Twinky

I recently was asked to read Proverbs to a friend who's ill (I suspect she meant Psalms).  So I read Prov 14 and 15.  I could not help but think of the current political situation in the US - and of so-called strongmen leaders everywhere.

https://biblehub.com/hcsb/proverbs/15.htm

Full of gems, these chapters.

Just went to see this last Sunday.  Wondered if others had seen it too, and what you thought.

Supposedly documenting the history of the early Christian hippy movement in San Fran, featuring Lonny Frisbee and "Pastor Chuck"  and Greg Laurie, and a band known as Love Song.  

Hmm, I wonder what foreign languages Crommett speaks?  Would be useful if at least one, preferably more, if he's leading a Translations Dept.  Presumably that's part of International Outreach?  Why the new leader?  Why now?  Is there still an IO Dept?  

Crommett I know for sure is proxy director on at least one subsidiary TWI clone overseas; probably in others, too, but that doesn't mean he's really familiar with them or with how they "work" in non-US cultures.  TWI always expected that other countries would work according to the US model, but wiser heads would say that the US model is not the only model.

TWI has a lot of people in Africa and many of the countries in which they're active will speak French; some speak Spanish, and a few, Portuguese, as the main European languages.  In addition, there is work in South America (French, Spanish, Portuguese).  There are many good Bibles already available in these languages.  No PFAL-type materials, of course.  That's what Translations would be doing.  JY de Lisle used to work on French translations, Jorge ?? on Spanish, but that was decades ago.

I seriously doubt that Translations would get involved in Arabic, Chinese or Russian (to mention but a few) translations.

Going to see this on Sunday.

The word of God is the will of God.  

Hmm, the way this thread has gone is all about the "written word" - the Bible.  (And in Mike's case, the collaterals.)

Let's not forget this: 

John 1:14 is one of the most important verses in the Bible. It reads: “The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.”

So if we look at Jesus Christ, the one and only son, who was full of grace and truth, do the actions of this "word" differ from the written principles of the Bible?

The Woman Caught in Adultery

John 8:28So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing on My own, but speak exactly what the Father has taught Me. 29 He who sent Me is with Me. He has not left Me alone, because I always do what pleases Him.” 

Shouldn't Jesus have obeyed the written word and thrown a stone at the woman?

What about when he touched lepers, a strict no-no in the written word?
Jesus responds (Mt 8:3) to the approaching leper (Mt 8:2) - not by resenting him or scaring him away, but by stretching out his hand towards him. As the leper kneels before him, Jesus touches him. Instead of warning Jesus of his uncleanness, the leper makes a statement of faith and begs for healing.

So if you're going to adhere to a belief that "The word of God is the will of God" then you need to reconcile the dichotomy between what the written word says, and some of the actions of the word in manifestation in the form of Jesus Christ.  Fits like a hand in a --- in a what?  A mitten?  A pocket?  A paper bag?

Or was Jesus wrong?  "Off the word"?

Just exactly what word of God is the will of God?

Here we go again.

Covid did amazing things to boost cashless society. 

It's so long since I used cash that I have to look very carefully at both notes and coins to be able to recognise what they are. I usually pay by debit card, but for big purchases, by credit card, because there are extra protections if the item purchased goes wrong.  My bank issued me a global debit card, which is awesome and I can use in almost all countries, without any surcharges, and I can just pay in the local currency, whatever that might be.  For fun, travelling around recently, I used that card to buy things in four different currencies within 12 hours.

Even the homeless guys, begging, have card machines (and probably better phones than my 2012 model with a badly cracked screen).

For sure, banks make a charge to the retailer.  But the retailer gets a benefit, too: doesn't have to count lots of cash at closing time, no time wasted in taking it to the bank, no risk of being mugged to any employee whilst taking cash to a bank, and less risk of being burgled for the cash that they don't hold on the premises.

When I was in New Zealand, oh, late 1980s, cards were widespread then, far more than anywhere else.  You could go into any store and use your card to draw out cash and retailers welcomed that because they didn't then have to bank that cash.  Cards were almost the de facto mode of payment.  And now, most of Europe and Asia (Singapore, etc) are deeply into using cards. 

Surely in the US people are not still on a regular basis using cheques??????  (Or even, checks!)

Cash?  Useful at the local yard / garage sale.  

It's also useful for those on a tight budget and who have difficulty managing to have a fistful of cash and to know that amount of cash, and that alone, has to get them through to next payday or whenever.  If they spend it all at once, well - tough.  There's no more available.

Is "the Word" written in the stars?  Psalm 19:1 says

1

The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.

2

Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge.

3

There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard.

So there is a different written word.  Written zillions of years ago - and still around now.  You can see it every single night, unless there is cloud cover.  The word written in the stars, which we must also study.  Some, perhaps many, of us have read Bullinger's "The Witness of the Stars."  I wondered briefly if Mike would consider that as part of the collaterals, but he probably wouldn't because it doesn't have VPW's name splattered on it.  However, if vpw had pinched chunks of Witness, and published these chunks under his own name, likely Mike would thrill himself with those too.  

I suggest we all take up astronomy immediately, then we can study God's Word in the original language.  Never mind learning Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic; too late on the scene.  If we learned astronomy, who knows, we might even discover some of those missing verses that vpw claimed must exist somewhere. 

PS there are other Bible verses about the word being written in the stars, not just Ps 19:1, but that'll do for starters.

On 7/31/2023 at 4:55 PM, Mike said:

Man!   HOW to love God is in my standard witnessing repertoire, if I get that far.

Do you think you love God, Mike? 

How does that play out in your day to day life? 

And how does that play out in the way you respond to people here?  You doubt what people say, and attribute thoughts and opinions to them that they clearly don't have.

Not another language, but I have lived for long periods (years) in other English-speaking countries.  And there's a different way of thinking, different sets of national expectations (as it were),  so the inhabitants speak and act a little differently.  Use English a little differently.

In my native country, there've been times when I've got "stuck" and it was only when I was thinking like someone in the other country that I managed to move forward.  ("If I were in xxx now, how would I handle this problem?")  A bit strange, but it worked.

I learned other languages in school, but never really used them.  

Mike.  As I said: 

56 minutes ago, Twinky said:

Just read.  Not note-taking and nit-picking.  Just read, for the pleasure of learning and understanding.  One word, then the next, then the next - and you don't need a concordance to do it. 

Not the simplistic collaterals.  Read the book itself. 

Didn't your hero himself advocate that, at some point, before he hauled his 3,000 study aids to the dump?

12 hours ago, Mike said:

I started with the Gospel of John, and had a notebook to record all the possible interpretations I could think of for each verse.  I never finished chapter 1.    I already knew the story, and was totally bogged down in minutia.  Most of my study sessions were quickly converted to nap time.

Just read.  Not note-taking and nit-picking.  Just read, for the pleasure of learning and understanding.  One word, then the next, then the next - and you don't need a concordance to do it. 

Gospel of John isn't the easiest place to start.  You could have tried Mark, considered by many the basis of the synoptic (look up meaning) gospels.  Matthew and Luke are also easy to read.

For myself, it wasn't any of those that started me seeking - it was the riveting adventure story and display of power in Acts of the Apostles.  Couldn't wait to read the next chapter!  I wanted to see that power in everyday life.  I wanted to tap into it.  So then, I could look back at the gospels.

Mike, if one thing doesn't work, try another.  Try reading Mark, Luke, John, Acts, or any of the epistles.  Or even reading parts of the OT (for the time being, not Ezekiel, Isaiah, and some of the other more prophetic books).  Try Good News Bible, a very easy reader, simple English.  Or The Message, in everyday English.  Just read the book.

Only when you have read the book, or sufficient parts of it, are you even remotely qualified to criticise.  And you do criticise the very Bible you purport to believe, when you submerge yourself in Janet & John books that purport to explain the Bible.

" I already knew the story..." - that's got to be a GSC gem, scintillating in its ridiculousness.

"Comely figure" - wow!  Thank you!  When was that?  2007, ooohhh!

I've probably put on about 10lb since then.  So not too bad, but rather wouldn't have it.

Janet & John book 1

(sigh)

Mike, you had a Bible.  You found it hard to read.  There are many versions, including Janet & John type versions for very early learners and those for whom English is not their first language.

You had a Bible.  Yet you never thought to read Acts, or the epistles?  Sounds like you didn't bother with the gospels, either.  Just what, if anything, did you read?

And now you're stuck in Janet & John book 1, the simplest reading book, aka the blue book.

(sigh)

The only cones I'm interested in are ice cream cones.  Unfortunately for my bathroom scales...!

"a right-wing gospel conflating Christianity and patriotism"

US "evangelical Christianity" is nothing like evangelism or Christianity in other countries.  Thank God.

Funny how these evangelical, right-wing Christians are trying to build kingdoms on earth.  Yet Jesus said: "My kingdom is not of this world...but now is my kingdom not from hence."   (John 18:36)  

How hilarious it would be, to see Jesus addressing Congress or the Senate.  He'd be quickly arrested and tried for treason, or confined on grounds of insanity.  And any number of cases of slander would be brought against him when he called out the "leaders" on their hypocrisy.  (You know how much he annoyed the sanhedrin.)

1 hour ago, chockfull said:

I almost got through all of it the same weekend.  It really was riveting reading through it the first time.

Hear that, Mike? 

Are you still going at it, a paragraph a week? 

1 hour ago, Nathan_Jr said:

I heard my fellowship commander throw a lot of snarky, condescending jabs at the KJV translators. I’ve heard the same from off-shooters. Of course, the jabs were delivered with exasperated, patronizing sighs. 

 

You only have to look at the credentials and breadth of knowledge of those who translated the "KJV" (=AV).

And then the credentials and breadth of knowledge of "fellowship commanders."  Yeah.  Really well qualified to make snarky, condescending jabs.  About as well qualified as a flea telling an elephant it can't tread somewhere.

On 7/22/2023 at 1:30 AM, BackForty said:

Mihal Adams.

Rev (ha!) Miceal Adams.  Married to (if he still is) Fel1c1a Purp0ra.  Now country coordinator of New Zealand and Guam.

A chip off the good ole' leadership block.  Has "special MoG needs" and gets ministered to in the small hours by women other than his wife.  But he was a really nice guy before he got "revved."

Just now, Twinky said:

And perhaps one of the "needs" and "wants" in richer countries is the need to recognise God as one's sufficiency and one's provider, and that he overprovides [financially] so that we have sufficient to give to help those who have less than us - whether it's helping those who've lost jobs, homes, and health in one's home country - or whether it's helping to support impoverished families overseas.

I will tell you this.  I had a job, bought a house (yep, bought it, with mortgage and all).  A recession set in, many people were laid off work, including me.  (With this mortgage, so potentially a loss of home!)  It was a difficult time.  And no jobs were out there, despite my strenuous efforts.

I eventually set up doing self-employed work.  I believed God to supply people for whom I could work, and for enough money to meet my own legitimate needs (food, bills, etc) AND to have enough to be able to give to others.  I saw being able to give to others as a need in my life. 

Reviewing my now-long client list, I find that very many are elderly Christians who would otherwise have no-one to help them.  By my working for them, I am helping God supply their need.  Isn't that amazing?  God knows what I need, and he knows what they need, and he matches us together.  Absolutely FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!!!!

What can I say?  Managed to pay off the mortgage early, have no financial worries (except when it comes to retirement, and that's a mild concern but not a worry) and I can keep upping what I can give to support others - in my own country and overseas.  I am very thankful to God for what is available to me and recognise that other countries cannot or will not so provide, so I support various charities that do provide.  Oh, and I support my church as well.  I know what good it does in my community.

You know, just thinking about this "needs and wants being parallel" in context of some of the points raised here - fancy cars, red drapes - reminds me how this concept is so very "Western."  Greed-based.

Spare a thought for what "needs" and "wants" actually are.  Especially if one is in serious poverty, no matter what country one is in.  I have a friend who's been a missionary in Burundi, where he and his family lived for many years.  Most families were and are thrilled if they got one decent meal a day.  D'ya think they're "believing for red drapes"?  No, these people believe God to supply food that will help them keep their families alive.

And perhaps one of the "needs" and "wants" in richer countries is the need to recognise God as one's sufficiency and one's provider, and that he overprovides [financially] so that we have sufficient to give to help those who have less than us - whether it's helping those who've lost jobs, homes, and health in one's home country - or whether it's helping to support impoverished families overseas.

On 7/10/2023 at 2:43 AM, OldSkool said:

Ima be leaving now

Are you off on some parallel track now, OS?

Sorry you feel the need to leave, T-Bone.  Do look in on us from time to time.  Your wit and wisdom will be sorely missed.

I will PM you.

19 hours ago, chockfull said:

The initial appeal to me was a group of knowledgeable committed Christians who studied scripture and were disciplined to live it.

Same for me.

And I also saw some amazing answers to prayer.  

What I didn't see was people "going through the motions" - but, instead, genuine belief and commitment.