oldiesman

Hi Penworks, thx for that! I know of one other interpretation by TWI that was posted on GS once, from Free Spirit Magazine arguing against late-term abortion written by D. Craley that if the baby can live by itself outside the womb, it's presumed to have its own soul and shouldn't be aborted. I think the piece was from the 80s. But that quote from 1971 is amazing and should have settled it!

Thx Raf for your opinion. I'm leaning to the preterist view, i.e., Christ's completed work eventually established the 'body of Christ', the true modern-day Israel, inhabited by both Jew and Gentile believers in Christ-- that negates the old covenant of Israel under Judaism. The preterist belief also is shared by some very strict Catholics who have been described as 'partial-preterists' by the preterists themselves. Some trad Catholics still believe that Jews and Gentiles who haven't accepted Christ as Lord and Savior are destined to hell because of original sin. Am working on a short video of someone sharing that viewpoint that can be posted here in a few days. BTW here is Ward's "letter to his Dad" concerning Darby, if anyone is interested: A LETTER TO MY DAD CONCERNING JOHN NELSON DARBY ON ROMANS 11-Preterism, Darby, and eschatology and Preterist soteriology concerning the second coming of Christ in the clouds; Preterism and Preterist eschatology, Darby, the rapture and prophecy from a preterist perspective

What's your take on Ward's offering? Specifically, the completed works of Christ biblically ended the old covenant and the "land grant"?

All I'm after is the biblical...honest... have friends on both sides of the argument and am sincerely torn between the two. Raf can you offer your biblical wisdom?

Here is an offering from a friend who shares the Preterist view on this topic:

There's no real way for me to judge without experiencing her church for 6-12 months and see for myself, but she seems to believe in predestination i.e. everything is in place, ordained by God regardless of one's faith? i.e. Jesus paid for the sins of mankind therefore everyone is saved regardless? She believes in the Nicene Creed but is that alone enough to be saved? Again, need more exposure I think.

I've got mixed feelings about this topic. One the one hand, yes the old testament teaches that it's a perpetual land grant. On the other hand, numerous other Christians believe Jesus ended this prophecy with the church of the body which is comprised of Jew and Gentile, the modern-day Israel. Preterists do not believe in the land grant and I don't believe TWI did either. Anyway here's the land grant view: A Royal Land Grant (jerusalemprayerteam.org) All comments welcome.

This one was easy for me: "The Way reportedly teaches that members will suffer harm or death if they go into debt" Here's one from me: "The Way reportedly teaches that members will suffer harm or death if they do not tithe or abs." It can scare the living crap out of someone who takes this seriously.

I wonder if it goes way way back to Jesus. One of the biggest is "lead us not into temptation"?

Raf, your thoughts please. This might be idiom-related? When the scripture says "I come quickly" (Rev. 22:20) and "this generation shall not pass till all these things be done" (Matt. 24:34), what do you think is the most accurate interpretation out there? Thx.

Thank you Thank you Charlene for your kind offer.

the catholic mass has been described as "being there" at that very moment of the crucifixion... time travel... still trying to wrap my head around that one!

You've got me. Knowing VPW he likely would have said "figure of speech"? Catholics believe it literally was a miracle.

Excellent joke! My "mother in catholicism" once told me she thought Luther should have stayed in the catholic church despite all the hypocrisy, imperfections and impurities. So was Luther protesting primarily out of self-interest? Still working that one out in my head! "Slacktivism" is a new word for me ... 'keyboard warrior syndrome" maybe? I'm ok with keyboard warriors as long as it's not the only thing one does but only a tool or way to do much more as the need arises.

Thx for posting. I too think it's a general insult to other Christians. I've seen it happen firsthand: Catholics disparage protestants; Protestants disparage catholics. Instead of focusing on what we have in common; we bark insults. I've since learned that the only true way you really know is get involved with the group you think is wrong and experience for yourself -- and maybe even try to teach them the better way if you're so inclined.

I think this is a very valid question because there is inherent power in groups. The Catholic church talks about the mystery of the "communion of saints". Haven't quite figured out that one yet but it's a topic to explore.

Most sickening. Thx for sharing.

YW, and thanks for sharing.

Yes. Rocky and WordWolf hit the nail on the head... my good friend is my "Mother in Catholicism" who I thank for and encouraged me to go back there after decades. I was baptized catholic... as a youngster participated but then broke with them when my parents split.. sorry for the confusion.

Can you share what happened? Yes. It was powerful. So powerful that I use it today with my Catholic "mother in Catholicism" who encouraged me to go back there.

Dave Craley

A long, long time ago... will never forget the first time I set foot on HQ... hitchhiked from Emporia (6 Corp), landed in the BRC.