T-Bone

1 hour ago, waysider said:

Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a chocolate chip cookie, will give him an oatmeal instead?

You’re assuming he was a chip off the old choc      ( a little poetic / comedic license)

but 

if he was a ba$tard child, like when a cult-leader fvcks with your belief system - your faith is stuck with a son of a bi+ch jar of rotten pickles labeled chocolate chip cookies…damn I hate when that happens - wasn’t that an episode on South Park? (In the Advanced Class I was taught anytime I wanted revelation I just needed to reach up into deadbeat dad’s rotten pickles jar   )

probably all those budget cuts at the FDA has something to do with the lack of truth in labeling 

normally my posts interpret themselves but - hey - tough times - I’ve had to make a few budget cuts too…so artios idios!

I’m sorry for the poor puns …okay - I’m leaving…I know “don’t let those double-doors hit me in the a$$ on the way out.”

On 3/24/2023 at 7:41 AM, skyrider said:

Wierwille's twi attempts to keep 1) The Illusion of support and 2) The Focus is control in proper balance.  More than his successors, wierwille played "this con" better than them.  Pfal classes, the WOW program and rock of ages provided this support.  With the backdrop of annual Rock of Ages events.... this festival was a big drawing card to keep the masses making the pilgrimage to headquarters each year.  The youth thrived on the experience of camping in "Tent City" and seeing their friends at this annual event.  As long as it was simple, fun and not overly micro-managed..... it was a spot on the calendar year that few wanted to miss.

In the early 70's, the simple nature was unmistakable.  Make-shift family tables were set up for people to step "on stage" and sing their songs, strum their guitars or perform a funky skit.  Bales of straw were used in place of folding chairs.  Food stands served Dannon yogurt, mixed nuts, fruits, trail mix and assorted items that gave the cash-strapped youth a start to their day.  Showers were cold and fellowship with friends was warm.  All of this provided youth with a space to call their own.

The illusion of support extended to materials like the way magazine and sunday teaching tapes.... although many did not partake of these subscriptions.  Yet, year after year, twi "encouraged" their followers to be connected to headquarters.  For many years, the local twigs and branch meetings gave so much support and activity that twi headquarters was a secondary support system.... at least, that's the way I perceived it.  The only exception was, of course, the rock of ages.  You just had to go to know what it was like.

BUT..... all of this changed by 1975, 1976 as corps grads were sent forth into the areas and limbs.  Now, The Illusion of support was shifting into its new primary initiative which was "The Focus is control."  Wierwille was building a hierarchy.  The narcissist had an agenda.  As corps grads were assigned to field positions, the faithful non-corps twig and branch leaders were replaced.  How few of us noticed the seismic shift that wierwille pulled off in plain sight.  All the fundamentals that built twi to this point were removed off the chess board and replaced by rooks, knights and bishops to do the power plays on the field.  Once implemented, this two-tier arrangement on the field never changed.  Corps leadership were the spiritual leaders over non-corps followers without question.  Why?  Because wierwille mandated it.

As long as there were no challenges, wierwille's "system" operated without issue.  Those who did challenge the doctrines and practices of twi were quickly shown the door.  And, for many.... I suspect, that was fine with them.

I often wondered why if wierwille's corps training was raising up "God's crack troops"..... where were the gift ministries of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers?  Specifically, prophets and evangelists.  Where were they?  Why was there such a chasm between wierwille's elite golden pedestal and a corps grads' stump?  If the corps program was NOT spiritually-enriching and engaging the office of these ministries, then what was the corps program doing?  Was it counterfeit? [Yes, I actually had those thoughts during my final year in-residence 1980-81.]

Now, I've come to believe that all of this was controlled-management.... AND..... controlling.

The whole system of twi is an illusion of support.... to help the follower "study the Word" and "grow to maturity."  But it's an illusion, appearing as light.  Remember the scripture verses: 

• 2Co 11:13  For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
• 2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Some of these people have been twi-followers for 50 years.... and still rehashing basic "truths" every week!!  Don't they see the CONTROL twi has over them?  The activity and habits are so ingrained in them that they fail to see how they are institutionalized into a mind frame.  Even those on the field, with "support" (cough) from corps grads have the same grooved mindset.  Thankfully, most of the kids have surpassed their parents in seeing through this false support and recognize it for what it rightfully is.....CONTROL over others.

 

.

On 3/24/2023 at 12:31 PM, waysider said:

For those who have ears to hear.

On 3/24/2023 at 1:31 PM, skyrider said:

Yes, but.... even if someone in the R&R group got to run things at twi, would there have been any real changes?  I doubt it.  Those guys were/are so steeped in the wierwille doctrine that I tend to think they would have only "shuffled a few chairs" in the power structure.  The very fact that they've stayed the course of the pfal-catechism speaks volumes.

Without a complete overhaul in structure and thinking, the "little guy" would still not have a vote.

 

.

On 3/24/2023 at 1:33 PM, skyrider said:

The structure is all about control.

Once you've seen the strings of the marionettes, you can never go back to a time when you did not see them.

 

 

On 3/24/2023 at 5:23 PM, chockfull said:

Well there are a number of splinters all surrounding the doctrine of VPW. Most modified the governance to put themselves in charge but did nothing to correct the doctrine.

I don’t believe I said that accepting those changes would correct everything about TWI.

It would have given the leadership doing the work a vote at least.  Votes for assignments and policies and who filled major assignments.  It would still not give the common believer a vote in any way.  It would demolish the decision making in a vacuum from the directors.

 I’m actually not thinking the people in RnR are a solution at all but the process would indicate a willingness to start somewhere as opposed to where they are at now.

”Come on home”.

That place has never been my home I’m just passing thru.

 

 

My random comments on  posts:

Being in TWI for 12 years, I thought of their ‘support’ as benign and necessary for spiritual growth. And in all that time it never  occurred to me that I was in a harmful and controlling cult being led by a phony masquerading as an apostle of Christ - per the verses you cited in II Corinthians 11

The primary cause of my unawareness was probably the pride I developed from TWI’s  classes and programs ; indoctrination is weird and creepy the way it got me to uncritically accept a set of beliefs. 

wierwille’s egotism fueled teaching had me thinking there was no other group who had ‘the rightly-divided Word’. So I figured I would never fall prey to the deceitful workers and false apostle types of II Corinthians 11.

One of the essentials to the power structure of TWI’s hierarchy is the high regard for the wierwille legacy. After I left and continued analyzing and re-evaluating TWI’s doctrines and practices, the strings of the marionettes became more apparent.

I suppose offshoots could modify some aspects of TWI’s doctrine and governance - I think it may be like sprucing up a vintage car but the engine is still the same. 

3 hours ago, Twinky said:

So now my beautiful girl is in the ground, wrapped in a plain linen or cotton pillowcase.  She's under a mature, beautiful, pink Queen Elizabeth rose, and over the top of her I have put a new hellebore, very pretty, white face with pink spots called "Spring Promise Conny."  Around the hellebore I have put some clumps of snowdrops (now seeding but they were lovely a few weeks ago) that I've uplifted from where they've spread elsewhere in the garden. 

It's not the best place for a hellebore, in full sun all day (they prefer shady/semi-shady places) but it's okay for the time being.  But I fell in love with it because it's so pretty.  Like Tuxy was.  Might have to move it later in the season when I have something else nice to put in its place.

You can see Tuxedo's photo in my ?avatar? is it; she's the front one with white toes, whiskers, ear tufts, bib and little oval splodge on her nose.  Yellow eyes

The other cat is Crypto, all black except for a very few white hairs under her chin.  Green eyes.

 

I'm still bloody miserable, but I feel better for having given her a beautiful resting place.  Which of course I will see every time I go up or down the garden path.

what a beautiful resting place !

btw, you also described Crypto - and that sounds more like our cat - he's 4 years old, all black and has yellow eyes.

they give us so much love...and they draw so much love out of us.

On 3/21/2023 at 5:42 AM, Twinky said:

Well! I go away on holiday for a few weeks, and come back to find this.  Which looked as though it just might have a little substance and seems to have rapidly deteriorated to the same-old same-old.  I started to read it from the beginning and at page 8 realised it's 31 pages long...If there is any new idea or thought, please say so...Otherwise, instead of wasting time dissecting the words, works and life of a nonentity man of low reputation and dishonour, it is of more value to spend that time studying the words, works and life of an outstanding Man of exemplary reputation and honour, whose words, works and life will stand for ever.

On 3/21/2023 at 10:37 AM, Mike said:

In between the same-olds are a few items you might find interesting.  I posted only half of the scriptures (the double doors half), and the other half (budget) is coming soon.

I think we formed some new perspectives on the law of believing, also.

Now consider these lines from Pound’s Canto LXXIV, which the OED cites in its entry on bull$hit as a verb:

Hey Snag wots in the bibl’?

Wot are the books ov the bible?

Name ‘em, don’t bull$hit ME.

This is a call for the facts. The person addressed is evidently regarded as having in some way claimed to know the Bible, or as having claimed to care about it. The speaker suspects that this is just empty talk and demands that the claim be supported with facts.

He will not accept a mere report; he insists upon seeing the thing itself. In other words, he is calling the bluff.

The connection between bull$hit and bluff is affirmed explicitly in the definition with which the lines by Pound are associated:

As v. trans. and intr., to talk nonsense (to);…also, to bluff one’s way through (something) by talking nonsense.

It does seem that bull$hitting involves a kind of a bluff. It is closer to bluffing, surely, than to telling a lie…

…just what is the relevant difference here between a bluff and a lie?

Lying and bluffing are both modes of misrepresentation or deception…

The liar is essentially someone who deliberately promulgates a falsehood.

Bluffing, too, is typically devoted to conveying something false. Unlike plain lying, however, it is more especially a matter not of falsity but of fakery.

This is what accounts for its nearness to bull$hit. For the essence of bull$hit is not that it is false but that it is phony…

…what is wrong with a counterfeit is not what it is like, but how it was made.

From: pages 44 – 47 of  On Bull$hit by  Harry G. Frankfurt

7 hours ago, Mike said:

The epistles give us guidance for how we should pick ministers to do jobs for us like preach and guide a flock. 

The epistles do not tell us how God picks people for super special jobs, like listen to what God said he should trust and not trust in other authors and researchers.  That super special 1942 job also entailed teaching it, distributing it and listening to God’s guidance in that as well.  He got the job done, mostly, by his retirement in 1982. 

God picked VPW for the job and it was done before most of you took the class.

So now it’s make up a top secret mission time?

love is blind. 

you must really really love wierwille.

1 hour ago, Mike said:

I was impressed with how efficiently the film class got so many to genuinely S.I.T. and VPW’s policy of “no one gets missed” almost worked for us who ran the film classes. I can tell that few here ever went into the deeper details of SIT, and that’s why all the doubts over faking it. I went there plenty of times, but I did it in at a time when the local ministry was nurturing, functioning and thriving.  I got my answers to the genuineness of SIT that I see most here completely missed.

And now take 2:

I appreciate the foolishness you add to the fi-err ( forget it error) - it brings to mind more violations of the 10 commandments:

You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name. Exodus 20: 7 …wierwille was a shyster and has been exposed many times over here for misrepresenting God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and the basic tenets of Christianity - he did all that in the name of the Lord!

And if the shoe fits:

2“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

3“You shall have no other gods before a me.

4“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments…Exodus 20: 2 - 6…perhaps wierwille’s narcissism was godlike and competed with Yahweh…and some big wierwille-fans may need to check the ‘shoe-fit’.  

19 minutes ago, Mike said:

I was impressed with how efficiently the film class got so many to genuinely S.I.T. and VPW’s policy of “no one gets missed” almost worked for us who ran the film classes. I can tell that few here ever went into the deeper details of SIT, and that’s why all the doubts over faking it. I went there plenty of times, but I did it in at a time when the local ministry was nurturing, functioning and thriving.  I got my answers to the genuineness of SIT that I see most here completely missed.

You ASSUME all out of proportion swallowed up in your own confirmation bias. You have NO IDEA how much folks here have challenged and exposed what a fraud wierwille was - not only with teaching others how to fake speaking in tongues but in all the other nonsense about manifestations - and i am confident that you Mike have NO IDEA of wierwille’s grand deception because in your wildest dreams you probably can’t imagine questioning or doubting anything your precious little idol said or did…so there’s that.

17 hours ago, Mike said:

Just to be brief, the whole plagiarism perspective here at GSC and the rest of the world is one that embraces both (1) the market for intellectual property like books, and (2) the academic publication system.  This Plagiarism Perspective is centered on the notion of giving credit, money, or glory to individuals who earn it.  This perspective is centered on the notion of man’s ownership of things.

Just to be brief, as far back as when the 10 commandments were given by God   Exodus 20 NIV the notion of ownership, wealth that is earned or acquired honestly, recognizing credit due and things of that nature – it seems to be the divine perspective - - otherwise, why would God set up certain prohibitions like verse 15 “You shall not steal” and verse 17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.” Giving wierwille a free pass on plagiarism is not only turning a blind eye to what is clearly disallowed by the Word of God but to Jesus’ perspective of the law and the prophets summarized in Matthew 22  to love God and neighbor and even particularized actionable detail in  Matthew 7  verse 12   “So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.” ...a funny thing though wierwille had all the stuff he plagiarized copyrighted. 

17 hours ago, Mike said:

The way I look at it is very different.

Yes, you do…makes me think of how scam artists have no qualms stealing from others...ever heard of situational ethics ? maybe you should look that up. 

17 hours ago, Mike said:

I see lots of authors going back a couple hundred years in the Body of Christ have been sharing their work as ministers to God’s people.  God inspires and guides them as they minister to His people.  The notion of ownership in this perspective recognizes God as the owner of the inspiration that is in their work.  Things in this perspective are done not for individual glory, but for the glory of God.

What a bunch of baloney! Even in the Bible proper attribution is given: Scripture referring to Moses and the prophets Luke 24:27 , Jesus made reference to a local proverb Luke 4:23 , Paul quoted secular poets Acts 17:28  and a Cretan prophet Titus 1:12 , Jude 1:14 gives attribution to a nonbiblical book of Enoch, and Peter referred to some of Paul’s writings as hard to understand 2 Peter 3:16 ...the point is that even one of the oldest books in the world showed respect and proper attribution of the work of others. 

17 hours ago, Mike said:

I am so happy God inspired VPW with this model of His ownership.  In the 1970s that resulted in a spectacularly wide distribution of the good material VPW had collected, and I am happy I received the end product. It was to God’s glory in my life, for sure.

Well…you certainly have a different take on 1 Corinthians 13:6  Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth…did you mean to say you’re happy the god of this world inspired wierwille to steal? Now when you say he distributed the plagiarized material – you mean he made a living off of selling stolen goods…I don’t see how breaking any of the commandments brings God glory. 

17 hours ago, Mike said:

None of the authors represented in PFAL could have done the distribution job VPW did.  

You mean none of the authors represented in PFAL were unabashed plagiarists like wierwille. 

17 hours ago, Mike said:

I am glad there are thousands of blessed PFAL grads passing on the videos, and tapes, and books of PFAL to their progeny.  These items will bless a lot of people in the future like they blessed me in the Seventies. 

I think it’s kind of weird and creepy you delight in others passing on wierwille’s evil doctrines makes me think of Romans 1:

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Romans 1 NIV

Well, at least you’re upfront about your bad habits    …now where was I ? oh yeah the Romans 1 spiritual status report is similar to that of Proverbs 2 NIV :

12 Wisdom will save you from the ways of wicked men,

from men whose words are perverse,

13 who have left the straight paths

to walk in dark ways,

14 who delight in doing wrong

and rejoice in the perverseness of evil,

15 whose paths are crooked

and who are devious in their ways.

What makes for a smart cult-survivor is wising up to avoid being in the company of evil people and imitating their practices. As one commentary puts it:

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

2:10-22 If we are truly wise, we shall be careful to avoid all evil company and evil practices. When wisdom has dominion over us, then it not only fills the head, but enters into the heart, and will preserve, both against corruptions within and temptations without. The ways of sin are ways of darkness, uncomfortable and unsafe: what fools are those who leave the plain, pleasant, lightsome paths of uprightness, to walk in such ways! They take pleasure in sin; both in committing it, and in seeing others commit it. Every wise man will shun such company. True wisdom will also preserve from those who lead to fleshly lusts, which defile the body, that living temple, and war against the soul.

From: Proverbs 2 Matthew Henry's Commentary (biblehub.com)

Rest In peace, Tuxedo 

Do you know what’s sad?

It seems the impetus behind discussions with big wierwille-fans is a rabid loyalty to fond memories of a lying thieving plagiarizing unprincipled Drambuie guzzling egotistical abusive malignant narcissist delusional sexual predator like wierwille . It’s so obvious they can’t logically and Scripturally make the case for his twisted doctrine.

For all you big wierwille-fans who drone on about don’t throw the baby out with the bath water - you need to take heed of who your belief system keeps company with: 

Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.” I Corinthians 15:33

It’s just sad someone would waste 20 years defending a lying thieving plagiarizing unprincipled Drambuie guzzling egotistical abusive malignant narcissist delusional sexual predator like wierwille .

24 minutes ago, Mike said:

What could possibly qualify as such a proof?

Really? 

A string of ASCII text?  Could that ever be a proof?

wierwille demanded to be considered a man of God in the unique class of the Apostles- but take note - wierwille had no signs of an apostle!!!!!! Proof is in the authentication by God. wierwille didn’t have $hit!

56 minutes ago, Mike said:

It is sad that this did happen, and a lot.
This is one of reasons I started this thread.

We were severely hampered in our growth in this area by several factors.

I continue to push myself to understand this better.

 

What’s there to understand better? wierwille usually blamed the victim’s lack of believing. 

13 minutes ago, Mike said:

The bigger time soaker is reading through all the stuff that was NOT worth passing on to us. 

I completely reject your whole assessment of the work he did or did not do.  It is pure speculation, and wrong speculation.

Okay - what’s to speculate on how much time wierwille wasted plagiarizing the work of others? It doesn’t matter if he took 18 minutes or 18 hours a day in between his steady diet of porn Drambuie and sexually molesting women. He still managed to plagiarize big time!

51 minutes ago, Mike said:

Please excuse this interruption of the derailment in progress, but on another thread I noticed something. The thread is

 

https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/25490-the-integrity-of-your-word/

 

 

I skim read the post and the responses is but I didn’t see explanation that I have offered a few times here. I could scour the archives and find large texts I’ve written on this, but I won’t.

 

 

Just to be brief, the whole plagiarism perspective here at GSC and the rest of the world is one that embraces both (1) the market for intellectual property like books, and (2) the academic publication system.  This Plagiarism Perspective is centered on the notion of giving credit, money, or glory to individuals who earn it.  This perspective is centered on the notion of man’s ownership of things.

 

 

The way I look at it is very different.

 

 

I see lots of authors going back a couple hundred years in the Body of Christ have been sharing their work as ministers to God’s people.  God inspires and guides them as they minister to His people.  The notion of ownership in this perspective recognizes God as the owner of the inspiration that is in their work.  Things in this perspective are done not for individual glory, but for the glory of God.

 

 

I am so happy God inspired VPW with this model of His ownership.  In the 1970s that resulted in a spectacularly wide distribution of the good material VPW had collected, and I am happy I received the end product. It was to God’s glory in my life, for sure.

 

 

None of the authors represented in PFAL could have done the distribution job VPW did.  

 

 

I am glad the collaterals were not cluttered with lots of footnotes.  I was a seeker of God in PFAL, not a University student seeking matriculation.  I am glad there were no distractions in the collaterals of lots of names of other authors.  For me to chase down such authors early in my development would have been a harmful distraction. I am glad VPW sheltered me from their errors. 

 

 

I remember distinctly being told, before I took the class, that I had to “be careful of Bullinger” because of how he handled the administrations at the end of Acts. Bullinger’s “How to Enjoy the Bible” was being sold in the bookstore.  I am so glad he was the only other author I had to “be careful” of for a few years.  Later on I was able to handle them.

 

 

Those early years were precious to me in their simplicity… no Corps…  just me and my collaterals and my Cambridge Wide Margin absorbing the collaterals’ contents with my Bic fine point 4 color pen.

 

 

I am glad there are thousands of blessed PFAL grads passing on the videos, and tapes, and books of PFAL to their progeny.  These items will bless a lot of people in the future like they blessed me in the Seventies. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How silly - denying plagiarism on another thread…typical…since when is mass-marketing mishmashes of plagiarized material and Scripture twisting innocently labeled a distribution job? Geesh - give me a break!

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Now there’s Pay-as-you-go cell phone!

It’s as convenient to use as carrying pocket change.

In what famous “Gone with the Wind” movie did Vivian Leigh win an Academy Award?

Excellent article, Raf!

WordWolf, thanks for posting the link / article.

Would wierwille have had such a big cult following if he would have given the proper attribution? I don’t think so. So, it gets me wondering why he did not – all I can think of is that it was intentional – to set himself up as some great man of god.

It’s remarkable how easily I fell for wierwille’s con. Reading Nathan’s account of the 2 corps is just another rendition of how to perpetuate a cult-leader. wierwille demanded admiration – but it was incognito -I thought it was in deference to the Word of God and the office of a prophet, teacher, pastor, etc.

5 hours ago, Charity said:

Because of my grandson's non-verbal autism, I want to understand healing more than what I presently do.  So I've been looking into prayer, trust, healing, etc. and in the meantime, I know both God and Christ Jesus are watching over him as he continues to grow and learn.

Charity, don’t shortchange yourself on the enormous emotional support that I know you must give your grandson and his parents! My wife’s niece has 2 sons with autism and throughout the week, wife and niece are texting/phone calling each other. This makes me think of Galatians 6:2 NLT , Share each other’s burdens, and in this way obey the law of Christ. Thank God we are not alone during this earthly journey:

Benson Commentary

Galatians 6:2-5. Bear ye one another’s burdens — Sympathize with and assist each other, in all your weaknesses, grievances, trials. The apostle alludes to the custom of travelers, who, when too heavily laden with their baggage, relieve one another by bearing the burdens of the weak or fatigued, and in that manner show their good disposition toward each other; and so fulfil the law of Christ — Even that law of love, which he particularly and especially enjoins, terming it his new commandment, and making it the distinguishing mark of his disciples; and surely we may willingly receive that law from one who was himself such an unequalled example of love, and who with so gracious a sympathy bore our burdens of sorrow, and carried away the load of our guilt. 

End of commentary excerpts from Galatians 6:2 Commentaries

~ ~ ~ ~

Intangibles like love…compassion…empathy…lending an ear do a lot of the heavy lifting even when we don’t know what specifically to do or say to help lighten someone’s load.

1 hour ago, Charity said:

Because of vp's pride and greed, I don't want to scavenge through his writings searching for bits of "truth" here and there.  When presented with a twi article, I will do my best to point out destructive heresies but I'm not saying my conclusions are the end all and be all.  So everyone is free to question anything I post or take it all with a grain of salt.

In my earlier post, I wrote, "I'm not saying it's wrong to have a desire to study scripture.  I'm saying that I needed to balance this with simply reading the scriptures for the joy of it and for what God wants me to see and learn from them."  Adding to this, I'm also wanting to first read what is written a couple of times before using Bible Hub, interlinears, commentaries, etc. to help with my understanding as you pointed out and to see "what other inspired Christians in the body of Christ think" as Chockfull said.

So in this context, I do plan on keeping both the baby (the great truths of the Bible) and the bath water (hermeneutical tools) with the hope of keeping everything clean (2 Timothy 2:15).

Hi Charity,

That’s a great way to put it – and I think most folks on Grease Spot feel the same way – that’s what the Socratic method is all about – as a form of cooperative argumentative dialogue asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to draw out ideas and underlying presuppositions.

When I first left TWI, it was like getting out from under overbearing parents – it began as a “I’d like to try exploring the Bible myself” attitude. I realized there was a lot I didn’t know or how to go about finding out – so that was also a major ‘retooling’ time – reevaluating my study methods and go-to resources. To this day I believe I’m still openminded and on many theological topics I hope Grease Spotters can see the tentativeness in my posts. Matter of fact, about the only time I may come across as “Oh, I think I can do a better job of honestly and clearly explaining Scripture” is when certain folks try to insinuate goofy ideas into Scripture, like the law of believing and God’s budgetary constraints. And it’s not that I think I’m the only one here who tries to be honest and clear – I’m not into  absolute thinking  or that it’s my way or the highway like our TWI-overbearing-parents would have us believe.

There’s a lot of stuff in the Bible that’s hard to understand – and we’re never going to figure it all out anyway…and I believe Scripture can be enjoyed and understood at many different levels and from different viewpoints. There’s lots of options available.

On another thread I got into the changes to my position on various TWI doctrines  and what’s significant in my post is that after 37 years of being free from TWI’s powerful influence – through my own study, checking out legitimate resources and dialoging with Grease Spotters, what is noteworthy is that I have found options – other ways of exploring my belief system – one I’m particularly proud of is point 10 – unraveling a big bugaboo - commonplace believing and religious faith.

On 3/21/2023 at 1:35 PM, waysider said:

I don't know about you guys, but I have definitely formed some new perspectives on the law of believing.

Cult-leader forming a new perspective of himself.

1 hour ago, So_crates said:

How do we know Saint Vic was a MOG?

55 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

A music coordinator said he was the seventh THE man of god.

and he 'manifested' the lucky 7 rewards

also known as the 7 deadly prizes

22 hours ago, Nathan_Jr said:

It is written in an undiscovered manuscript. I beleeve one day that manuscript will be found, but not in my lifetime.

 

In other screwball news,

someone brought their PFAL syllabus made from golden plates,

to the Antiques Roadshow for appraisal.

Before the VW Beetle there was the VW Quaint.

Aerodynamically friendly.

Enjoy the open road in an open car.

Kids watching primordial Where’s Waldo

The  other   Swing Out Sister