Twinky

Hi John, nice to see you back here again. You say: "my cult" (speaking of TM) which is presumably a sort of shorthand. I can't think of TWI as being "my cult" but rather, "the cult that I was in." To call it "my" cult implies more ownership and buying-in than I care to acknowledge or be associated with now. But maybe that's just me. Have fun and enjoy life!

Good to know all's well with you! ((Ex10)) BBQ still going ahead then. Never mind the crane to remove the tree on the roof, get the GSers to heave it upright or chop it down for firewood for that fire pit of yours!

RG, that's horrible and completely ungodly. Your son needed love and compassion. Just a kid...kids fidget, make little noises, mess about, and rarely seem to be paying attention. Yet ask them about it later, and you may get a surprisingly full version. Perhaps your son couldn't do that but if you have managed to raise him, with his disabilities, to love God, you have done wonderfully well. "Suffer little children" means "Allow little children" (to come close to the Lord) - not "endure" little children. The "lovingly adopted by the child’s free will. Each individual grows up with freedom of will" bit really got to me, having seen how some parents hit their children for just being kids. There have been threads at the Cafe about the ill-treatment meted out to children; I wondered how some of our patrons who had been say Family Corps felt about their freedom of will. Some kids weren't raised with a silver spoon in their mouths but with a green card there.

That's what I saw on my first visit to TWI HQ - smart and talented people doing menial or even workless jobs. Seriously underutilized. I asked one or two about it and the stock response was that they were happy doing whatever was needed to move the Word, or some variation on that theme. To me, it seemed like they had been bludgeoned into a back alley, but then I thought I was just seeing them at a quiet time. Later, I realized that most of them really were desperately bored. What a waste. Obviously STFI didn't consider better utilization of ability something worth changing.

For Cafe visitors who were raised in TWI. Your examination question for today on the subject of Living in God's Power: From the Way International website, April 2008: "Our Powerful Examples of Young People in the Word "In the Bible, a young person is referred to as a youth until he reaches 30 years of age. To walk in truth and to stand for God, young people need purehearted love for Him, for His Word, and for others, which they learn from the example and training of their parents. They also need the self-discipline to carry out the Word, which is built by the training of their parents and then lovingly adopted by the child’s free will. Each individual grows up with freedom of will and becomes accountable to God for his own life. " Discuss, with particular reference to the words in bold type.

Oh I dunno. There's a cute bit where the man does some "moon walking" in the middle of it. LCM admired Michael Jackson's dancing ability. Looks like this is a bit of a copy... old LCM thinking, too... And the other lot... so disorderly. Hands not waving in unison, not smiling exactly the same, no gestures exactly matching, and one of the principal singers singing to himself off mike while the principal girl singer was singing her bit. ...Hooray for a bit of spontaneity!

T-Bone...nobody in the world could call "mark and avoid" subtle. Not even TWI with their amazing ability for double speak! Love your posts, T-Bone, and often read the books you suggest. Am working through one of the Linda Elder books on critical thinking right now. One day I might get to be as sharp as I was (or clearly wasn't (!) ) when I took PFAL and had all those niggling questions and concerns. Tzaia: "like mindedness" is one of those concepts that was abused. We are to put on the mind of Jesus Christ - not the mind of the "man of God", "President", twig leader or whoever else fancies being in authority. Also, we are to be "imitators" (followers) of our leadership as our leadership is itself imitators of Christ (1 Cor 11:1). TWI demanded followship of the rank and file but forgot about or ignored their followship of Christ.

The essence of Waybrain is not so much the doctrine as the absolute control over what we thought. We were not allowed to consider any teaching/doctrine other than what TWI gave us and our critical thinking abilities were crushed. Coupled with that, we were taught that we were better than other people (and specifically, better than other Christians), and others were to be treated with suspicion. I think (yes, I think nowadays) that if we can get rid of that superiority idea that we are the only ones God will speak to, but instead learn to respect other people (especially other Christians); and if we can examine such doctrines or beliefs as we still subscribe to, in light of what we learn from others (especially other Christians), we can with honesty consider ourselves "de-Wayed." WD, nobody is asking you to abandon all your beliefs as taught by TWI. Some of them are required for any Christian (a belief in the death and resurrection of Jesus, for example, which appears in PFAL but doesn't receive much publicity later). It's a matter of examining one's beliefs carefully and honestly, and adjusting where necessary. And also of continually adjusting, where necessary, as we learn and understand more and we are reminded of other scriptures which throw a different light on a belief. It is essential to understand the difference between what God instructs, and man's instructions. In other words, thinking about and not just absorbing what has been taught. So yes, with an open heart to God, it is possible to be "de-Wayed" - though as a specific time of our lives, it will always be part of our history.

I lived in a country that had a serious risk of earthquakes and every year the government would send around to every household a list of what to do and where to keep it. In addition to what TempleLady says: Don't forget a first aid kit of some sort - band-aids, bandages, scissors, some kind of disinfectant. Advice also included putting a note (actually back cover of the tel directory, preprinted for the purpose) on the door or some obvious place, to say that the property had been cleared of people. Saves rescuers some time, don't have to search known vacant and potentially dangerous sites. A small tent may be better than a tarp. A camping stove may be better than an open fire. Use lightweight pans (not cast iron) which require less energy to heat them. A windup radio is helpful. A windup flashlight is also helpful but if you can't get a windup one, then any other flashlights and make sure you have spare batteries. Some emergency food in cans (and some way of opening the cans!!) Have an agreed plan where to meet or how to contact other family members if you are not all at home when disaster strikes.

Many years ago I was at HQ and we were preparing for the Rock. My recollection is that the big marquees had been erected. A tornado (small one) came through and HQ was right in its path. A lot of prayer went on. The tornado could be seen in the distance and it sort of veered off to the left, missing all TWI land, later resuming more or less its original course once past TWI land. Well not being a local lass, I couldn't say about the details and whatever it was - it was a gray whirly mass that approached (but perhaps slowly) from the distance and then drifted off to the side. (This I did see.) And it was mighty windy (this I felt!). And there was much concern for the state of the marquees. Anyway: I just read on another thread that Ohio 's power is out and Ike is messing around in the midwest. Am just wondering if anyone knows how HQ may have been affected. No doubt they have their own generators and can have some power available for essentials. But did they "pray away" the worst of the winds, and claim God's hand of protection over the property? Have they not suffered any damage? Or only minor damage? Without doubt, any lack of damage will be attributed to the mighty protection of God (and maybe it is) and the power of prayer (and maybe it is) but more likely is due to just being on the edge of the storm. Any innies reading this, what's the information you were given? Maybe there will be something on your latest SNS (still to come)? Have they (cough) offered help to anyone?

Wow. Ten days ago, Tuxy crept onto my lap for the first time. Now - she thinks she ought to be on the sofa when I am on it. Better, she thinks she should be on my lap. Often she gets on by herself. Occasionally she sits near and I can sort of ease her onto my lap. She is happy that I do this as she is fully in contact with the sofa or my leg or whatever makes her secure. Today she crept alongside me and I sort of shoved her onto my lap. She was really enjoying being fondled and seemed quite relaxed so I tried something new. I folded her into my arms and held her to my chest, stood up and walked around the room just a little. She trembled with fright, but did not struggle except gently just at first, then remained trembling in my arms. When I sat down I made her stay on my lap for a few minutes and then let her leave, which she did unhurriedly. This really does count as a major milestone. For a cat that is terrified of physical contact - she is "overcoming her doubt, worry and fear" in a big way. Other cat Crypto is much more confident, demands to be stroked and pushes Tuxedo out of the way so that she, Crypto, can be stroked, and occasionally takes a gratuitous swipe at Tuxy. While I don't like the hitting bit, it shows she has become much more assertive and is less likely to put up with bullying from Tuxy. Also she is pushing Tuxy away from the food bowl (quite something, that!) and is eating much more. She appears to be getting rather plumper, not that she's fat, in fact far too thin; and her coat quality has softened and is really nice to touch. A new friend came to visit with me yesterday and both cats were constantly present, ie, did not hide behind the furniture, and also played with the new person.A few months ago, they would hide if a new person came to visit. Maybe in a couple of years, I will end up with "normal" cats...? Geisha, do show your photos of your crazy pair, high on the catnip!! They are too funny!

Don't know that I know you, Socks, except through the Cafe, but your posts are always enjoyable and thoughtful. Best wishes for a delightful birthday and a wonderful year ahead. Twinx

I got to talk with Ex10 last night. She sounded so miserable. With having no power, it is stiflingly hot. She thought the house was undamaged but of course no-one has not been up a ladder to check the roof, but no water seems to have got in. Her mum's home has also not suffered any damage though a tree has blown down. Even so, Ex10 is better off than some people in Texas, who have been flooded or had considerable damage to real estate or to vehicles. She can be phoned but not necessarily emailed (no power to hook up!). Prayers, of course, bypass "normal" worldly channels. ((((Ex10 and HotSax))))

From the "Will the real vpw-ministry remnant please stand up" thread:

nowIsee: you are absolutely disparaging Brit cooking. Yeuuk. Mushy peas....aargh. (LOL) Yeah, they're actually very popular in some parts of the country, especially the north of England. Mushy peas (as served in fish and chip shops) are not made with fresh peas but with dried processed peas. I believe they have a dollop of bicarbonate of soda in with them, which gives them an unnatural bright green color. Personally I don't believe there are any peas in the mush at all. They can be purchased in cans, from many supermarkets. Kinda like refried beans, except bright green. And far less pleasant. Now if anyone has a recipe for pea soup I'd like that, as I have a lot of homegrown peas in the freezer.

Bravo Newlife Since God wants us to reach all people, then he must want us at all places in society. JC hung about in the pubs and clubs of his day. He mixed with the down-and-outs. Dregs of society. Prostitutes and alcoholics. Sick people He also mixed with the professional classes: tax gatherers, small businessmen (first disciples). JC fed the hungry (okay, so the people forgot the picnic - but they were still hungry) It's not "God in a box" regarding one's calling. So yes, it may look a little different, but everywhere there are people with needs. The focus of needs may change as our own circumstances may change (eg, it may not be appropriate to do some things with babies in tow). TWI forgot this (or ignored it). But God doesn't forget.

Sounds like a good business opportunity might be opening up there, Waysider! Though you shouldn't just rely on the chosen 12. I reckon this will be "sweet as" for the first 2-4 years, a bit like the Way Corps except for the Zero Corps, and then (if it continues) will become increasingly regulated. The kids could probably learn a heck of a lot more digging wells in Africa, or working as volunteers out in India or Bangladesh or Hungary or Albania.

We all know the bit in Ephesians about there being apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers set within the body for the edification of the believers. But what about this bit: 1 Cor 12:27.Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. 28.And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29.Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30.Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret ? Where did the evangelists and pastors disappear to? Then we get into all these other things, some of which we were taught are manifestations of the spirit. What are the "helps"? The "governments"? Some people who attend the church I go to say they have the "gift of administration" which they use to serve in various rather "boring" church capacities - treasurer, organizer, secretaries, etc. They're blessed. Okay that bit was slightly off topic, but someone has raised something about it earlier. When I was a kid, aged in single digits, I was going to be a missionary and go to Africa and tell the poor people there about how good God was and what Jesus had done for them. God has such a sense of humor. It was a Nigerian who witnessed to me - in very nearly my home town! I never went out as a missionary to Africa but I did move to another country and there held out the Word, also going WoW there. I went into the Corps from there and that did derail a lot of things I'd hoped to do. Corps principle 5 - "Go forth as leaders and workers in areas of concern, interest and need" says it nicely and at the time I thought that would be areas of concern, interest and need such as - social work; being a doctor, a dentist; working in a hospital; working with underprivileged people; working in business / commerce and bringing a dose of Christian ethics to everyday life... God had opened some astonishing doors for me to train in my chosen professional area and I believe it was a Godly choice. Now that got seriously derailed when it became clear that it was areas of concern etc to TWI, and when I sought to return just on a part-time basis to my chosen profession, I got such a load of **** and condemnation heaped on me for despising the riches of my calling as Way Corps and they had cast their riches before swine and I was a dog returning to my vomit... God doesn't want us tied into something constraining. He wants us free to move and influence all levels of society, all types of people, salting anywhere and everywhere. He can work with and through anyone who has a humble heart. So yes. Seriously derailed.

Grass. Their latest thing is - grass. They have to have a small handful of fresh grass every day. This they chow into with much enthusiasm. It seems to be nearly as enjoyable as ham (sorry, Mr Squirrel!!). Can't wait till they are allowed outside. Grazing sheep? Forget it! This year's model is grazing cats. Got them a new cat scratch pole/ perching thing from Freecycle this week. They love it. Crypto the scaredy took possession immediately and beat Tuxy off. Later, from a lower perch, she attacked Tuxy from a lower perch, and grabbed Tuxy by the throat! I surmise this was not painful and may be part of some sort of play fighting they get up to anyway, as Tuxy did not seem at all bothered. Crypto is getting much more assertive and has made several attacks on Tuxy and on me, all very minor, but it is so strange that it is she who does it. Fell asleep lying on my sofa the other evening. Awoke some hours later to find Tuxedo happily asleep on my feet.

This is a difficult area, because we'd all bought into the idea (at the time) that TWI was guardian of the truth and the churches were all ds influenced. Therefore, the more anyone said, the more possessed they must have been. Therefore, the more to be disregarded. In fact, I think the "forceful indoctrination" (WW's method B) is all the more likely to keep someone dug even more deeply into TWI. The more outward looking approach of comparison and looking at other Christian movements is on face more likely to succeed but again is open to TWI filter impressions of, "It's nly succeeding because it's ds influenced." Lifted Up: sounds like they only succeeded in paralyzing you in even more fear. Not "release from your bonds." You were out before I ever got in. Can't wrote much at the moment. My TWI past caught up with me, and caught me completely by surprise, last night and I need to settle a little before I can do things coherently. Nothing to worry about.

I think I have to have my own private BBQ this year (not that November is the ideal time, here) though it just won't be the same without you wonderful lot. At least I will be able to smell the ... smoke... I can play HotSax's CD to give atmosphere. Dammit, I want a job so's I have some disposable cash.

Hey this is cool. So I can change the colors just a little. Never noticed that feature before. I have "Denim" and "Default" to choose from. When I chose Denim I got pale green and purplish; Default is blue BUT the advantage of Default is that the viewing screen is rather wider. Denim has a 1/2" gap all the way round. Weird, that. Oh, and I also get Folders and not little crosses at the left side. Which is better, because the colors are too dark and appear too similar. (edited to add the bit about folders)

There have been lots of threads started or discussing how people coped with life after TWI, people having visited therapists, psychiatrists, church groups, Alcoholics Anon, divorce groups, etc. There is another group of people who were "rescued" by friends or family and underwent "deprogramming" at the hands of (possible?) experts. Soem of those people escaped and went straight back to TWI. Some may have escaped and stayed away from TWI. Some may have escaped and returned to TWI and then left voluntarily or been thrown out later. This is a group of people whose experiences I have never seen discussed here. If you are one of this group, please will you share some of what the deprogramming was like, and its effects on your life then and now? For example: At what point did you realize TWI wasn't what it set itself up as? Did you believe the deprogrammers? Did what they said or did change your mind in any way, or just strengthen your belief in TWI as God's chosen organization? What made you leave TWI, ultimately? How do you feel now about those who gave you up to the deprogrammers? ...or whatever else you want to tell us at the Cafe.

Bump...

Dunno about all this stuff cross-stiching. Can be a great stressor when you realize you stitched something wrong several rows back and now your pattern doesn't fit together! Seriously, though, cross-stitching is very absorbing. Walking is a great release for me. Many fields and woods nearby. Always a release to walk out for a few hours and talk things over with my Dad. I also do gardening and find that very relaxing, especially after a very busy or tense day at work. If not walking, some other form of physical exercise. When I was studying for my degree, I found squash a major release. I projected my frustrations and difficulties onto the squash ball and beat the heck out of it. And if you use a computer at work, you might find it helpful to affix a photo(s) of people and/or pets and/or places that you love in the corner or stand a photo on your desk. It'll bring a smile to your face when you look at it.