Twinky

10 minutes ago, chockfull said:

Sorry that happened to you Twinky.  It was truly his loss, and Christs gain.  You are a fantastic person and deserve the absolute best in life from God.

Thank you, Chocky.

4 hours ago, T-Bone said:

Every time this stuff comes up I cringe and  shudder to think what a dumb-a$$ I was thinking I’m in a very spiritual place …meanwhile the X-rated soap opera played out behind the scenes…I guess there’s a whole other type of awareness if one is into that stuff…the secret life of adultery.

I never knew any of it either.  Don't look for it, couldn't possibly expect it in a Christian place of work and study, just - naive and innocent.  Thank God for his protection over me at that time.

It makes me feel ill to think of it now.  Jacque... my corps coordinator.  A groomer.  Ugh.

2 hours ago, Mike said:

I saw the Wrangler tactic used on me in recent weeks by Nathan_JR, then by you, Twinkie, and then by Charity.  Three in a row.

1.  I am not using "tactics."  I merely say what I think.  I speak plainly, not in riddles or with hidden or special meanings - unlike you, Mike.

2.  You could try paying attention.  My handle is TWINKY with a Y.  How many times have you seen the name?  You managed to spell it correctly the second time.  Attention to detail is something TWI drums into its followers.  How could you miss that?

3.  When the blindly obvious is ignored or overlooked, it makes one wonder what other less obvious things are overlooked or ignored.  Wonder how trustworthy the person overlooking things really is.

4 hours ago, Bolshevik said:

Quickly looking at theway.org site, it's a Biblical ministry.  Christian isn't mentioned.  Maybe I missed it.

Absolutely right, and it had never occurred to me until now.  It's always described itself as a "Biblical research, teaching and fellowship ministry."  Never a "Christian research, teaching and fellowship ministry."

Mind you: it's no good at research, Biblical, Christian, or otherwise; no good at teaching, though it is good at indoctrination and bullying; not good at fellowship, being so exclusive and manipulative.

On 12/31/2022 at 7:41 AM, Rocky said:

Grounded in meticulous historical research and written with a reverential approach to Jesus’s life that focuses on his humanity, The Book of Longings is an inspiring account of one woman’s bold struggle to realize the passion and potential inside her, while living in a time, place, and culture devised to silence her.

The Book of Longings is a very readable, very intriguing book.  Time I had a re-read.

Interesting little video, Rocky.

We have an architect in our congregation.  I don't know if he will be doing the design (quite likely) but he will be overseeing and helping smooth out any planning objections when planning permission is applied for.  I have seen some draft sketches, but they're only sketches at this stage.

I'm guessing it'll be next year at least before we're breaking ground on this new venture.  We'll have to raise the money (or most of it) for the building works first.  But the ££ will be there when it's needed.

Meantime, the Youth minister is already hatching plans and can't wait to get in there.

We will also be housing a Foodbank, much needed in this area.  It would be good if we can re-start Homework Club, much better for kids than trying to do homework on the end of the ironing board or in the room they share with two noisy siblings.  The Debt Advice centre [Christians Against Poverty - CAP] or the Credit Union might come back.  I am going to suggest Repair Cafe does a session once a month, too (that'd be new).

We have big plans :)  !!!!!!!!!

Gross, OS.
Guess that's why she was happy to be at Emporia, away from his sweaty clutches.

3 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

I'm sorry Twinky.

Thanks, Bolshevik.

1 hour ago, Bolshevik said:

I had a wife in housekeeping.

Our first year of marriage was marred with arguments about who her "head" was.  

I eventually said it was me . . .  Intending to removed those other corps men from our relationship, at least in her mind.

She at first came to me about arguments with leadership, her heads.  I went higher up the chain.  We were sent in circles as by two cabinet members.

It hadn't dawned on me marriage is not sacred inside of TWI.  Those boundaries were intended to be porous.

I'm sorry this happened, Bolshevik.  Marital boundaries were nothing to TWI.

I was engaged.  My fiance and I got on fine.  Then my assignment was changed and I became subject to my own Corps bro, who, though he'd been an awful and unsuccessful WoW family coordinator, had been assigned to take over my WoW family and the area I and my team had built up.  My fiance was not really assigned any role but we were both subject to my Corps bro, the now area coordinator. 

Fiance listened to Corps bro and did what he said, never anything fiance and I had agreed.  Corps bro listened to country coordinator, who also was happy to interfere (and tried to bed me to boot).  Country coordinator deferred to LCM.

So there were at least four if not five people in my engagement, of which I was by far and away the least important.

Unsurprisingly, it didn't last.  And I was the "disobedient" one who refused to "be subject to my fiance" (and all the rest of them).  They kicked me out, and received him with open arms and loved him up because I'd given him such a difficult time.

Yes, I'm still angry and resentful about it.  

They all seem to have gone on and lived carefree lives, got married, and had (more) kids.

1 hour ago, Bolshevik said:

I remember now I tried to get to Rivenbark to talk to her.  Walked to her office and was turned away.  Then Rivenbark sent some mousey individual to talk to me

Rivenbark was more canny than the rest of them.  

At some point LCM had a screamfest at me, and he  told me that my Corps assignments that semester had been to work in the Green Room, but Rivenbark kyboshed that with LCM.   I wasn't "spiritually mature" enough.

Many years later, I met J@nuary B@rnes.  She had been badly abused for months by LCM - in the green room.  She told me what went on there, and said I'd had a narrow escape, because I was the type of female that LCM liked.  

While I (sort of) am thankful to Rivenbark about that, I'm sure it wasn't lack of "spiritual maturity" but the knowledge that as a lawyer I might make a big fuss if LCM assaulted me.  And I'd be a credible, reliable, witness.  She was protecting the ministry, not me.

I have heard (here) that Jacqu1 H was an abusee - seems later she turned into an abuser or at least a facilitator.

She was in charge of a group of us sent to Emporia to clean it up, and gather & sort various items prior to being auctioned off.  While she seemed intense at HQ, she was really different at Emporia, more relaxed, more fun to be around. 

Now, I wonder what pressure she was temporarily released from, what spying she didn't have to put up with, in the escape to Emporia.

For myself, I'd not been in rez long and already I was feeling pressure, and that Emporia was somewhat of an escape.

26 minutes ago, OldSkool said:

another Jesus

Well.  There's Jesus.  And Jesus Christ.  And Christ Jesus.

Not to mention Christ, Christ the Lord, and whatever other names and titles they could find, all with conjured-up meanings.  Woe betide anyone who used the wrong name or title!  You were worshipping devil spirits!

But methinks - the Lord - whoever - knows our hearts and understands when genuine praise, thanksgiving or cries for help are presented.

Doesn't TWI have this idea, well, taken from older-style Bibles, that where it says LORD it means God but where it says Lord it means Jesus?  I understand that in Hebrew, they'd never write the name of God or even "God" but rather "G-d" (too sacred).

The same may have carried on to some extent into Greek texts, depending on the basis for the Greek etc.

To make sense of the part Charity quoted, you'd have to look at the Hebrew or Greek word behind that in the English version.

https://www.ancient-hebrew.org/god-yhwh/difference-between-lord-Lord-and-LORD.htm

In any event, TWI's explanation isn't to be trusted.  Better to get your concordance and other study materials out and have a look at what word(s) has/have actually been translated.

It has been used for various purposes. 

Some years, there were permanent in-residence Way Corps ("leadership") trainees throughout the year, at least during the spring to autumn months, not sure about winter.

Summer camps, a week at a time, July-August.  Various teachings on a pre-announced theme in the morning, family free time afternoons with activities laid on, meetings of various types in the evenings.  Some of the afternoon guest activities may include rafting, walking in forests, hiking up mountains, fishing, cart rides, rodeo, bucking bronco machine, clown show, etc.

In later years, it's just been some kind of summer camp or retreat.  I don't know what activities are provided for people holidaying there.

There are also classes, or short courses, run from time to time.

You have to have taken the "foundational class" to be able to visit this camp.  It's not open to the general public.

It's a gorgeous peaceful location, set on the flat valley floor and gently sloping banks of a lovely clear little river.  Breathtakingly great views across to nearby snow-capped mountains.  Purpose built log cabins of various sizes for use as residences for family or individual guests and students, and for teachings, gatherings, a library, and associated facilities.

https://www.theway.org/connect-and-grow/camp-gunnison/

The top photo: My church.  Opened 2010, newbuild, the previous old-fashioned traditional-design church on the same site having burned down, suspected arson (kids broke in to play, played with matches - wastebin - curtains - poof!).  So the church claimed some insurance moneys and requested donations from the congregation, and our new modern church building, very flexible, was built.  The tall part is the meeting room, next to it is front entrance with big lobby, offices to the left, and at back, another smaller (but still very big) meeting room used for children's activities.  There's a fenced outdoor play area with grass and soft resin at the very back.

The second photo: the community centre, immediately adjacent to the church.  This scruffy "temporary" building has been there decades.  My church met in it about once a month  while the old church was demolished and then the new one built - the main congregation meeting weekly with the usual congregation at a different, sister, church half a mile away.  (You can see a sliver of the new church in the background.)

The community centre is on a large piece of land, with car parking, but has been neglected for over 6 maybe 8 years.  Dilapidated, horribly overgrown, shrubs and small trees everywhere, building looking awful, rubbish abandoned underneath the building and out the back.  Car park under 4" of compressed leaves.

We bought it!  In one month, we raised £240,000 in donations and sealed the deal last week.  Painters are already restoring the interior.  A working bee which about 40 adult members of the congregation attended cleared the carpark of all the fallen leaves over the deserted years, all the three and shrub overgrowth, all the rubbish....  hard work, but lots of fun.  Some parents brought their little kiddies, who helped with their tiny spades, or carried twigs to the skip (dumpster).  There's another working bee this coming Saturday; that'll be outside too, but there may be some inside stuff as well, like cleaning the kitchen and sanitary facilities.

There's an 8 foot fence between the two parcels of land.  Concrete posts, wire, and topped by several strands of barbed wire.  Think that may be down in part this weekend, too.

Eventually, the community centre will be demolished and the church, with its graceful lines, will be fully extended into the site, providing a larger church meeting hall, and more offices/smaller space, particularly for the youth activities.

It's been wonderful over the last decade+ to see this community transformed.  The feral youths have grown up, and are better young men for it, having learned discipline and decent manners at the church.  Lonely single parents can meet others at Mums & Toddlers.  Other single people can come to a free lunch on Wednesdays, with activities before and after the lunch.  There's a youth club on Friday nights, where, among other things, table tennis is a popular activity (and one that teaches kids discipline and rules).  There's at least one event at the church every day.  All sorts of people on the surrounding housing estate see us as a place to get help and comfort. 

So - it's going to be exciting seeing the difference over the next decade, when the permanent building is erected and we can continue to glorify God in our service and  expand our offering to the community.

Please pray, if you're the praying sort, for the ongoing work and then the outreach.

43 minutes ago, chockfull said:

Looking at accounts like the I Cor section contrasting the “natural man” with the “spiritual man” with the GP we are left with a confusing mess of what is it SIX different usages of “spirit” as defined in RHST?  That is enough to confuse the brain and make the whole section choppy and saying something completely opposite of a cursory reading.

By contrast, however:

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Ecclesiastes 7 (NT version) :     24 How can anyone discover what life means? It is too deep for us, too hard to understand.

25 But I devoted myself to knowledge and study; I was determined to find wisdom and the answers to my questions, and to learn how wicked and foolish stupidity is.

...

29 This is all that I have learned: God made us plain and simple, but we have made ourselves very complicated.

 

Is that the new Way Prods?  If so, it might even be worth a sneak into a SNS!

Flinging Orange books at each other.

34 minutes ago, Twinky said:

15Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good

I'm not sure how eating butter and honey helps one know to refuse evil and choose good, but hey-ho.  Maybe there was significance in the OT.  Sounds like words spoken by the false comforter Zophar, from Job 20:17.

The description actually seems more like the way of life for John the Baptist, whose diet was locusts and wild honey (ugh).

1 hour ago, OldSkool said:

...It was very uncomfortable for me to post that information but this is what confessed sins and forgiveness looks like. While I am extremely ashamed of who I was and the things I did I will not hide any of it. Granted, I wont talk about my past unless there is a really good reason. But I am able to help people who are dealing with the same problems.

I was badly broken after being kicked out and was a desperate, near suicidal, wreck for a good ten years afterwards.  I was deeply ashamed then, and am ashamed of that person who I'd been turned into.  It wasn't really "me" - I'd been brought up by my parents to be much better than I became.  I hurt people that I cannot apologise to (how I wish I could!).  I don't really talk about it, either.

But I do use the post-TWI experience and growth to try to help others who have been in equally desperate circumstances.  Lemons into lemonade, as it were.  I have much more to share now, and a bigger base for helping others.

Life is sooooooooooooo much better now.  Thank God.  Thank the Lord Jesus, who rescued me from all that stuff.

And furthermore:

The gospel of Luke is fairly bland on the naming of Jesus.  All it says (Luke 2) is:

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17When they [the shepherds] had seen Him, they made known the statement which had been told them about this Child. 18And all who heard it were amazed about the things which were told them by the shepherds. 19But Mary treasured all these things, pondering them in her heart. 20And the shepherds went back, glorifying and praising God for all that they had heard and seen, just as had been told them.

21And when eight days were completed [m]so that it was time for His circumcision, He was also named Jesus, the name given by the angel before He was conceived in the womb.

Gospel of Matthew has a little more detail:

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Matthew 1:20But when he [Joseph] had thought this over, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.  She will give birth to a Son, and you shall name him Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins." 

Now all this took place so that what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet would be fulfilled.  "Behold, the virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they shall name him Immanuel," which translated means, "God with us."  And Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took Mary as his wife, but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a son; and he named him Jesus.

That's a verse from Isaiah 7:14 - https://biblehub.com/kjv/isaiah/7.htm

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The Sign of Immanuel

(Micah 5:1-6; Matthew 1:18-25; Luke 2:1-7)

10Moreover the LORD spake again unto Ahaz, saying, 11Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above. 12But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the LORD. 13And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also? 14Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. 15Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good. 16For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

 

This is how Strong's describes the name Immanuel: 

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Immanuel.
אֵֽל׃ (’êl)
Noun - proper - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 6005: Immanuel = 'God with us' or 'with us is God' 1) symbolic and prophetic name of the Messiah, the Christ, prophesying that He would be born of a virgin and would be 'God with us'

So how come this child was named "Jesus" (God our Saviour) and not "Immanuel" (God with us)?  [ note that -el suffix, as discussed in my above post.  Again, it wouldn't mean that the bearer of the name was God].  Did the angel get confused, or get the names mixed up?  Seems unlikely!  Were Joseph and Mary disobedient?  Also seems unlikely.

Did the baby have more than one name?  Again, seems unlikely.  There are records of males and a few females being given new names in both OT and NT, but they are at specific times when some great thing is about to happen in that person's life.

Perhaps Jesus was named Jesus at his birth and circumcision, and the name Immanuel was only from his baptism at the start of his ministry?  But then, all the gospels continue to call him Jesus.  And all the records of what people called him - also Jesus.  Never Immanuel.

It's clear the name was never anything like the immensely long name, or any part of the name, recorded in Isaiah 9.

And perhaps Isaiah 7:14 is not as prophetic as Christians would like to believe?

Just thinking about names generally in the OT and NT, we know very, very many names include -el or El- (God/Elohim) or Je- (God/Jehovah).  Just about any page you open a Bible, you'll find a name in this format.  Examples: Daniel is a masculine given name and a surname of Hebrew origin. It means "God is my judge" (cf. Gabriel—"God is my strength")  From the Hebrew name דָּנִיֵּאל (Daniyyel) meaning "God is my judge", from the roots דִּין (din) meaning "to judge" and אֵל ('el) meaning "God")  Elisabeth from Heb 'elishebha` (Elisheba), "God is (my) oath," i.e. a worshipper of God), Elijah (a double-God name!), Elishah... and many more.

Doesn't mean that any of these people were God.  

Then we get "Jesus."  Taken to mean "God our Saviour" and therefore that the bearer of the name was himself God.  

The name Jesus is a contraction, common at the time Jesus our Saviour was born.  It's a contraction of Jehoshua - God our Saviour - which itself became shortened to "Joshua." 

The name Jesus is much the same as the older name Joshua and the even older name Jehoshua.  Nobody thought that Joshua, Moses's most faithful and loyal aide, and later the leader into the promised land, was God.

Just calling someone by any of these names doesn't indicate that the child so named was God, any more than naming your own child Daniel or Elisabeth makes that child God.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_(name)

What's clear is that Jesus wasn't given (as far as we know) any name or contraction of any name that appears in Isaiah 9:6.

Bolshevik, you probably knew DWBH.

I slightly edited my post, but your "quote" is still good.