waysider

I never saw any hearts...black OR white. Same thing with ministering. Put your hand on their shoulder and.....nuttin' Oh, wait, my leg hurts. Yeah, that's it. "God, thank you for healing their Polio, right now...." Uh Huh.

Oh, my!

I don't remember where I heard it but it must have been before it was detailed in the book because I remember going to the county fair in the early 1970s and trying to do the same thing to some Bha'i's who had a booth there. We also tried to see if they had black or white hearts.

If I remember correctly, Wierwille said something to the effect that they stood outside the fortune teller's tent all day and prayed/believed for her to leave. Sure enough, she eventually packed up and left. It's a good thing she did, too. It's a known fact that business drops off drastically after closing time.

That's because you've discovered its true usefulness. (snicker)

Skyrider's response was referencing Wierwille's resignation being accepted by unanimous vote of the Consistory.

I'm not certain but I think that may be from Victor Paul Wierwille: Born Again To Serve by Dorothea Kipp Wierwille HERE

Anticipation My father sits at night with no lights on, his cigarette glows in the dark.

I think we're all kind of saying the same thing. One of the main techniques they brought in from the Dale Carnegie class is to listen to what people are telling you and use that to identify their "needs". Then, show them how the class can "meet" those particular needs. So, yeah, in that sense, they are searching for your vulnerabilities so they can target them correctly, using the appropriate bait. They recognize that everyone (as Twinky said) has vulnerabilities.

From the W&U syllabus "The basic reason we witness is to help people into the classes on Power For Abundant Living......" "We should witness every chance we get." "I suggest you read How To Win Friends and Influence People..." "Every person and every situation will be different." ------------------------- So, it's like fishing on a lake you're unfamiliar with. You troll from the boat to see if there is any chance of activity. If not, you move the boat, change the bait and adjust your other variables, such as hook size, depth, etc. --------------------------------------------------- "Some people's reasoning and beliefs are based on: Emotion, feelings, experience, and social conformity, not logical truth." ---------------------------------------------------- "If you've got their attention, begin undershepherding....or....excuse yourself." -------------------------------------------------- So there you have it. They troll for anything that ventures to give a nibble. They adjust their methods to whatever kind of "fish" happens to be biting on a particular day. --------------------------------- I just don't think you can allow yourself to think it's your fault they reeled you in.

There were some good people, some good experiences, some good things that were taught. By and large, though, the whole thing was really a big sham.

Looking back at my own experiences, I think it's pretty hard to predict who'll be drawn into a cult. All sorts of people got sucked into the Way vortex, from hippies to blue collar workers to people with advanced academic degrees. Who a cult will target and why is a whole different matter.

Home Is Where The Heart Is

Jai Guru deva Om (Praise to the Teacher)

Something that I think has escaped us on this thread is the way VPP defined fornication, adultery, etc. According to VPP, only the spiritually underdeveloped still think these are terms relating to the physical realm. Nope, these are spiritual terms. In fact, in the Advanced Class, he even said there was a spirit called the spirit of whoredom that plays a role in people committing "spiritual adultery and fornication". Silly us, thinking adultery was some sort of function involving the human body. Sheesh!

"the problem I have with the religion is.. when things go "wrong" so to speak, out come the excuses. Idiom of permission, various euphemisms." Bingo! Can't find an explanation for God's actions in Job? No problem, we'll just invent one. Maybe call it the idiom of permission or something. Man's mind works in such a way that it doesn't fancy entertaining unresolvable problems for long periods of time, especially problems that are counter-purpose to previously held beliefs. ..Enter cognitive dissonance.

That video needs as a soundtrack.

Think about Aesop's Fables for a moment...The Tortoise and the Hare, The Ant and the Grasshopper, The Fox and the Grapes...We know that tortoises don't race hares, ants don't talk to grasshoppers and foxes don't operate logical thought. Still, we have no problem accepting that these fables contain valuable lessons. But, when it comes to the Bible, there is a school of thought that says it has to be factual to have any value. I don't know what Job's intended message is. What I do know is that if you get too bogged down with whether or not it was a real, historical incident, you will probably miss the point, just as worrying about whether ants can talk to grasshoppers will distract you from the message of that story.

I don't remember what class it was taught in but the basis for this is II Corinthians 11:4. (It was used out of context and grossly misinterpreted.)

Yeah. We must be REALLY moving da werd. The old bird is even attacking our cars so we won't be able to get the "babes" to the class.

What's that you say? You have no way to get to the abundance class? Not a problem. I'll stop by and pick you up. I'll be driving this: .

When you were a kid, did you ever try to rationalize the existence of Santa Claus? Oh, he must be real. Who else, besides my parents, knew I wanted those Engineer Boots? Same thing. We wanted some of this stuff, like the idiom of permission, to be real so we found ways to "explain" it.

In retrospect, the irony is almost comical. You come to a class that promises to unlock the secrets of abundance and what do you witness? The people running the class are reusing disposable cups, brewing yesterday's coffee grounds and stringing chairs that were donated because they couldn't afford to provide their own. It's like going to a musical recital and discovering the performers have yet to take their first lesson.