waysider

You know you're in a cult when you start looking for ways to justify that what you're in is not a cult.

I fear you may be right.

The second wave of a tsunami: That's the one that drags you away from the safety of solid ground and sucks the life out of you.

Please don't wake me up too late.....

Except that we worked without commission.

A well executed relevé can lift you closer to God.

A large percentage of Biblical scholars are of the opinion that I Timothy, II Timothy and Titus were authored by someone other than Paul. Paul is thought to have died in about 65 CE. These books appear to have been written about 35 years later.

Maybe some of those subscribers are just curious onlookers. You know, like rubberneckers at a bad freeway wreck.

I'm thinking it was BG Leonard, but it's been too long to remember for sure. I know we covered it here, years ago, on some now forgotten thread.

Sorry for the incorrect link. You summed up, quite nicely, the point I was trying to make. Twinky, It's important because Wierwille used what Pillai was purporting in order to give a sense of credibility to his own claims. That gave us a false sense of confidence. It made us feel like we could trust this guy (VPW) to help us fill a perceived void in our lives.

The AC syllabus lists, on page 20, Isaiah 27:1 and Matthew 12:43 as references to Leviathan being the spirit causing alcoholism. If you can figure out how Leviathan is connected to alcoholism, you're one up on me.

I don't personally put a lot of stock in anything Pillai wrote about oriental customs. He was legitimately credentialed in statistics and mathematics, but his expertise in ancient oriental customs seems to be self-appointed. In fact, there exists a thread on GSC that took a critical look at some of his pronouncements on oriental customs. The findings were less than favorable.

I never heard anything about physiological changes occurring when I was involved. What was being taught was that access was facilitated by fellowship status and could fluctuate. It was referred to as a "trap door" and your fellowship status determined whether or not the trap door was open. The seed term was used to suggest a person had been born again of the seed of the devil. This is what was taught to be irreversible. Sorry if this seems off-topic, but if we are drawing parallels between cult recovery and alcoholism recovery, it seems inevitable that tangent discussion will pop up.

I read the link. I'm not sure I see the connection between Hobbes and what he's trying to say unless he's trying to convey a similarity in the centralization of absolute power. "Read it while you can. The adversary is trying hard to take down this 30 year old website." No fears. I've committed the entirety of it to floppy.

That's why I said "As per" and "supposedly".

As per the Advanced Class, it supposedly causes an insatiable thirst in those it possesses.

Yes, This, as well as the revelation manifestation definitions, is a cut and paste from another source that I don't recall at the moment. It's been documented here for anyone so inclined to investigate.

There's supposed to be reasoning?

There is a page in the Advanced Class syllabus that lists specific devil spirits that are responsible for various conditions. The spirit of Leviathan is listed as the spirit responsible for alcoholism. So, this is where it gets really messy. Wierwille was the epitome of several of the spirits listed on that page. It presents a grave dilemma. 1. Were we following a man who was possessed? 2. Why didn't anyone get revelation of this via Discerning of Spirits? 3. Was he simply wrong about this subject ? If he was wrong about this, he could have been wrong about anything and everything, hence the dilemma. Please note: I attacked the methodology, not the man.

Can't argue with that.

You tell me. Did he?

Yes and no. What we describe as being blue is found between about 450-485 nm on the visible portion of the EM spectrum . It has always existed there. It's a matter of acquired perception. That's where indoctrination enters the discussion. On a side note: If BB King had lived in ancient times, would he have sung "How Grey Can You Get?"?

One of the key elements of AA is to have attendees meet frequently to reinforce a certain mindset. Why does that sound familiar?

It diminishes their sense of self-worth to consider they might be wrong.