GrouchoMarxJr

It's one thing to "know" somebody just from seeing them so often on stage, teaching. That's how most wayfers knew Martindale. It's like "knowing" a movie star or famous athlete...in other words, you don't REALLY know them. You only see their public image and persona.

It's quite another thing to "know" somebody on a personal basis, one on one. To spend some time with them and see how they are when they are away from the crowds.

I had the opprotunity to get to know Martindale, one on one. It was at that time that I decided, immediately, that I did not like the man and did not trust him. The main feeling that I got from Martindale was that he didn't really give a rat's a$$ about anybody but himself. He was condescending, patronizing, and insincere. He also knew how to kiss Wierwille's a$$ better than anybody else and that was instrumental in his becoming prez...and one thing I've learned about a$$kissers...Anybody who kissed a$$ to get to the top, always surrounds himself with other a$$kissers...I think that about sums up Martindale's leadership.

No doubt Wierwille believed in his "law of believing"...He took it to the point where he actually lost his mind...He figured if he could simply believe that he was the great apostle, he would be! Wierwille annointed himself as an apostle (without any help from the good Lord)...simply because he decided to believe such a thing...and as we all know, believing equals receiving...viola! A self made apostle! I think Wierwille got to the point in his own head, that if he thought something...it was revelation! He convinced himself that if HE thought of it...it was God speaking to the world!...A decent psychologist would have a field day with old Veepee on the couch...

Actually, if you take the numerical value of "LoyCraigMartindale" and determine the alignment of the stars at the time of his birth, and then reduce the variable of "X" into the time frame of his presidency at twi...add all these factors together, total out the equation, and his name clearly is deciphored as........Moe Howard.

I agree with what you guys are all saying but here's what I don't get...Martindale was totally full of himself...He took the criticism of all the top guys there and shook it off...he ran off the likes of JAL and RD and VF and BR and all the other "heavies". He wouldn't listen to anybody...afterall, he was the annointed one, the new mog! All of a sudden Geer shows up in town and Martindale wilts like a 90 pound weakling on the beach. It seems to me that Geer pulled off what nobody else could and IMHO, Geer was nobody special. How is it that LCM cowtowed to Geer in the first place?

Strange times, they were...I joined twi in 1975 and left in 1987. I left at the same time as JAL, Dubofsky, and others. After Veepee died in 1985, it was almost as if some kind of hypnotic spell was broken. I started to think for myself again. I didn't like Martindale and I didn't trust him. I kept a critical eye on him and expressed my reservations about him to others. Of course I was branded as a troublemaker. When Martindale demanded that every twig coordinator report weekly as to who was faithful and who wasn't...that was the final straw for me. He was dead wrong and it was easy to show it in the bible...The only problem was that all the clergy and corps around me didn't seem to care that Martindale was "off the word"...I'll never forget the looks on their faces when I stood up at a leaders meeting and told them all what I thought...and then walked out...never looked back...never felt bad about it...a very short time after my departure, it fell apart at the seams.

You know it Oakster...Martindale really screwed up a good thing for himself...all he had to do to be successful was to maintain what Wierwille built...keep the trains running on time and be a gracious mog...nope, he couldn't do it. He decided to go looneytunes instead...by dismantling virtually every successful program that twi had built upon (wow, roa, pfal), Martindale proved beyond a shadow of a doubt, that no matter how stupid of a thing you may have done in your life...he was able to top it. Martindale not only trashed the "infallibility" of the mog...but he also demonstrated that the man that Wierwille had so carefully selected to replace him...the man in whom he placed the mantle around his neck and ordained as our next mog...also had .... for brains.

Considering Martindale's background in wayworld, which includes an extremely patriarchal hierarchy and disparaging views of the role of women as subserviant...and when you consider his very passionate views against homosexuality...how in the world did he ever, ever, ever, ever, ever...pick Rosie???

I mean, seriously...this choice flies in the face of everything I ever knew about the guy...Wierwille never would have selected a woman as president of twi. The only explanation I can come up with is that it was kind of a "Gerald Ford" selection...by that I mean, if you pick somebody who is incompetant to replace you, then the chances of you being replaced lessens...of course it didn't work for Nixon either. What are your thoughts?

I think that JustThinking hit the nail on the head concerning the "cult of personality".

By definition, every cult has a cult leader...the cult is usually built on the charisma and personality of the cult leader...this was certainly true with twi. They can juggle the material around and present it anyway they like, but without a charismatic leader, they ain't going nowhere. Every town in America has plenty of churches and Christian organizations...twi has NOTHING to offer. Their doctrines can be found elsewhere and without the charismatic front man, they are just another local church at best...and at worst, they are a cult without a cult leader, trying to live down a bad reputation.

I remember the first time I saw old Veepee teach live...say what you will about the old bastard, he really knew how to put on a dog and pony show. Never saw a preacher anywhere who taught the way he did...the fire...he could hold a crowd...Now Rosie is a different story entirely. I think listening to Martha Stewart talk about flower arrangements is more inspiring and exciting than listening to Rosie Riverrat spew bland platitudes from her lesbian piehole. I mean, the only reason a lot of us stuck it out with twi was because Veepee could really lather ya up and sell the snakeoil...what I don't understand is how ANYBODY could POSSIBLY follow this woman's "leadership". I mean, Rosie? Gimmee a break! The least they coulda done was got somebody with a little pizzazz.

...As far as I understand, they had to wait for the "official count" to be completed before they can begin the process of having a recount. Seems the Jesse is more concerned over the vote count than Kerry is...curious.

Sure why not...Get the top leaders from all the splinter groups together with the leaders of twi...put them all in the same room together and then....lock the doors and make em all take "Momentus" together... :D-->

I agree with ex10...Vic was a letch who surrounded himself with a$$kissers.

Shellon...that's the best suggestion yet!

Here's one of my memories of Chris Geer...

I was in residence at Emporia and Geer and his wife were "assigned" there for one reason or another...anyway...I was told to go room to room and tell everybody that a meeting had just been called and everybody was supposed to get there pronto. When I knocked on Geer's door, it was already ajar and I could see inside...as I knocked, Geer, who had his back to me, swung around fast and was holding a hand gun! He had a look on his face as if he was ready to shoot the first thing in sight...he said to me harshly.."What do want?" I told him of the meeting and he just stared at me...no response. His eyes looked as if they were filled with hate and quite frankly, the guy was scary. I turned and walked away as fast as I could...

Sounds like a plan...me and Mr Hammeroni are gonna be having our own HoHo this year. ;)-->

Can you imagine the arrogance of a man to change the name of Christmas? I think he did it just to test us...to see how far he could define reality for us and control us.

Wierwille always pretended to be in total control. I think things may have got away from him a little bit though. How can one guy control all the variations and examples that might be used to illistrate twi doctrine? It's like when you whisper in one persons ear and it travels around the circle until it ends up being totally different. There's no doubt that there were variations and versions of different aspects of twi doctrine...but the bottom line was that Wierwille kept people on a short leash and twi teachings for the most part, stayed within the boundries that he set. He closely guarded those doctrines which brought in the money and gave him control over people.

I grew up watching Mickey Mantle, Roger Maris, Willie Mays and Hammerin' Hank Aaron. I remember when Maris broke Ruth's single season homerun mark with 61...they put an asterisk next to his name in the record book, because Ruth hit 60 in 154 games, while Maris hit 61 in 162 games...

What about Barry Bonds? When he finally retires, should there be an asterisk next to his records? At the bottom of the page, next to the asterisk, it could say something like..."Steroid induced performance". I got the feeling that if Babe Ruth would have had steroids, he would have hit 100 home runs every season...and Hank Aaron would have ended up with 1000 home runs for his career, had he been doing steroids...

OK, OK, OK...I just saw the thread that Song started...my question was answered.

...But, we can still talk about the bus driver with a bad attitude...

It seems that Martindale set the precedent for deviating from the "Teacher's doctrine"...I would think that they will put together some kind of hybrid...I predict that they will revise their "believing equals receiving" doctrine to look a little more like Lynn and Shoenheit's doctrine on "faith". Of course they leave in all the "important" stuff that brings in the money...abundant sharing, recruitment programs, along with their new classes. They will probably come up with a new way to make money on the internet...download classes with your Mastercard (they'll have to revise their doctrine on debt)... ;)-->

What happened to that massive Scottish castle that twi bought? Did Geer end up with it? Who paid for it?

Speaking of Geer, with all the posts about Veepee and LCM, isn't it about time that we paid a little "tribute" to this bus driving, pistol toting, delusional, madman? Afterall, this is the guy who "talked down" LCM and set off the ....bomb that splattered on everybody.

Little Johnny Townsend...he DID try to mimic Veepee...right down to the adultery.

Song...That's a good point. I don't know why we don't pile on Geer more. He was a bus driving, Hitler. A really nasty person. Maybe I'll start a new thread about him...

Maybe it would make things more interesting if they called Chris Geer back and put him in charge...we would have PLENTY to post about then. ;)-->

It was a foolproof plan...if something good happened to you, then you could thank Veepee for teaching you "the law of believing"...but if something bad happened, then I guess you weren't believeing right. They couldn't lose!

Raf is right...believing is not a law. That's insane. A word to the wise...if you still think that believing equals receiving, you are still engulfed with waybrain and need some counciling.

My nomination for the next president of twi is......drum roll please.....

...Mike.

I don't know why, but I always get a kick out of reading Mike's posts. Just when you thought it was safe to come into a thread, Mike, aka Dr. Wienerwille jr., comes soaring in, like a hawk decending on a small bunny. Extending his talons of "reason", trying to save us all from ourselves...quoting the "great one", he calls upon us all to blow the dust off the "shoulda been burned a long time ago" blue book and tap into the glory! I don't know why...but I gotta laugh.

So sorry bro...so very sorry. :(-->