waysider

Drop the fruitcake, back away slowly and no one will get hurt.

SIT much!

Let's take a look at the credibility of the man who taught us about the manifestations. HERE

I think a lot of us, myself included, just assumed that Wierwille had some kind of inside track on understanding this stuff. He didn't. What he taught and promoted was nothing more than a hodge-podge of things he stole from other authors, sometimes whole chapters at a time. A special thanks goes out to John Juedes for THIS comparative look at RTHST.

Do tell.

Back when we used to have practice sessions, there were sometimes students who would question the Biblical veracity of what we were doing.(It was usually in an inquisitive vein rather than skepticism.) The answer would usually be along the lines of, "Well, "Dr." Wierwille thinks it's a good idea and he knows more about this stuff than we do."..... That was a big red flag waving in front of us and we chose to ignore it. By the way, everyone knows his "doctorate" was phony, don't they?

Think for a moment about the practice sessions (excellor sessions) we had. Not only do they not have Biblical basis, they just plain don't make sense. Why would we need to practice something that is supposed to be perfect already? If it's God that gives the utterance, why would we need to insist the words start with a specific letter or need to practice enunciation or strive for dramatic presentation? Why would we have to insist that the tongue portion be equal in length to the interpretation portion? I think the reason Wierwille insisted we never speak in tongues just to demonstrate it to outsiders was because he didn't want it to be scrutinized too closely.

Yes, they could do that but it would be in direct contradiction to Way dogma. During the time of my involvement, we were told NOT to help any charities. We were only to help local people if they were standing Way believers, preferably those at a leadership level.. Instead of giving to charitable causes, we were supposed to help people in need by selling them a seat in the PFAL class so *The Word* could help them. Remember, also, we were taught that God could not bless you unless you tithed (10%) and abundantly shared (over and above 10%). In fact Martindale is famous for saying that "God wouldn't even bother to spit in your direction" for anything less than 15%. It's quite a dilemma. If you leave, where do you give your money? I know when I left, I had apprehensions about what would happen because I no longer abundantly shared.

For me, it's always been a time when our whole family gets together. It's a time to enjoy each others' company, eat way too much food and indulge in some adult beverages. I don't assign any religious significance to it. Along the same lines, I don't usually say "Merry Christmas", I say "Happy Holidays". This isn't because I'm slighting Christmas, it's because I see the holidays as being more than just one day. I also find it helps to keep my expectations somewhat on the low side. That way there's no big let down when it's over.

I told my son, not long ago, "If you still have one friend left when you leave this earth, you've done pretty well.".... OK, maybe that's a bit extreme. I think you get the point, though. It gets harder and harder to make and maintain friendships as we age, due to all sorts of factors such as geography, politics, business commitments, family allegiances, attrition and on and on. Yes, seniors do get lonely and cherish friendships. That was the case with the twig I referenced. Too bad that's not what The Way was/is about. Instead of being happy for these people who had developed a social comradery, they pushed them aside in favor of a business model that was more suited to their purpose. It's built on a multi-level-marketing structure. Think of it this way, Axway doesn't really need people to discuss the virtues of their soap with each other. What they need is people who will actively strive to bolster the structure of the organization....they need people to sell dealerships, not soap. The Way pitched all sorts of pie-in-the sky ideas from time to time...things like this senior community, a family campground time share, a Bible themed amusement park and more that escape my memory at the moment. They were all aimed at one thing, putting your money in their pocket. People on the outside have found ways to build relationships that are loosely based on their Way experiences. If that makes them happy, so be it. Only time will tell what becomes of the ones who hang on at the corporate level.

And what? Do I have a solution? I'm not sure there is a solution. I can't ask the people I referenced because they are all deceased. As a senior citizen, myself, now, I can only speak for myself. I prefer to have nothing more to do with the organization. It's just that simple.

People are commodities at The Way. When you've outlived your usefulness, your days are numbered. There's an abundance of historical evidence to that effect.

I don't think I'd call him a master but he was highly skilled and had a bundle of determination. I think it all sort of snowballed on him and he got to a point where it was all or nothing.

Mr. B If you read between the lines of my post I think the answers will become apparent.

As always, good to hear from you, Seth.

In the late 1970's, I knew of a twig that was comprised entirely of seniors. Most of them had kids that were involved with W.O.W., Way Corps, FellowLaborers and so forth. They met often and enjoyed the social aspect of being able to fraternize with people their own age. Being reliant on retirement incomes, you can well imagine their weekly financial sheets were often a disappointment to "the powers that be" at HQ. But, although they did not abundantly share, they did take up love offerings and give freely of their time and labor to local believers who were in need. They did not go out witnessing as it was too foreign to the lifestyles they lived. Word came down from Int. HQ that they would either have to disband or stop citing their association with The Way. The reason given was that there was not enough diversity in the group. So, they officially disbanded as a twig. It was heartbreaking to witness. For quite some time thereafter, they continued to get together for lunches, birthdays and other social events. They enjoyed each others' company but it was never the same as it had been when they were a twig. It is now and always was a scam at its very core. Lots of people had some good times that they will always remember and cherish but that's really a peripheral effect that wasn't part of the master plan. Time will tell what becomes of the current crop of seniors. edit: To the naysayers I feel I must clarify that this is first hand testimony, not something that was passed on to me second hand.

"Maybe they need to prove the nay-sayers wrong?" This seems to drive the resurgence of dedication I have seen lately on youtube and facebook. Although, with the health care and beauty product MLM's, most people do eventually accept that they were duped.

I wonder if anyone has had any luck using Wierwille's Magic Elixir (PFAL research techniques) to resolve the discrepancies in Genesis. PS. I think Adam and Eve may have had red drapes. Oh, not just any red drapes...FIRE ENGINE RED drapes!

What is the abundant life? For the sake of consistency, suppose we define it as a life that meets the criteria listed on "The Green Card". If we think of PFAL as a product, like skin cream or weight loss pills, it should deliver the promised results to be considered effective. Pick a promise, any promise. Did it materialize? Yeah, I don't think so.

A bit of background: I was on another site (reddit) and stumbled on a thread about people who had become involved with various MLM schemes. (Anyone who has given serous thought to it recognizes we, too, were victims of an MLM scheme. We were their customers.) A common element I saw in many of the posts was that of the product not working as promised and/or the participants not even using the product their MLM was built around. So, did anyone actually have any level of success using this product called Power For Abundant Living to achieve the promised (Green Card) results? Why did we keep pitching a product that was obviously flawed? PS. I find people are generally more receptive to a discussion of how I was involved in an MLM scheme than they are to hearing about a religious cult experience. :wink2:/>/>

One of the key points of consideration (for me, at least) is that genuine languages have definable structure. Stringing together an array of valid English words or German words or Polish words or Angelic Language words does not automatically constitute a language. Real languages follow definable conventions. They have verbs, nouns, modifiers arranged in a logical and prescribed manner. I shudder to think that some of us here are even old enough to remember when we were taught, in English class, how to diagram sentences to give visual meaning to the structure. So, someone's "tongue" may well have words that are genuine and can be understood but, does the whole message have structure? This is critical to understanding how glossolalia works. A person's tongue will generally seem to follow conventions of the language that is native to them. For most of us on this forum, that would be English. On closer examination, however, it can be seen that this is somewhat of an illusion, for lack of a better word. Take a sizable sampling of someone's tongue and try to diagram it. What you will find is that the same syllables and sounds are uttered repetitively and lack a genuine structure even though the speaker may have the ability to dress it up to sound like a language. That's exactly what we were taught to do in the Tongues With Interpretations and Prophesy (Intermediate) Class. We called these training events excellor sessions.

"Unfortunately, our interpreter overslept this morning."

I faked it. I didn't mean to fake it or even realize it at the time. That doesn't make me a liar. It just makes me someone who faked it.