oldiesman

This may be a great post in a thread called "VPW was Elmer Gantry". (and I liked both men...VPW and Burt Lancaster.) LOL

Thx Raf just ordered it from Amazon... looking forward...

I'm kinda fuzzy on the loss of rewards part, or else I wasn't paying much attention to Craig when he said all that. When in TWI, I believed that once you earned a reward it was yours forever. I believed that God doesn't retract them. You "walked on the word" for a certain period of time and space, therefore, this is the scorecard God kept and he is perfect love and truth. On the other hand, one's sinning makes one forfeit rewards. Not ones already earned but ones that could have been earned by walking faithfully on the word with TWI.

Born again believers.

You and George Carlin! I still laugh hysterically while listening to "Class Clown".

VPW wrote that in "Christians Should Be Prosperous" or as we've said disparagingly "Christians Believe the Preposterous". https://www.amazon.com/Christians-Should-Prosperous-Victor-Wierwille/dp/0910068658/ref=sr_1_1_so_ABIS_BOOK?crid=CN3UK5C7WKOH&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.jFnxUBdjkeazYzesIel6tw.gOBghEwUDzIzQki4iW1RzHbXO943zbOEsQjo5_TcUWI&dib_tag=se&keywords=christians+should+be+prosperous+victor+paul+wierwille&qid=1748866500&sprefix=christians+should+be+prosperous+victor+paul+wierwille%2Caps%2C86&sr=8-1

I get what you're saying. I ask myself why all these christian denominations? Perhaps because of man's ego ultimately? I remember when my friend (a humble young lady) encouraged me to take the RCIA class (the Rite of Christian Initiation for adults in the Roman Catholic Church) as sort of a 'beginning my journey back to the RC church', she told me in passing that she wished Luther had stayed in the RC church. I've been thinking about that for years and agree with that. As the story goes, he couldn't because he was very focused and dogmatic on what he perceived as RC errors in doctrine and practice that he believed cost people time, money and maybe even their own salvation. He could have stayed and ministered to his flock and encourage change privately and individually, and eat some crow in the process. Had he done that, I certainly do not think it would have cost him his eternal salvation. What do you think?

Interesting question. My first reaction was 'no' - but then I thought about how the Roman Catholic Church allowed the mass to be watered down around 1958 with Vatican 2. IMO the only real way to see this is to attend a traditional latin mass, then go to the new Novus Ordo mass... you will see what I mean. Imagine having a concept for hundreds of years then change it.. it's a topic that's quite debated in RC circles...

Agree! And lest we forgot... if one DID prosper while not tithing, it only meant that the Devil wanted you to... LOL

Yes... important to do the works of faith in the household... Galatians 6:10 style... thank you.

The first time I saw this performance I just freaked out, it's so good. Themes from "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly", and "Ecstasy of Gold".

Charity many thanks for posting Vince teaching... good to see him again. I believe he correctly offers the distinction between the old covenant vs. the new and some of the necessary actions of the new. I think he missed and could have offered insight on the sacrament of confession, without which one may not receive forgiveness, and without which one may lose salvation. Although I am very glad he threw away the TWI belief of eternal security: perhaps one of the most dangerous views we were exposed to in TWI. To presume God's promise of eternal life is guaranteed no matter whether we do the corresponding works or not, was perhaps the most deadly of TWI doctrines. Thanks again.

My recollection of what TWI taught is that anybody (including anyone in TWI) that performs Romans 10:9 is born again and is part of the Body of Christ forever. "Incorruptible Seed". Whether you're in fellowship with God or with TWI, or not, you are "heaven bound and no power from hell can stop you from going". And the only proof was SIT and without SIT you couldn't prove or REALLY SAY that you were. My recollection again: The "Household of God" was interpreted as being "in fellowship" with God and with TWI and in practice with all the principles. It also meant you were an active member in TWI fellowships. Did TWI teach that other christian groups were 'in fellowship with God'. I think that was kinda fuzzy to me. I thought that it depended on whether one was "standing on the Word" and of course the Word was only the TWI version. So yeah, I think the general thought was that TWI was the only "household".

OK, got it. And WordWolf, I fully agree with your assessment above relating to both TWI and RC.

The Roman Catholic Church, according to what I've learned from them in my return to them. And if they don't know, they'll tell you they don't know or it's a mystery. But they do take their magisterium seriously. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magisterium Agree that I don't think we need them to tell us what "Thou Shalt Not Steal" means in a general sense. However, when there's an issue that's questionable in your mind, it's highly recommended you consult a priest at least, to be covered. Presumption could be a grave sin. Something could be a grave sin that you'd think is harmless. I pray about this because there are areas of the doctrine that still are mysterious to me.

My first thought is how the Catholics interpret. First thought, there ARE contradictions. Many mysteries... and sometimes even illogical and unreasonable. Second, the scriptures are not and never were there for your own personal decision what it means... rather it must be interpreted by the Church. Tradition, the community of the saints, the Pope. etc.

AI does a decent job explaining it for the believer: What is the heavenly prize? Answer from AI: When we reach the end of our own race, our ultimate prize is Jesus. We'll have new citizenship in heaven with Him, we'll exchange our mortal bodies for bodies like His, and we'll spend the rest of eternity in His presence. Until that day, let's remove anything that hinders us from following Him.

JoyfulSoul, wish you would stay.