dancing

I understand Carl, Though narrow is the way, there are many entrances.

interesting perspective of the relationship between snakes and men seen throughout the kjv as far as i can tell

yeah Abi,....lol stepping into something live like that i have reservations bout a planned approach hopefully it would just go with the flow having been in twi has still left it's mark on me the scar remains but the pain is remembered though sometimes the scar is forgotten, like it's not even there anyways...the healing of the world-the topic i truly think it has been done and is being done and will be done kind of a done deal...lol... we just don't see it yet fully progressive theology is an interesting approach to realization and enlightenment as we continue along the path

Abigail, I'd be interested in anything that became or becomes of that. Wondering what kind of dialog and such...

thanks t, always a welcome word to see that nothing really is as it appears but as we are ready so shall we be ready.... and somehow i keep posting here don't really know why....

There were no drugs or games or any religious beliefs involved. There was one of my sons aggravating his mother at the dinner table. getting occasional slight shakes, seemingly without much attention from anyone but me. Later after the computer had to be reformated he was on a site that was promoting some thinking that was not good. I asked him about it and as he looked at me I saw what was indeed a sign of bad spiritual air. i told him not to go to those sites anymore and that he would loose his computer if he did. He got real mad and started breathing heavily. so I sent him to his room. Shortly afterwards I went up to reenforce this communication we were having. He was still breathing heavily and saying angry things. He was laying on his stomach with his face in his hands. Breathing heavily and working it up further. I reached around him and wrapped both arms around him and held him close and told him to keep breathing heavily and relax a little. I prayed or rather told this bad air to get out and leave my son right now. My son said 'what is this an exorcism', I told him to relax and continue to breath and demanded that this leave that moment. As I was still holding him, he suddenly slowed his breathing and as if awkening out of a bad dream he asked me 'what just happened dad'. I told him to not worry about it and get some sleep and rest and that I loved him. He said 'ok' and that he loved me and would do what i said. So he went to sleep. Since then he has never gotten to the point he was that night. If you knew my son, you would know what a loving guy he is. And i know that kids pitch fits and get mad no matter how loving their nature may be, but this was different. I had no idea what i was doing but i knew the great love it takes to work. I knew there was something there and i knew that it had left. And it has never been back despite my fear for sometime afterwards that it might. It was not a challenging counterfeit. It was not close to the genuine so as to hide. It was shown to me, even in my ignorance what to do without knowing why or what to do next. I wasn't looking for it or suspecting anything. But there it was, and there it went by the mercy and grace of our Lord. I cannot say that it was a counterfeit. Never saw it as that. What I did see was the hand of God at work and yielding to His will in this situation. Out of love only, not from knowledge that's for sure. I have seen other things that are not related to my son. I have yet to figure some of them out, but beginning to see more of what i saw. and continue to see. These things are a growing experience and a revealing of that which cannot be seen without the spirit at work, subject to the will of God. only love can see...

Hi Galen, Sounds like a mutual submission to me. As the scriptures declare, submit yourselves one to another. The head is God or Christ or both. Wether one believes they are the same or not. Here in these verses.. 1 Corinthians 11 1Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. 2Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you. 3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. 5But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. 6For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. 7For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. 8For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. 9Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. 10For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. 11Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. 12For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God. 13Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? 14Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. Has to do with following Christ. Long hair is talking about a following. Along with the Nazarite vow. Which includes cutting the hair. Get a following or follower and cut them off and give them the spiritual freedom that God wants them to have. It is a shame for one to have a great following. But for the woman-the spirit, it is a glory to her. 22Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. 28So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. 29For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: 30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband. And this sounds very mutual. The head is nothing without the rest. And not to put you and your marriage down in any way at all. And not to even disagree. But to shift into a further understanding. I do hope you see that. Some VERY spiritual verses in Ephesians 5 here.

Anyone who has or is married surely can see that the woman is not submissive to the man. It's obviously speaking of something very different them relationships between mortal men and women. There has to be and is other ways of seeing this very spiritually rather then by carnal eyes. What does it mean for the woman- Please note that this is not called a curse. And quite possibly a good thing. Throughout the scriptures the woman represents the Spirit. And who would the husband be? Adam? Or the last Adam? Or both. The word husband is used in various ways. It even refers to Christ.

Great post Abigail, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, no male and female in Christ," does this also mean that we can't be all? does neither negate being both? speaking of mystism in writings, there is much of in the old and new testaments, and in the writings today. depends on the way in which it is perceived Peter and John and Luke come to mind quite readily. As well as Genesis and Job and the psalms and proverbs. Especially John with the revelation of Jesus Christ. A book widely misunderstood and under valued. But seen in as John saw it in the day that will come and keep coming. The gospels, when seen spiritualy and not carnally will open the eyes. Without the torah there is no christianity. To be a jew in heart is christian, in the venacular. More precisely, to believe from the heart those things which we have seen and heard. Is to be a a believer in the things of God that he shows us. And he certainly will not stop showing us more, that would be quite boreing if he didn't. :)

the same yesterday today forever heaven is my throne the earth my footstool what place will you build me who can see what was is and will be who changes? us or God?

If one seeks division it will be found. If one seeks unity it will be found. What is it you search for Carl? Christ is not separate from God or our selves. Do you want to see it or invent vain imaginations. Which is nothing new, that power is within us also.

Hi Carl, What makes the "early church writers" any different the writers today?

the understatement of the centuries... how can one separate Christ from God

The enmity is between the spirit and the carnal I believe. The Woman being spirit. It was after this that Adam called the woman Eve. Because she was the mother of all living. Romans 8:6-8 6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. Of course my knowledge is severely limited having been trained in kjv language. But the language of the spirit will reach the spirit. As I believe it works in every person, expanding the arena of possibilities is always welcome.

Ok read the articles, although i'm sure there is more to be learned. What exactly was cursed? 14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. 16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. 17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. Seems to me the serpent and the ground is what was cursed. And I don't think this is a separate entity-Satan-from ourselves. Just as the ground is not that which is under our feet but our minds. Therefore we look to the spirit for blessings. Not sure exactly how Judaism words the curses along with what the kjv says. And I'm not putting it down but gathering more light. Here's a good liturgy of the mind at work... Isaiah 24 1Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof. 2And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him. 3The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word. 4The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish. 5The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. 6Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left. 7The new wine mourneth, the vine languisheth, all the merryhearted do sigh. 8The mirth of tabrets ceaseth, the noise of them that rejoice endeth, the joy of the harp ceaseth. 9They shall not drink wine with a song; strong drink shall be bitter to them that drink it. 10The city of confusion is broken down: every house is shut up, that no man may come in. 11There is a crying for wine in the streets; all joy is darkened, the mirth of the land is gone. 12In the city is left desolation, and the gate is smitten with destruction. 13When thus it shall be in the midst of the land among the people, there shall be as the shaking of an olive tree, and as the gleaning grapes when the vintage is done. 14They shall lift up their voice, they shall sing for the majesty of the LORD, they shall cry aloud from the sea. 15Wherefore glorify ye the LORD in the fires, even the name of the LORD God of Israel in the isles of the sea. 16From the uttermost part of the earth have we heard songs, even glory to the righteous. But I said, My leanness, my leanness, woe unto me! the treacherous dealers have dealt treacherously; yea, the treacherous dealers have dealt very treacherously. 17Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth. 18And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake. 19The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. 20The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again. 21And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. 22And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited. 23Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously. I think this is about the birth of the spirit... 15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. 16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. And i also think this is speaking of what can happen now here in Rev 22 Revelation 22 1And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. 5And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. Although it is quite the deal to get here in our minds. Any thoughts Abigail? I'm not held to or limited to anything, but ready to see more.

Hi Abigail, It's funny and interesting and inspiring and heart warming when faiths meets. I have crossed paths with a few and it it is always a blessing. I haven't followed the links you provided. I expect you are not hurt. But to really see Christ or any other name it is called work within. It is a blessing to my soul. And works in many ways. This Christ or whatever it's called in any religion or thinking, does not negate truth. Truth a double edged blade, cutting in and out and healing at the same time. I sort of feel like an artist or musician that doesn't want to be influenced by others much. Many great artists in music and art seclude themselves so as not to be influenced by others. But to really see what can be seen. Others do influence me in good ways though. Why even allan has crossed paths with me though he may not have seen it. And as we cross paths with mutual believing-believing what we have seen and heard and ready to answer-it is quite the uplift in spirit and soul and body, which are all interlinked. And needed in so many ways. We have been on this place for sometime now and more then once we have met face to face without even seeing each other. Even disagreements are only on the surface. You Friend Always, Clay

24For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 25Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. Hard for some to hear maybe, but Jesus had to sin to die. Without the shedding of blood is no remission. Jesus shed his blood for all, even himself. Now it's a different deal-a second time without sin unto salvation. Every man in his own order. Here and now or later it will happen. No one will not look for Christ either now or later. The Christ-the true reality of Life. he shall appear the second time without sin unto salvation which means to me Christ is here but not yet appeared to many the Glory that shall be revealed in us

it's literally figurative and figuratively literal it's real, only God can open our eyes to it and more and more when we keep looking

Just a few Carl, Though it's what we do anyway. And welcome to Greasespot. Listen, Seek, Ask, Don't be afraid. Even when it sounds really different. No one is attacking you...usually :) And it's not an end..... It's what was, is and will be. Reality of the unseen unlimited God, seen in the mind and more. Many doctrines stop the seeker usually, because it is an end. An end of looking. Know more about what you don't really know in your heart, faith in that which you can really see and experience. There is no end of what we can find that we already have. Awaken the awareness and attention to the pure in heart. Peace.

Faith happens. So does Love. A conscious effort to love is honorable. Picture this- God's love flowing through you, He loved us first right? To bring our minds and hearts to the place of acceptance of this love is a selfless act. A conscious effort to love is our doing which frees that love that God has. Out of our mouths shall flow rivers of living water. The living Word, the Living God. God is love. Faith happens when our minds see it. Not in the physical carnal realm. Although the physical can be quite tricky. Which is where the manifestations as a whole work well. And not only with the physical but nothing is excluded. As the man wills-so says twi. The Spirit must will too. And to line up these wills, will transform and renew our minds. By the work of the Lord, not our work. Some may say this is works. Is love works or can we just let it flow from us. Because it's already there. In every person. But to let sometimes means to break down the things stopping it. With God's spirit at work. Peacefullness comes when we love and let our selves be loved. And to experience this is love joy faith and the rest, and more. The manifestations are not singular as in 9 in number. But to illustate in part the workings of Christ within. Because Christ is not limited, so neither are we. We are not limited to what is written in the bible. Although both the old and new testaments are in play every day. But rather to hear from God in our inner man. Limited by how much we can handle at any given moment.

I don't think the soul ever sleeps. If you are referring to the soul as who you are. And if one is referring to the spirit, which i think is so intertwined with the soul that only the living Word can separate it for us. I do not believe the dead are dead. I believe in change that kills and makes alive. In destroy and rebuild out of the same stuff. The words destroy and kill. If something is destroyed or killed, whatever it is made of is still there. Although changed. There's nothing new under the sun. So to say that God creates spirit within would be something new. Of course this is twi teaching. Which i don't believe. There is one Spirit. How diverse is it? Does the spirit change the soul? Or does the soul change the spirit? Jesus is recorded as believing he knew what was in man. What did he know?

Sometimes destroying is repairing. Destroy this temple and rebuild it. If God is the oven then I am the bread.

Speaking of women in the bible. It's interesting to note that the angels appeared to Mary then Joseph. Kind of different and then when God talked with Adam and Eve. Also this is very interesting and I think is talking much more about our birth and not Jesus' birth. Although it includes it as well. Revelation 12 1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. The pain as sirg mentioned is real, whether physical or spiritual. But worth it.

a monologue sounds pretty good you know how excited I get gettting a little even toned sounds good

From a surface reading God says "yes here is the tree of knowledge of good and evil". "Here is what you do not have". "You have everything yet you cannot have this". What is God actually saying? Then the serpent is there IN THE GARDEN! Don't mean to shout. But why is he there where God placed him-man. Do we think God didn't know the serpent was there? Did God think that the serpent wouldn't do what he did? I believe, and this is very elementary, and logical that this is the plan for man to become one in Christ. To dethrone the serpent out of Christ's rightful place in the mind as clearly as 2 Thessalonians details in the second chapter. The will of man and woman meeting the Lord in the air, becoming one in unity and one as they always have been, yet know clearly face to face seeing what the dragon is. And bring forth the man child. The Christ. And the flood of many waters will lift the ark above the earth and above the mountains, (which are not mentioned till after the flood started). And the flood of the word of God will lift the righteous and bring the righteous back down again. And it will happen again. But there is nothing like the first time. Like the first born. Like the son of man which are many but one all over the world.. Like the only begotten of God. Retaining our individuals and that which works in our hearts so clearly. Yet our minds doubt ourselves. And the greatness of the Christ within us. Did Jesus not cry? Did Jesus not get angry? Did Jesus not have compassion as we do? This is the Christ along with the wisdom of God that makes foolish the wisdom of this world. Why, there are sons and then there are Sons. We are all in this together and no one will be left out. Even those before the flood are redeemed. Even those of Sodom and Gomorrah are redeemed in Jesus' own words. Can he not save even them that are so lost that it takes knocking them off their high horse and blinded by the light till a brother touched his life, and we have this record today. I wonder how many more times this has happened that we have not seen. I wonder how many times it has happened before our eyes and we did not see it. I also wonder about those who taste and step back because of fear of the unknown. Fear of loosing something that God would never take away. There will be things lost, but much more gained as selfishness and self righteousness falls to pieces in his presence. Dieing here and now so that the new man and woman can live. And sure we all make mistakes. God's grace and mercy and Love are more then enough to cover it. Those in the old testament couldn't see this because of the vail upon their eyes. Still today there remains for many the vail which is not taken away ..... yet. That man of sin, that son of perdition will die with the breath of the Christ, the double-edged sword coming out of his mouth-out of your mouth. cause others can only brush up against the Spirit that is within and stir up it's heat. And burn the bad and redeem the good. A transformation into a new creation that has always been there yet sleeping as a seed waiting to be born. And when this world has passed there will be nothing to hold it back. So Eve, the mother of all living breathing life into man. The Spirit of God which is feminine in nature. Wisdom which is feminine. God knows we have enough masculine gods around. Put these two together in one person and fasten your frigging seat belt. Cuz it's one hell of a ride and no one will miss it and it is unlimited even after our flesh fails. We will continue as one in Christ where there is neither male nor female.