YIdon'tgotochurch

In the latter years of LCM's reign, he softened on this subject. Instead of yelling 'it's not murder' he would say it in a slightly 'fatherly' fashion (as if) and add, " It's not always right! ! ! ! But, it's not murder". God is smarter than all of us. He manages to have all the bases covered. I also remember VPW saying, "The things people call a great sin are never mentioned in the Bible. While the things that are mentioned in the Bible are never considered sin'. Or something like that. I think his point was this; people blow things up to be sin when they aren't and ignore the priorities of God's Word and never consider that to be sin. Be nice to me; I'm in a perpectual state of dormant mental awareness.

I also remember the 10th Corps nites when Craig, David and Pat gave us grief for missing a tense on word in a verse. I do believe it is recorded a few times when Jesus Christ quoted scripture. I always considered that an example better than TWI. I don't believe it was insignificant to memorize the verses. But that's mho. As for the heart of the verses memorized, I believe I developed a lot of heart for scripture by memorizing it in my language....English. A few of us in our fellowships would play a kind of game. When someone said, "VERSE! ! !", the other person would have to quote a reference and verse and could never use the samve verse twice in a day or week. That game became a funny thing after a while if you ran out of verses. Doglover... Thanks, now that I have 1-1, Isaiah 26:3, I can probably get the rest of the 25 or most of them anyway. I used verses to get me through LEAD and a number of other events. I'm thankful they pushed me (us) to do it. I grew to actually believe most of those verses deeply. More than the bs of the practical operations of TWI.

Recently, I was talking with my business parnter about getting funding. In the process of setting up the business there are licenses to get and legal fees for contracts. If we stumbled on to a national company, our business would fail if we got a contract bigger than we were able to handle. We have friends interested in investing. However one particular friend is dragging his feet. My partner suggested we leave him alone. Putting pressure on this friend to invest would ultimately destroy our friendship. I agreed and quoted Psalms 37:25. This had a particularly big impression on my partner that I was able to rattle off a verse by memory. He expressed relief that I had that ability to keep him on the right track. (however, that is not in my job description). Later, I was thinking of the hundreds of verses I once could quote on demand. Suddenly, I realized, I could not remember the Corps retemory references. i.e. 1-1, through 1-5. I have no doubt that I actually know all 25 verses. I don't remember the reference numbers and its alarming to me. It's bad enough that after surgeries, I can't remember events the way my wife remembers them. There are numbers and names I may never remember again. I'm not so concerned with being in compliance with TWI's references as much as being able to remember them. Do any of you remember the reference numbers? I can get the 1st 10 of the white retemories. But not the last 15. None of the Corps retemories. Age and surgery sure is insane. I guess I should be thankful to wake up in a new world every day. But some things are reference points. I think I miss them.

miss bliss I acknowledge your admonition though I don't agree with it. Going to an offshoot would be difficult. Some with a knowledge of my particular flaws would most likely agree with that. As for the "progressive or liberal" churches, I consider them worse than TWI by virtue that they water down so much by using versions of the KJV and consider them truth. Other versions are great for reference....but su** at reliance. If these guys would ever do a proper study, they would never use these books to teach from. As for sin conscienceness and needing Jesus Christ. Sin conscienceness only keeps people in captivity. Jesus Christ set us free and by so doing, enabled us to become sogwop(s). Jesus Christ is our advocate and we need his example of walking the truth in order to maintain some type of fellowship with God

HOPE, YOU SAID, Sounds like "church" to me That is a strong enough reason for why I don't go to splinter groups. IMHO, many wouldn't witness in TWI and most won't witness now.

Seems appropriate for me to add my 2 cents. I have maintained my renewed mind by allowing the radio preachers to challenge me. In other words, I listen to this station claiming to be a "Christian" station with 24 hour preachers ( a different one every half hour). Every one from Hagee to Swindall. As they teach subjects based on "stories" and psychological self-help stuff, I grab my Bullinger and/or my 'renewed mind' and start working on their so-called logic. As I listen, I compare what I know the verses say compared to what they think they say. I listen in my office at home from time to time and in my truck. When I'm in my truck, it has become normal to start yelling at the dashboard. When I was in TWI, I would sing to my steering wheel. I listened to one of these birds the other night and observed his "teaching" for 30 minutes without going to the Bible once! ! ! ! Every once in a while, I hear them stumble on something that shows scriptural insight. But it is rare. If this is anything like churchianity, ... no thanks. I'm still a firm believer that JCING, TDANAN, and most of the other collaterals. With that strong of a belief in those subjects, I'd feel like a priest at Hooters. I never liked how LCM use to rant and rave about these guys on the radio.... but now, I fully understand why he did it. And I know very few will believe this.....but I think he was right......they couldn't find the bxtts in the dark with a roadmap and a flashlight. These guys will never actually try to do a word study on some of the basic stuff. They will always teach that God controls people and sin conscienceness. Idolatry runs rampant. Christmas and Easter are the worse... mainly because they still teach the fairy tales of Christmas and the 'Charleston Heston' version of the Passover. Why put up with that in a church? I think if I went to church, I'd end up saying something under my breath that would get me kicked out anyway. One more thing. I don't go to a splinter group either.

I'd like to find out where Martha Tracy is now days. If you know, please have her email me. rxb78250@yahoo

There was a former minister who came from another denomination....I don't remember which one. His name was Ross Tracy. He was a very tender-hearted man. I remember, he was a bit quieter than the rest of leadership. During the first year of the 10th Corps, he was at Emporia. I think he was run off a few years later. His daughter Martha was in the 14th Corps and married another Corps guy from the 14th. As I also recall, he had taken PFAL during the Carolina's massive growth spurt. He had gotten tired of the contradictions in the denomination. He took the class and went full speed into TWI. He may have been in the 1st Family Corps. I don't remember for sure.

If anyone is looking for me, I'll be back later. I'm down at Dr. Becker's getting my foot removed from my mouth. When I get back, WordWolf and Belle are going to watch me eat my humble pie. Ok. You are all correct, I'm wrong, I'm sorry. Now you know why I don't go to church.

I'd like to give my personal "attaboys" to the ones who responded to "Noni1974" (heretofore refered to as "Noni"). Noni posed the question in the topic about "Born Again" and it appeared to be an honest question. What I read on that thread was spectacularly out there. If the intent was to get someone confused and frustrated, it probably worked. As I recall, only one person referred to Romans 10:9. Another provided synonyms and another definitions. But no one gave Noni the instruction on "how" to get born again Sidestepping the answer with symantics (is it really born again? or born from above? or....) is far from an earnest desire to help someone. I chose not to participate in the discussion because there was just to much to address. I decided to do it on another thread. Cynic: I expect you have the honor of having the longest thread in the cafe. After reading the post, that's probably the worse answer to the question I've ever heard or read. Good Gravy! ! ! You finally gave her the verse while responding to a few that had poked fun at you. Even that was a casual reference to Romans 10:9. Belle: I've always enjoyed your post. I was surprised with your questions about speaking in tongues. In the 25 years I was in, I never heard a teaching that it was required to SIT in oder to be born again. Rather, the opposite. It's impossible to speak in tongues if you aren't born again. Later even that changed. At the point that you wrote that, Noni still had no answer. johniamthat was agreeing with what VPW had said about being "saved = born again = received holy spirit as evidenced by speaking in tongues". SIT was the "evidence"...not the requirement. I'll probably get a load of emails with daggers attached to the files. But, I figured I've been wounded in here before. My observations are just as valueless or valuable as anyone elses. When I surf through radio stations and pick up a guy claiming to teach the Bible, I listen for about 2 or 3 minutes before I start screaming at the dashboard. These guys are so lost and out of touch with what the Bible says....it boggles the imagination. Muchless use the Bible to teach anyone how to get born again. They're stuck in the Gospels as doctrine and as a result mishandle the rest of the Bible. John 3:ff is not instruction on how to get born again....it's an invitation! ! ! !! ! ! ! Gee. I hope I didn't just sound like a Wayfer. :unsure: For those of you who want to get into an shouting match by way of email... I'll apologize later if I offended you. :unsure:

Just think of the opportunity to witness at Sturgis. Or sell WOW Burgers. Can you imagine the national athem at 7am? Is there a state song? Maybe all my ex's? The neat thing is that you'd probably never have to hitchhike home if your of the female persuassion. I told you I was in a perpectual state of dormant mental awareness! ! ! !

My wife has offered to keep an eye on a neighbor's home while they go to Sturgis. Several weeks ago, some cable channel had an hour long review of the event. Seems to me, that is where we should go to meet up some year. A ROA reunion for lack of a better term. Think about it! (Then scream! ! ! ) They have camping, rv hookups, live music and funny people exposing themselves for cheering patrons. And it's more centrally located for those of you in Montana and Tennessee. Then we could start a Harley Davidson training program. A 4 year training program with apprentice and interim years. We could graduate and go forth into areas of concern, interest, and greed and move the Harley logo over the world. BOOM! ! ! ! ! Oh man! ! ! I just fell asleep at my computer and had the weirdest dream. I told you I was ina perpectual state of dormant mental awareness! ! ! !

I've got just 3 words to add to this post that I think will concur with all that's been said already. HITCHIKING TO LEAD !! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

The people we knew. One ROA, I think it was 87, I figured out how many people I had crossed paths with over the years. The numbers were staggering for an old country boy like me from a town in South Texas. Most people in the school I grew up in never left. The ones that did were never heard from again. As I calculated and took into consideration that I had worked Bless Patrol most of the years, attended the Advanced Class in '78, 10th Corps started off with almost 600 people on Emporia's campus (maybe more including 8th Corps), and the 14th, 12th, and 16th Corps I arrived at a number of about 10,000 people that I knew by name or face. I loved working BP because of the people that would pass by. I'd make conversation with everyone, or at least try. Usually, they just kept on going. (Gee, the story of my life). But I almost always saw a smile as they left. The final ROA was the worse. I worked Pizza and hated it. I felt smothered by the constraints of the walls, there was no time to really say anything to the customers. It was like delivering bails of hay to cattle on the range. (no offense to any of us who may look like a cow today). On post #20, Georgio Jessio mentioned that orgies was a bit strong in describing our activities. I fully agree. I never heard of orgies untill I heard it from people who left while I was still in. But I will admit, there was more fun than God probably appreciated. I remember the 2nd ROA at HQ. The teaching was over one night and I was walking back to my tent. I heard 2 or 3 guys laughing up a storm walking in front of me. One was particularly excited and was saying, "All I saw were arms and legs and an Axx." I rolled my eyes and felt like Father McCahey on Mash. I wasn't supose to hear that. It was the first indication I had that this went on there. Talk about naive and pure hearted. I was 19 years old at my first ROA. I got so turned on for God, that I had stopped thinking about girls for months. And yet, it was pretty difficult to stay focused at the ROA the way most of you ladies were dressed... Good grief, some of the best looking, sexiest women in shorts and halter tops I ever saw. Gee, those dreams are coming back. Despite the error of their ways, please splain to me one more time:..... why couldn't leadership keep their pants on.

Man, I quit venting a long time ago. I was able to get on disability and survive long enough to decide what to do that would give me an income and the free time I wanted. I have found it. Launched July 19, 2006. OnWatch Technologies. If worked properly, we will make 100k by September. No employees. Sub contracting some of the work. We (my partner and I) just make presentations and oversee the work. Pretty cool. We hope to be nationwide next year. If we aren't, I'll vent then.

Now, Honestly, Templelady! ! ! ! If a former class mate called you up and asked for a place to stay during a reunion, would you really want to open your home up to them? I wouldn't and I know that even if I did want to, my wife would have me and them sleeping in the garage. If it's a summer reunion, take a tent.

I was married in the 10th Corps. Got divorced during the interim year after about 4 years of marriage. Stayed single through the 14th Corps, married about 3 months after graduation. Now, been married 20 years. Go figure, she hasn't run me off yet. Lord knows there's times I wish she would. And of course, days I'm glad she hasn't and days I hope she won't. Either way, I don't think I'd ever marry again if this one didn't work. I might live with a girl, but I wouldn't marry her. If I become available, I'll let everyone know. Trust this, if I become available, odds will favor it being my fault.

Great thread! ! ! ! I have thought of a few over the 20 years of marriage. I did contact my high school girlfriend about 10 years ago. We had lunch and she filled me in on her divorce from the guy she dropped me for. She soon had a boyfriend and she would call and ask me about the things he did (like going out with his friends drinking on the weekends). She considers me an old friend. She lives 150 miles away in my home town. About a year and a half ago, I was at a dance hall and some visitors from my hometown were there. I overheard them talking about someone I knew and introduced myself. I started asking them about the people I knew. I asked about "her" and one of the ladies said, "Man, she's a golddigger." She'll strip the meat right off the bones of a man and leave him so wounded, he'll never recover." I was disappointed to hear she had turned out to have this reputation, especially if it were true. But I was thankful that I didn't have to deal with her.

Belle replied, I'm with you, Belle, Gore has the personality of a fence post and might be smarter than the average high school graduate, but imho, if it was 3pm and he said it was 3 o'clock, I'd still call time service. I think of him and a lot of people like him as though they were "town cryers". Shouting at the rain because they think it will get them all wet. (It won't if they get out of it).

Ah tuke the TWI speellin kalass. It wer graet! Now, I cun rite ma und Pa und theys reeden my mell to the hole fammly. Theys been theenkin bout teken the Bieble kalass to anderstann the Bieble and mite go Korr next yeer.

I just hope they packed the GORP! ! ! ! If not, that was a major oversight and the culprit should be marked and avoided.

By now, the wood at the chalet must be entirely dried out. It is difficult to maintain because the logs tend to split in dry extremes. Ohio can be very humid for days and then get as dry as Kansas. The logs must be very ripe. It's a good thing they don't allow smoking any more. It would turn to ashes in minutes. The Way GB Firemen wouldn't have time to get their boots and coats on.

I never considered myself as scum....but there were times I was an axxhole. I was usually so busy making fun of stupid things and side stepping the rules that I had little time to consider myself an axxhole. But, I think in looking back, I think I was an axxhole because I always had an agenda. In fact, I am now at a place for the first time in my life (50 yrs old) where I don't have an agenda. I have started a partnership with a security venture that is not targeted to individuals, but companies. For the first time in my life, I can go to a Wal Mart or mall without looking for someone to join my team. It feels odd.

I turned 50 in March. My best friend turned 50 in January. We grew up together and were introduced to each other while in diapers. Several years ago, when I turned 45....gee that would be 5 years ago, he gift wrapped a magnifying glass ( 3 inches in diameter). So, this year I got him a collapsable cane. Mailed it to him. He and his wife laughed for hours at the gesture. So, then, he forgot my birthday. (go figure) We refuse to go through mid-life crisis.... still mentally, 17 yrs old. I told him even after 3 brain surgeries, I'll probably out-live everyone I know. And if I don't, I've had more fun than everyone else I've known. I wake up in a new world every day. And I still recite the prayer I use to say in high school: Now I lay me down to rest I pray, the Lord, I pass this test. If I should die before I wake That's one last test I'll have to take I told you I was in a perpectual state of dormant mental awareness.

So, WE (Watersedge) are you still in? ? ? ? You guys can have the coffee.. I'm going for the Budwieser. I think I'm in a perpectul state of dormant mental awareness.