Allan

25 minutes ago, waysider said:

It's rare for kids to die from Covid. It can and does happen, though.

HERE is an example.

Most (but not all) the kids in the article had other health problems, such as obesity, which is a major problem here in the U.S.A.

But, suppose for a moment that kids really don't die from Covid. (They do, of course.)

Kids that are in otherwise good health can develop MIS-C (multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children.) Internal organs can be permanently damaged. Even the brain can become damaged. They might have to live with disabilities the rest of their lives. If that's not enough, what happens if they bring it home to Grandma and Grandpa or old Mr. Johnson, who lives in that big blue, rundown house on the corner? Who'll feed all those cats if he catches it and dies? Well, it won't be me. I can tell you that.

 

Incidentally, that century-old mandate mentioned earlier is Jacobson v. Massachusetts (1905).
 

Im glad you noted that most that died had underlying health issues including obesity...it's when you add the "but, suppose for a moment that's kids really don't die from covid (they do of course) that, to me invalidates what you're attempting to embellish. You JUST SAID THEY HAD OTHER HEALTH ISSUES....

WW - 'virtually no-one' 16 or under gets seriously ill or dies from covid is what I said NOT 'absolutely no-one' and what you subsequently posted per link backs that up ! You then went on to post that " the few news readers that gave lip service to covid being a gray area were the first to rush out and get vaxxed."
Joe Rogan is one that didn't that springs to mind so did you mean virtually all or absolutely all of the few ??:)

Modcat- "spreading dangerous information here regarding covid"....are you implying people on this forum are brainless or simpletons ?? or are you under the impression this forum is broadcast around the world ?? lol

2 hours ago, modcat5 said:

Research that had nothing to do with the development of COVID or its spread.
 

STOP USING GSC TO SPREAD COVID MISINFORMATION: First and last warning.

Gain of function had nothing to do with covid ?? Your comment beggars belief...go ahead ban me, you obviously don't like someone pushing back...as for WW (unless you're both and the same) semantics.....under 16's dying from covid versus seriously ill....I can post plenty of reports showing HEALTHY teenagers in 99.999% of cases are asymptomatic or mildly affected at worst...so go ahead ban me, it'll just prove my point about 'fair speech and dialogue' on here.

58 minutes ago, modcat5 said:

Research that had nothing to do with the development of COVID or its spread.
 

STOP USING GSC TO SPREAD COVID MISINFORMATION: First and last warning.

I was replying to Waysiders post that what I posted was FALSE...I refuted that with FACTUAL ARTICLES...so you're saying those articles and statistics are WRONG ?...You're labelling it FALSE INFORMATION ? Well I guess you know more than the Vanity Fair journalist and the Australian Bureau of Statistics ! Or are you as moderator now determining what is true/false, correct/incorrect ?

4 hours ago, waysider said:

Both these statements are false.

 

Also, statisticians use something called "increase in mortality" rates to gauge deaths. In other words, if, for example, your town typically experiences 10,000 deaths per year and suddenly experiences 13,000 deaths per year, they start to look at reasons for the increase. This is how they were able to come up with estimates of the death toll for the 1918 flu deaths. This takes time, so we won't know for quite some time what the real death toll has been. There are other methods they use, as well, but it's not as straightforward as it might seem.

• Australia: number of COVID-19 deaths by age and gender 2021 | Statista

so here are two reports showing that what I have said IS fact. What may I ask did you base your reply to me on ? Or was it the general 'knee jerk reaction' of those who have succumbed to mainstream media madness ?

4 hours ago, waysider said:

Both these statements are false.

 

Also, statisticians use something called "increase in mortality" rates to gauge deaths. In other words, if, for example, your town typically experiences 10,000 deaths per year and suddenly experiences 13,000 deaths per year, they start to look at reasons for the increase. This is how they were able to come up with estimates of the death toll for the 1918 flu deaths. This takes time, so we won't know for quite some time what the real death toll has been. There are other methods they use, as well, but it's not as straightforward as it might seem.

In Major Shift, NIH Admits Funding Risky Virus Research in Wuhan | Vanity Fair

8 hours ago, Twinky said:

Please don't be one of them, Allan.

Oh I wont ! I've had it twice anyhoo !

47 minutes ago, Twinky said:

I did not say that, Allan.  I said, deaths for any reason within 28 days of a positive covid test. 

There are  other deaths outside 28 days that can be attributed to covid, where someone has been hospitalised / in ICU for a while.

And I invited you to look at the correlation between vaccination (rising fast) and deaths (falling fast).  It's plain for anyone to see that there's a huge reduction in the number of deaths, hospitalisations etc, in the vaccinated cohort. 

All medical staff will tell you that the hospitalised ones in the most serious condition are UNvaccinated.  ICU is stuffed with naysayers.  It's accepted that some vaxed people, those with particular susceptibilities, may get covid but not as severely.

Here in Australia, the state of Victoria had 25 deaths from covid in one day. The state Premier was hard pressed by a journalist to divulge of the 25, how many were vaccinated...He refused to answer. He is the type of person that if none of them had been vaccinated he would have been shouting it from the roof tops....as someone said "I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I'm a things aren't adding up the way they should theorist" :)

1 hour ago, Rocky said:

From a public health perspective, we ALL have the right and duty to encourage friends and family to get the covid 19 vax. 

History makes it very clear it's the right thing to do. 

Are you sure ??        Facebook

1 hour ago, Rocky said:

Reagan said, "Trust, but verify."

1 hour ago, Rocky said:

From a public health perspective, we ALL have the right and duty to encourage friends and family to get the covid 19 vax. 

History makes it very clear it's the right thing to do. 

Key word being 'encourage'....not 'mandate' right ?

10 minutes ago, socks said:

My wif' and I both have gotten the Moderna Vax, both doses. No real side effects, kind of a hit of floozy feelings for a few hours after the second one, but that was it. We both got the Booster for it, same thing, no biggie. 

I get flu shots every year for years now, I've always been pretty susceptible to colds and flu and those vaccinations helped a lot since I started. I had a serious round of Pneumonia in the 90's, I got within 48 hours of making hand puppets with Jim Hanson, I waited so long to drag my foot into Emergency. I've been careful since. 

All of those things aren't the same kinds of things but in my lifestyle they're related and connected, so I treat them seriously as part of the same health concerns. For years I've used a disinfectant when I go in and out of public shopping stores, the big box ones, "Wal Mart", all those. I'm careful about sneezing into a kleenex and avoiding people when they're snorting and sneezing all over the place in public, using doors, handles, knobs, picking thing up in public places, etc. It's all gross, seeing how many people treat personal hygiene. So I was in this whole clean thing long before this virus stuff started and frankly I don't mind the world being a little cleaner out there. 

People that want to tell me I don' need to do that, don't get vaxed, I shouldn't do that, am wrong for doing that, can - how does it go in the original greek...? they can get fukked. Seriously, if I had a buck for every self proclaimed expert telling me what to do I'd have a barrel of bucks. I have no lack of expert sure fire opinion either way I want to go. 

I've read up on what's going on as much as I feel the need to, I see the different sides to the issues, blah blah blah. I prefer to treat all of this as an individual's choice. That's how I treat it. I don't have all the answers and I don't expect others to either. I'm not going to hate someone because they don't want to get a vaccine or because they get one or because they're not sure. If I can help with my own incredibly insightful expert opinion I'd suggest - see a doctor, make sure of any exceptional conditions you might have that would make a difference and then go with the best you know and sure, get vaccinated. But if you don't, that's fine too, in my world.

I know that's not how the government is handling it across the country and it sucks and is difficult for everyone whether we're for this or against that or whatever. But I try to take the high road as much as possible and do what I can to help others with what they need and this is the best I know to do now. 

PEACE! 

 

 

 

I agree, no-one should be telling you to NOT get  vaxxed...just wish people would reciprocate and NOT tell others they SHOULD get vaxxed !! I think that's pretty reasonable doncha thunk ??...and don't hit me with that "it's your moral duty so you don't give it to others" FFS if they've been vaccinated they're PROTECTED right ??!! And vaccinated still shed virus too don't they.....and let's not split hairs over how many micromils of virus vaccinated vs non-vaccinated shed :)

Just now, Allan said:

All good, I just wanted to see if I could get Rocky to cuss bahahaha...on a serious note though...I'm still VERY sceptical...for a plethora of reasons ! Firstly the NIH has flip flopped on a number of statements, i.e. mask wearing not helpful, then next minute it is. Then it isn't. Is this the same NIH btw that has finally admitted they WERE funding 'gain of function' at Wuhan ?? Also, virtually NO cases of healthy kids under 16 dying or even getting seriously ill from Covid....now after much urging from the drug companies they are going to 'immunize' (closed colons intended) 5 year olds and over....hello, now they're pushing for babies...I smell $$$$...as Dan Bongino says "follow the money trail" !!
Covid deaths, as Twinky mentioned, are way over inflated. At least the authorities have been honest enough to admit that if someone has Covid antibodies when they are killed in a car crash or falling off a ladder or (more likely) shot by someone in New York whilst eating a Big Mac IT IS LISTED AS A COVID DEATH.
I really am surprised how many GS'ers have such healthy scepticism for anything called church/fellowship yet sprint towards something the Government is saying is good and right for you ??!! Wasn't it Ronald Reagan that famously said " There are nine words coming out of a bureaucrats mouth that ought to send chills up your spine.... I'm from the government and I'm here to help"

Sorry, I meant Raf !!

9 hours ago, Raf said:

Oh FFS, seriously?

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/effectiveness-research/protocols.html

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/is-the-covid19-vaccine-safe

 

The vaccine saves lives.

Vaccine cynicism costs lives.

"I got god-given natural immunity" costs lives.

All good, I just wanted to see if I could get Rocky to cuss bahahaha...on a serious note though...I'm still VERY sceptical...for a plethora of reasons ! Firstly the NIH has flip flopped on a number of statements, i.e. mask wearing not helpful, then next minute it is. Then it isn't. Is this the same NIH btw that has finally admitted they WERE funding 'gain of function' at Wuhan ?? Also, virtually NO cases of healthy kids under 16 dying or even getting seriously ill from Covid....now after much urging from the drug companies they are going to 'immunize' (closed colons intended) 5 year olds and over....hello, now they're pushing for babies...I smell $$$$...as Dan Bongino says "follow the money trail" !!
Covid deaths, as Twinky mentioned, are way over inflated. At least the authorities have been honest enough to admit that if someone has Covid antibodies when they are killed in a car crash or falling off a ladder or (more likely) shot by someone in New York whilst eating a Big Mac IT IS LISTED AS A COVID DEATH.
I really am surprised how many GS'ers have such healthy scepticism for anything called church/fellowship yet sprint towards something the Government is saying is good and right for you ??!! Wasn't it Ronald Reagan that famously said " There are nine words coming out of a bureaucrats mouth that ought to send chills up your spine.... I'm from the government and I'm here to help"

On 11/2/2021 at 8:23 AM, Rocky said:

For perspective: FLU shots. 

In retrospect: speculation about share prices is meaningless.

Bottom line: the covid-19 vaccines save lives. 

Do you have any articles supporting that claim ? 

Again, what is information and/or disinformation ?? Is it in the eye of the beholder ? Does it take more than merely reading the headlines ? Latest medical advice is that the covid shots immunity only lasts 3-6 months....that's why they're rolling out the 'booster' shots....how long do they last ? Again, medical advice is their effectiveness wanes after around 4-6 months. Has anyone wondered aloud how long are people going to keep lining up for booster shots ? A year ? 2 ? 10 ? the rest of your natural life ? Will they introduce billing for it at some point ? I think big pharma shares would be the way to go at this rate, yeah ? lol...

 

Heya Ham ! Im in Australia and in my late '50's..hear ya about the body starting to get the odd niggles and creaks lol. I've just thrown in my job and about to start a 'not for profit' establishing a home for young and older men and women who may have mental or physical challenges (or both) and who may be living with ageing parents who worry about what will happen to them once the parents pass away. Something that I really, truly believe God has put big time on my heart. I know it will be a huge challenge but IF it really was God, I'm convinced He's got it ! I guess it's also my shot at leaving behind some type of noble legacy in my lifetime.

On 10/1/2021 at 1:00 AM, Raf said:

The video demonstrates that John really did preach against masks, vaccines and social distancing. Assuming COVID did indeed contribute to his death, that would probably fall under irony. If I am going to be consistent, I have to say it's fair game for discussion.

This is tricky, because for whatever reason, COVID has intersected with politics. We can't discuss one without discussing the other, and here at GSC we avoid political discussions.

So how do we do it?

JAL used his platform to spread misinformation. I'm sorry if that offends your politics, but it is reality. Masks work. Social distancing works. Vaccines work. John didn't believe that, and the disease killed him.

I will consult with the other moderators about the extent to which we will permit GSC to be used to spread medical misinformation. In the past, we've debated such issues to the point of exhaustion. But this is not the same as a discussion over the health benefits of superoxygenated water, which is harmless. Misinformation about COVID kills people.

Until the moderators reach a decision, comments on this thread will be approved before posting. 

After review, we're going to leave this thread up and allow people to discuss  any aspect of JAL's legacy. This is not merely a memorial page. There is one that was set up in the proper forum. This thread will be renamed to reflect its "open" intent.

And I guess (as a journalist) you believe in a persons right to disagree with your opinion yeah ?
I disagree that masks work. In fact the latest stats to come out of your country are that a school district (can't remember where, if I have to I'll look it up) showed virtually no differnce in transmission rates between masked and unmasked pupils. As for John Lynn, he died WITH covid, not BECAUSE of. It's called 'comorbidity' which is what the ONE percent of people who catch the 'rona die of, apart from the very elderly. In fact 99% of the elderly who die from/with corona have already lived PAST the average life span. Also, no argument vaccines DO work, it just appears the corona vaccine (like the flu shots) with their effectiveness waning after three months are not very effective. That is why the fear of the 'unvaccinated' from the 'vaccinated' is very palpable...just saying.

1 hour ago, Rocky said:

Allan, THIS is a complete derailing of the thread away from the accepted topic of comment on publicly criticizing (or not) a person shortly after the person's passing.

Are you seriously not interested at all in the thread topic?

WW, I'm not embarrased at all...Rockys the one who should be embarrassed for making the statement "there have been no deaths and side effects are minor after being vaccinated for covid"
As for yourself brushing them off as some type of 'collateral damage'...shame on you !!

1 hour ago, Allan said:

Are you serious ?? Nobodies been killed by the vaccine ?? 
RACGP - Two more AstraZeneca-linked deaths in past week: TGA

And the side effects are minimal ?? I beg to differ....

Finland pauses use of Moderna COVID-19 vaccine in young people (msn.com)

On 10/4/2021 at 7:19 PM, Twinky said:

A genuine expression of my faith is to get vaxxed and where necessary wear a mask.  Because it shows respect for, and protects, other people.  An in part because I work with a lot of very elderly people.  I don't want to be responsible for anything nasty for them.

Right now, I have a heavy cold. Only a cold.  Defo not covid; I tested.  But when I went to church yesterday, I wore a mask.  To protect others.  It was either that, or not go at all.

Is having respect for others really so hard for some people?  Where, then, is one's "faith"?

A genui !ne reflection of MY faith is that because the original vaccines were developed using aborted foetal tissue I will not be getting jabbed

On 10/5/2021 at 5:57 AM, Rocky said:

Obviously, data in the public sphere has demonstrated that the vaccine has, at worst, mild side-effects. Nobody has been killed by the vaccine.

OTOH, people WE KNOW have been killed by the virus, in increasing numbers of cases those deaths are preventable when people heed sound public health and safety guidance. It's overwhelmingly sad, but true that the only threat to freedom in the pandemic has been death itself.

Are you serious ?? Nobodies been killed by the vaccine ?? 
RACGP - Two more AstraZeneca-linked deaths in past week: TGA

18 hours ago, Rocky said:

That, I don't think, was the discussion subject.

I know Rocky, I'm just tired of this whole "you're a crackpot because you disagree with me or the Biden admin or Fauci or the CDC or MSNBC or what SOME of the scientists say" ...It's a 'virus' in itself, the whole 'cancel culture' 'woke' think brigade...throwing out inuendos against dissenting positions because it's important to feel one is right !! 

22 hours ago, WordWolf said:

Ah, but a DIFFERENT thread is a memorial.

A) He said masks are useless against COVID.  That's false.  That was known `100 years ago with the "Spanish Flu" and it's true now as well.  He said all the authorities speaking up were wrong and that if you listened to the "right sources", you'd know that. No mention of WHO those right sources were, can't fact-check if he's correct, of course.  At that level, he's floating a rumor.

 

If this post ends up getting chopped up by staff, I'm sorry. I tried to stick to the medical facts and as clear of politics as I could manage. 

Allan says :There is often 'two sides' to a debate and I'll admit, it's getting harder and harder to elicit, ascertain truth from 'mainstream media'....I and many others I know choose NOT to wear a mask, believing it's better to exhale viral loads than breathe them into a mask and re-ingest it again !! There has really only been ONE unbiased study into mask wearing benefits/non-benefits and that was the Danmask-19 study trial. The results were inconclusive...of test subjects wearing masks 47% still contracted Corona. Of the test subjects NOT wearing masks, 53%...make up your own mind but don't damn well 'mandate' mine for me !!

link supplied   The curious case of the Danish mask study | The BMJ

3 hours ago, Raf said:

Let's do this:

Since we do not have direct evidence that John avoided masks or the vaccine, and we don't have evidence of why, let's avoid the topic.

BUT

If he died of lung cancer and continued smoking while preaching about how smoking has never been linked to cancer except by anti-freedom junk scientists, we would mention it and it would not be controversial. You would be offended if I tried to stop the discussion.

So the topic is not off limits. But evidence, please, or let's just not go there.

Some people are turning every possible subject into politics. Let's not. 

We'll make mistakes as we try to navigate this, but let's start with something we can agree on: no hearsay. If you didn't hear him say it, or have it on "tape," leave it off GSC.

 

Have to agree with that. Besides/otherwise we could embark into a whole debate about whether masks etc...really work.

On 9/11/2021 at 12:48 PM, penguin2 said:

Well, I guess they will have to do something now since they employ more than 100 people.  

Did you mean they employ over a hundred people or people who are over a hundred ?