that they cannot have any real impact? At that point, individuals are no longer valued, because life itself has become insignificant. And if life becomes insignificant, other's sufferings are insignificant. :( And thus the blinders. And if this is just a bunch of analytical BS , please accept my humble apologies.

My computer will not let me in the Open Forum or into Today's Active Topics. My screen pops up with "page cannot be displayed." It won't refresh and it won't let me go back. What might it be? Is anyone else having trouble? Thanks. :)

(Oh geez...I just wrote a reply and went to post it and it went out in cyberspace somewhere. :blink: So I'm gonna' try another time. It's just harder after that initial inspiration...ya' know?) Thanks again!!!! You guys have been grand and I have read and reread these posts. I have considered and acted upon some of them. Chunks of perspective (yours) have helped me see that these chunks are not so much an intrusion as necessary realizations, stuff that needs to be jostled around, dug up, looked at, and honored. It's comforting that I don't have to understand it all (the chunks) or be able to explain it. You guys KNOW it because you have lived it. The connections have been awesome..the emails, phone calls, PMs, posts, and chats. I've allowed myself to be engrossed with GSC these past weeks and (for me) I have posted a lot(your suggestion ). I have revisted 2 of my docs (your prompting ). I have bared my soul and you have honored and respected that and have been kind with my heart. I know you know the vulnerabilty one feels when one decides to share on these forums. It is a HUGE step for me to be so public with my inner workings and vulnerabilities. Thank you for honoring that and for your kindness and respect. I know this healing happens in cycles, layers, etc. As part of this process I've decided to take a GSC fast. (But I probably won't fast from chat. :) ) I don't know for how long. I'm gonna' take some time and try to wrap my mind around some other stuff and see what emerges (your suggestions ) I applaud you! And may I add, "Yea God!!!" So thanks many times over. And let me know where I need to send the payment for the services!! ^_^

Okay....but it's not as good as the cone stowey!!!! My daughter & I are driving along a street in the largest city in our humble state. I make a wrong turn onto a 3-lane road that cuts through to another main road. Well, I don't want to go that direction. The speed limit is 35 on the road that I incorrectly turned onto, so cars aren't traveling fast. None the less, there are cars. Now I am a VERY safe driver with the best insurance rate...so don't go thinking I am putting our lives in danger here. I calculate if I can make a u-ee, estimating the space and the amount of traffic. Well, with the space I underestimate. My tank of a van doesn't make the u-ee so that I can fully be on the road. Two wheels are on the sidewalk and two on the road. There is some traffic behind us and I don't want to make some freaky, jerky movement...I mean we could flip or cause some comotion. So I drive along the sidewalk until I get to a bank driveway to safely manuever back into the lane. It was probably only about 200 to 300 feet. But it was memorable. I asked my daughter if the incident made her nervous. She responded, "No; it was actually fun. " You know what that means.... And I confess..I have driven between the orange and white barrells on more than one occasion. But I have never had the audacity (OMG) to remove the cones!!! heeeee PS: Dmiller...for some reason it worked this time. But of all things I'm on the Windows 95 instead of the XP. Go tell.?

Thanks to each of you. Thanks for the PMs. Thanks for the phone calls. Thanks for chat!! It's absolutely magnificent to discover the smorgasborg of fellowship, reunions, grace, sense of unity in spite of differences.....all that good stuff that got lost from me. Its good to trust again, to deeply feel again, to truely hope again, to KNOW God loves ME!! That's part of the reason you have continued to post.....

Hi DJS! Good to see you again. After reading your post I checked again on the info I had received. This person stated that it was announced and told her/him this month by the HFC that is $100.00 for grads and there was no family plan. The person didn't know about student cost. Apparently there is some confusion in the ranks. Apologies if I sent out wrong information. :blink:

Naughty Momma. I gotta tell my kids this one. They've heard your name over the years. My daughter likes to tell the one about me driving on the sidewalk. : We could all put the cones on our heads for hats and be cone heads.... well okay...

TS is X-Files and Star Trek okay? "The Truth is Out There" Yeah that whole mindset of everything having to have a profit (according to TWI standards) has been rough on me over the years. My kids have helped me to keep some of that religion at bay. But still it is in me, in no small way. Rascal wrote: "You have been in a major battle for your life. You have spent years in survival mode, years thinking, planning, finally the drama of escape....the fears accompanied with leaving, the battle to understand what went wrong...." That REALLY struck home and helped me. 24 of the 28 years in TWI I battled ill health. A little over a year ago, that BATTLE ended. (The beginning to that end started 6 years ago.) A big struggle in my life was over and for a while I felt lost. It was at that time that the big hole in my heart surfaced. I thought maybe the hole was because my biggest goal (wellness) had, for the most part, been fulfilled. As time went on, the hole grew. Then I realized the hole was my relationship with God; I was living a lie. So now this next HUGE goal of leaving TWI and building MY relationship with my personal God and LJC is emerging. In the last 1-1/2 years myl ife has dramatically changed. (And my kids are growing older..you know, different relationship than when you laid in bed with 'em reading "Are You My Mother?" ...SNORT!!!) Thanks so much for reminding me of this. Groucho...love the sore thumb analogy. In my profession I work with preschoolers...sort of reminded my of something they'd say. (That is not a blow to your intelligence! :) I believe preschoolers are very intelligent and I learn from them regularaly.) Simplicity...uncomplicated....gentle. Doglover...ohhh..dear Doglover. Thank you for loving this old dog. I know I can call you. And thanks for all those hours this past weekend. I didn't want them to end. Sorry you were so tired. But I know it was a good tired...and we laughed a lot. And yeah, it helps. Funny, I turned to The Amplified this past summer. Just couldn't take some of KJV...cetain patterns and emotions it would bring up...didn't even want to read it. Of all things I read Isiah right before my official leave...confirmed lots of the stuff I was on the verge of doing. And to anyone else I didn't respond to with thanks, thank you. And thanks for taking the freaking time to read all this jibberish I'm spitting out. Never would have thunk that I'd be posting my inner thoughts and churnings on a public site!! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Goodness....the outpouring of empathy is so different from the responses I would get if still in TWI. Thank you for listening. Skyrider....I did go dancing!! This past Saturday. Danced my back right out of whack, but had a blast doin' it! Thanks JL. I do have a few close contacts who I have spent time with via phone. Talking & posting are different therapies for me. By publically posting I feel I'm opening up more....something I didn't feel comfortable with in TWI. And I'm not comfortable with it now....but I feel that is one reason I need to do it. Diazbro you really got me thinking. Interestingly I have explored interests outside TWI especially the past 5 years. Yet I haven't felt like I fully involve myself so to speak. I always had to keep myself "in check" just in case I might do something "off the Word". One example is that stuff about opening your heart to "unbelievers" (ie: anyone outside the household). It wasn't until I fully opened my heart to an "unbeliever" that my physical healing kicked into wellness. That was about 6 years ago. I wondered then that if it was so "off the Word" for me to open up, why was I starting to get results? So glad I didn't take that advice (to not open up). But still I kept that "in check" (and still have it) attitude in other stuff I would attend. (Woops my Window 95 just ran out of room. Need to continue on another post) Oh geez...my puter, this old windows 95 is bucking me....I'm gonna switch to the XP as long as my daughter doesn't need it for her paper. :)

In light of Mike's post, I finished reading a book this morning, "The Grace Awakening" by Charles Swindoll and think the following excerpt is appropo. A vision(?) maybe to keep in mind and something for all the splinter groups to keep in mind. The book was updated in 2003. I hope this isn't deemed as . If so apologies. The end of the book states: "In vain I have searched the Bible for examples of early Christians whose lives were marked by rigidity, predictability, inhibition, dullness, and caution. Fortunately, grim, frowning, joyless saints in Scripture are conspicuous by their absence. Instead, the examples I find are of adventurous, risk-taking, enthusiastic, and authentic believers whose joy was contagious even in times of painful trial. Their vision was broad even when death drew near. Rules were few and changes were welcome. The contrast between then and now is staggering. The difference, I am convinced, is grace. Grace scales the wall and refuses to be restricted. It lives above the demnds of human opinion and breaks free from legalistic regulations. Grace dares us to take hold of the sledge of courage and break through longstanding stones. Grace invites us to chart new courses and explore ever-expanding regions, all the while delighting in the unexpected. While others care more about maintaining the wall and fearing those who guard it, grace is constantly looking for ways to freedom. Grace wants faith to fly, regardless of what grim-faced officials may say or think or do. Thank you for walking with me through the pages of this journey. It has been a stimulating challenge to write these thoughts...Perhaps this book is enough to encourage you to join the movement and get you started on your own venture. I hope so. But as you strike out on your own, beware. As surely as Bunyan's hero encountered every test and temptation en route to the Celestial City, you will come up against one legalistic stone after another, each existing for the same purpose: to keep you from the freedom you have in Christ. Whatever you do, don't quit! Press on. It is worth all the effort. The good news is that you are not alone. There is a "grace-awakening" loose in the land. The ranks are swelling. Will you become a part of them? While you take your turn with the sledgehamer and pound away, a host of us are standing near, and some of us may be half a world away, cheering you on. Don't think of it as a lonesome, isolated task. You are breaking through to freedom, and no one is more delighted than the Lord Jesus Christ, who has promised you His grace. Never forget His words: "If therefore the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed." Stay at it. By the grace of Almighty God, the new movement will someday sweep across every continent, and the longstanding wall that has kept people in bondage for centuries will come tumbling down. And we shall all be free. Free in Christ, free indeed. Free at last."

Raf asked, "I was looking for the line that said 'If there's anything we can do to help you, please let us know.' Was that in the excerpted portion of the letter?" That offer was not phrased as such. I guess the author felt the statement in the final paragraph, "...here to assist, encourage and help you attain the goal of becoming an AC graduate" covers the anything we can do to help you. One of my irks is the assumption that that is the goal of the recepient of the letter. The recepient (IMO) would not feel an open door to discuss that this is not the recepient's goal...like anything less than the author's goal is substandard (becasue the author's goal is God's goal). Probably if the recepient brought up his/her desire to NOT attend the class, a very uncomfortable inquiry session would ensue. The recepient would have to come up with justifiable reasons (that would probably be confronted by the inquisitor) as to WHY s/he has made that decision. Again silence reigns, because it is the rare recepient that will want to speak up due to the potential confrontation that it might provoke. "Was that in the excerpted portion of the letter?" The only part left out of the letter is, "The ( ) Branch has several candidates that have expressed interest in attending this class." That is the sentence that starts the 3rd paragraph. Patriot posed the question earlier wondering if this letter was given to ALL candidates. The answer to that is still yes, even though this sentence is contained in the letter. Notice the 4th paragraph, first sentence. "Our goal and believing is for all of the candidates to attend this fantastic AC." Since that is their goal and believing this letter was sent to ALL candidates. What quailifies a candidate? Someone who will be 16 years old by February(?) 2007(?), who has had the new (March, 2006) foundational class (twice) and get all the other classes and home studies in before the academic requirement date (usually a month or so before the actual AC), attends fellowship on a regular basis (2 times(?) per month would be my guess for "regular"), and probably has to be out of debt before the AC...but the debt stuff has not been directly addressed in awhile. Hmmm...in light of all those requirements I can see the logic of a 17 month notice...for those requirements. But not for all that other stuff listed. And please not freaking report backs!!!!!!!! UUGH!! Home Studies are quite extensive (as of 2 years ago). Collaterals (Volumes 1 through 4), JC Is Not God, Are the Dead Alive Now, and RTHST had to be read. Then there were "tests" on each book. One test could be up to 25 (or more) pages long. Patriot probably has more recollection of this than me. Anyway, the tests were sent to a designated Corps person in the state and graded and returned to the student. So home studies would take awhile. The stipulation I didn't like was that you couldn't start the Home Studies until 6 months before the class. If you're a student, that makes it a lot harder (IMO). I felt 9 to 12 months should have been allowed for the home studies. (If someone is gonna' make the rule it should be made so that students can carry it out without compromising other important areas of life....like college/high school studies and jobs.)

Well ex...you knows me be a rule breaker. One of the ones we've had around our place is the "men do not wear caps inside" silliness. My son is naked without his ball cap. Hubby says not to wear it. I side with my son. Guess who wins? Son wears hat. Hubby sees the illogic of idiotic rule. Then it leads to a history discussion and wonderful discourse about cultures and sociology. So...not too long thereafter I take my son to check out a homeschool class at a church. Before we walk in I tell him to take off his cap. (We had that culture/sociology talk and are appopriately applying our graces.) He rolls his eyes and takes it off. We walk into the class. My son rejoices...almost every guy in the class has his baseball cap on! Yee ha!! And we were taught all churches were religious!!! He's still in that class two years later and they still wear their caps...and chew gum. He's lovin' it.

Last year my balding brother (at that time a young 49 years old) was carded in the afternoon at the convenience store while buying some beer. He went out to eat that evening and the waitress asked, "Do you qualify for our Senior Citizen's discount?" Imagine that....young and old...all in one day!!! :blink:

Quadruple plus thanks again. I'm just having a tough month. Before I initially left (end of Ocotber) I was nervous, scared, that kind of stuff. When I "officially" left I was relieved. (Someone in CFF was a great help through all this..and still is.) After about a week or so I felt very alone. Then I read alot and absorbed so much about grace and mercy, that I don't have to live up to some god awful freaking standard in order for God to be pleased with me. I got lots of healing...my heart was getting healed. The hole in my soul was disappearing. I even had a few friends join me (in December and January) in my exit. And now I'm sort of stuck. This recent "chunk" has been hanging around too long. I think I'm angry and a little confused. I'm not motivated to do much of anything. I have suffered from the depths of depression before; but this isn't that. However it probably is mild depression. I do not want to stuff it; I want to allow it to surface and then release it. I know what I "should" do..the steps of self care to take. But I'm not even much motivated to do those. I saw one of my docs today and that helped some. I have thought a GSC fast might be good for me....but then I'm sort of afraid I'll stop the process, the process of allowing myself to feel this "stuff" so that I can release it. I have been trying to connect with "dreams" and "desires" for over a year...and have come up flat time after time. The closest I've come is to leave TWI!!!! I hope I don't sound too dreary. I still laugh and play. But I'm really good this month at neglecting responsibilities. I've thought that maybe I should go spend a week in the woods somewhere...except that it is February. Ex10 you hit something on the head when you wrote, "the silence has been deafening. No?" I cry when I write that. Maybe I just want to be noticed, heard, acknowledged. And I've gotten that here at GSC. I've also gotten it from other folks too. But maybe so many years of that deafening silence hurts deeper than I want to acknowledge. I'm trying to hold it together and maybe I need to let it fall apart. Oh, why does it hurt so much? (That's a rhetorical question.) Well I'm hesitant to posts this reply. But I'm going to post it anyway. Thanks to all of you folkies!

Class shunning? Don't know yet. I know 3 folks who are choosing to not take it "at this time." They have not been shunned. I imagine responses will vary according to the various local leaderships' attitudes. Cost? Not free for WAP grads. Cost is $100.00. I do not know if there is a family plan cost. The syllabus can be purchased without taking the class. Syllabus cost is $7.00. I do not know if one has to be a WAP grad in order to buy the syllabus alone, without taking the class. Debt policy? Apparently not an issue. A person can be in debt and still take the class. Eve lesbo teaching? In an October live WAP class this doctrine was left out of the format. So it may also be left out of the new class, but I don't know for sure. That's all I know for now.

Maybe, just maybe, one day the author(s) of this letter can laugh as heartily as we have at its content. Love that notebook binder clicking. Let's all attend the new foundational March classes and CLICK all at one time!! Follow it with the crunchy chips....

Oh, the tears as I read these posts. I was never "personally" abused in TWI. I was sort of kept in a cocoon. I had good leadership. I wasn't always a good person (i.e.: I didn't tow the line). I loved VPW like a father. I loved LCM like a brother. Neither ever hollared at me, even when I copped out on my Corps commitment (2 times) and my WOW commitment (1 time). They actually extended the odds in my favor. What I learned in PFAL set me free from the religion I was involved in. It answered questions that I had had for years and years. The Word I learned healed my brain cells from drug abuse. Even today, JC Our Passover and JC Our Promised Seed are 2 of my favorite books. Those books painted the sacrifice of the life of my Lord & Saviour. I will probably always cherish those 2 books. (I know I'm only 4 months out, but I think I will always cherish the content of those books.) I found GSC over 2 years ago. My thoughts then? "These people need to move on with their lives." "I just find all this stuff hard to believe. Why can't they just get over it?" "They (GSC posters) are as judgemental as anybody in TWI." "Maybe the women that were involved did so consentually; if so, these men are being blamed unjustly." "These people on GSC need to get a life." "Rosalie & Donna lesbians? Hah! That's hilarious. No way!" "I was in leadership postions. I was in the Corps. I spent two years at root locals. I NEVER saw this stuff." "People have weaknesses (like sex and $$ temptations) and others need to understand that." And on and on....I just couldn't believe most of this stuff or I felt I needed to justify any wrong actions....after all there are two sides to every story. (At the same time I would sort of wonder why TWI didn't tell their side; they just said, "Stay away from the internet.") Then I tried to put myself in the other person's (GSC posters) shoes. (BTW, I learned that from the encounters/teachings I got from VPW.) If these stories on GSC were true, how would I have handled it had it happened to me? Could all these people be lying? Can I admit that I might have been deceived? How do I reconcile my wonderful God times with TWI? What is the fruit? The illnesses with which I dealt so many years, could part of the cause be wrong teaching/practice from TWI? And on and on....many questions. How does one reconcile all this? I don't have any pat answers, and I am very new on this journey. But I KNOW that I can no longer wear blinders. IT IS WRONG. TO FORGET IS WRONG. PEOPLE MATTER!! People count. To just forget and discard a person's suffering as insignificant is to spit in God's face and in the face of Jesus Christ. To have a broken heart healed does not mean that one forgets the atrosities committed. To forget is to simply have them repeated again. When I first began to read GSC posts, I put the odds in Craig's favor and in VPW's favor. It was just so hard to believe. "And WHY are people still talking about it?" I would wonder. They talk so people like me can put some pieces of a puzzle together; they talk so that people's lives are not just swept under a rug like a piece of dirt; they talk for their own healing as well. How much better it would be if TWI simply opened up and admitted their crimes. Maybe then, their might be less talk. Their could maybe be some closure for some of these folks. But TWI JUST PRETENDS THAT NOTHING EVER HAPPENED! I am not defending the RC church but at least they offered counseling to folks from some of the crimes committed in our day and time. If I'm not mistaken aren't some of the priests serving time in prison? Ckm, I don't know you nor your experiences in life. I implore you to not wear blinders. You can still hold fast the good, yet at the same time recognize the devastations that have happened in other's lives. I'm working on forgiveness toward leadership in TWI...for lying to me. I think too I'm working on forgiving myself, for choosing to wear the blinders for so long. You are an authority on your life, but not on the lives of others.