potato

there really needs to be another category definition for "all" when it comes to twi. "all" (the literal translation according to twi usage": All the resources of the way international except what we have in investments, property and in our sock drawers, primarily intended to benefit people in the organization according to a strict hierarchical distribution that we'll call "need", with greater "need" being found for those at the top of the hierarchy and lesser, and at times even what could be considered a "negative" need (on a scale that includes numbers less than zero) in those found at the bottom of the hierarchy. everything outside of these necessary investments, property, sock drawer stashes and general distributions to "need" are included in "all the resources of the way" when used in the context of investing in the preparation of the future leaders of our cult. so, basically, "all with a great number of exceptions resulting in a sum close to zero".

I remember seeing some of those old tapes. no copyright notice. that means legally twi doesn't own the recordings and can only own and control the physical copies (i.e. the cassette, reel, or digital file) and cannot prevent anyone from copying and distributing the recordings however and to whomever they want. I remember some legal wrangling over the class tapes because twi claimed they owned the classes and no one else could. however, if someone had a set in their possession and twi could not produce a contract proving ownership, legally they'd be SOL. the person with the class tapes couldn't legally copy and distribute until copyright ran out (which it may actually have on some of the early classes) but twi can't claim perpetual ownership of a physical copy, either.

partly right. anything published before 1976 without registration and notice wasn't, isn't and can never be copyrighted. it was assumed to be placed in the public domain, and there were no oopsies-take-backs on copyright claims. some of what twi put on tape is simply not protected by copyright law, never was, and never can be. they eventually started complying with copyright notice requirements, and these days any work published is assumed copyrighted unless rights are explicitly voided.

you aren't alone. I have Aspergers and so does my teen son. the first 5 years of his life he was whacked by a spoon for every infraction in spite of the fact that he was a VERY GOOD BOY! my ex, his dad, also flicked him hard on the ear, starting at around age 2, whenever he would cry. we're still undoing the damage... er, make that I'm still undoing the damage. my ex is out but not really into parenting. hey, a fellow spectrumite! I wonder at times if twi initially attracted me because it was supposed to be formulaic and there were supposed to be rules for social engagement that I thought would finally make sense of this confusing world. turns out it just made things really bad and even more confusing because it completely blurred right and wrong from a realistic point of view. took a while to figure out how people do things outside of a cult, then once I found out I have Aspergers it wasn't too hard to accept I'm just not going to get some people and I'm going to take a lot of things literally that weren't meant to be and I'm going to inadvertently offend some people by being too blunt. but then, there are worse things than being literal, concrete, and honest, that's for sure.

QFT:

OldSkool, I am so excited for you!!! I think the self-loathing part of you that you wake up with is (and pardon if I sound bit Jungian) is a part of you that is still splintered off that needs to be reintegrated. we split so many parts of ourselves off and put them in boxes in dark closets in our minds in order to survive in twi. we're so used to them being there that we can't see them in our conscious mind, so they come out at night and infuse our dreams with symbols. self-doubt, while outwardly spoken against in twi, was actually programmed into us so that we doubted our every decision unless it was rubber-stamped by twi leaders. at the expense of sounding very crazy, might I suggest that maybe you need to have a little talk with that part of yourself that is being so loud. maybe it's a part of yourself left over from twi that is still in a box and wants to be heard and reassured. a few times when finding those shadow selves, or splinters of myself I'd pushed away, all I had to do was mentally acknowledge that I was ignoring part of myself and I needed to pay attention, absorb, reconnect, whatever. so there's a deep-rooted part of yourself that could not thrive in twi. it's an emotional part that was broken off a long time ago and it's never had to deal with this before and it needs reassurance. twi taught us to ignore our many mental facets by teaching us that they're devil spirits, so we fight them. I think twi had it so wrong that we ended up damaging ourselves by breaking ourselves in pieces.

in that context your comment makes more sense. OldSkool pointed out earlier in the thread that the bible didn't cost anything. the general point here is that that catch phrase that vpw and lcm so freely used is Wayspeak. it's a statement designed to trigger guilt and extract more money and time from twi followers no matter what the personal price they end up paying. the fact that they asked the question at all proves they were looking at the wrong thing, you are very right about that. I think it also set up an atmosphere of competitiveness in the "household" to be more spiritual by giving more. most of us did it because we wanted to do the right thing, but some people did it for the appearance. my ex was one of those. he wanted to give the ultimate and go corps, he insisted on giving 15% minimum in ABS, but he couldn't live the most basic biblical principles at home. the word, the real word, shouldn't have cost anything. when I said the word cost some of us a great deal and I'm still paying, a lot of people are still paying, and for some of us it cost everything, my context was the intent infused in the Wayspeak phrase "what has the word cost you?"

it really surprised me when I heard about all the treasures vpw kept. it reminded me of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh.

thank you excie. you're a wonderful amazing person as well. but really if I saw him on a harley I'd have to knock him off of it. it would be an insult to the harley to let him ride it. I really think he was dragged in behind a trash truck.

right. not selling PFAL hard enough, and what frank said: basically, vpw and lcm insulted us to the very core by telling us we weren't really good enough to sell their snake oil, and that unless we gave it all up we were pathetic losers who didn't care. I guess I took frank's post literally, because it struck me in hindsight that we paid very dearly for that snake oil. for some of us, it literally cost everything.

"the word" as we were so many times told, was the ministry and the ministry was the word. if it was simple as what's my walk with God cost, then nothing, of course (although I'm still a spiritual agnostic). if it was really about the Word of God, then none of us would be here and there wouldn't have been a purpose for GSC. OldSkool, TrustAndObey your encouragement is appreciated. it's easier to deal with life's lows without the fear of twi goons dissecting my life. I can analyze my mistakes all day long without their help (read: condemnation) but then I wouldn't get anywhere new, so yay for being out of twi!

I'm still paying for my life in twi. therapy costs for me and kids are ongoing because my ex's bullying was so reinforced by cult life that we're still fighting his toxic belief that he's the head and whatever he wants should be the way it is regardless of how anyone else feels, and I divorced him years ago. I back-burnered my talents and career to focus on his. then I worked two jobs while in twi so he could change careers. now I can't work because of PTSD and taking care of my special needs kid while ex has virtually no responsibilities and believes he should have none because I wanted the divorce. at the time I divorced him, I was afraid to ask for what was rightfully mine because of twi doctrine that the person who walks away shouldn't get squat and fear that twi would help my ex take my kids, even after his assault and battery of me and my child. thing is, if it wasn't for twi, I would have divorced him six months into the marriage when his narcissism first became a problem, instead of sticking around for so many years because PFAL would fix our "marriage" if I was just submissive enough. if it wasn't for twi, I would not have worked so hard to erase my independence and individuality that they said was the problem in our marriage. I would not have given up my moral convictions and I would not have silenced my right to speak. the marriage would have ended as it should have, a few months after it started. so, I've visited two food banks in the past two days to feed my kids. still, my life is better than it was in twi because at least no one is screaming in my face over my "unbelief" that brought me so low as to need to get food from a food bank to feed my kids.

my thoughts are with you, too.

I find the information about the jesus freaks and early twi fascinating. I was a kid in the 60s but it was a pivotal point for our country and the kids with long hair living like the book of acts caused a lot of upheaval because they were different. it sounds like vpw couldn't stand their non-conformity unless he was controlling it. did Jim's book ever publish? I would love to read it.

yes! twi was very much full of bull excrement every time they told us to get over it. some things are simple to work through, but some things are a struggle, a battle even. while working through the damage done to me in twi I had to relive the worst times of my life so I could stop burying them where they remained a toxic infection. it was worth it. I got through it. there really is no such thing as getting over it, but if you work through it so your mental health depends less on what happened to you in that hellhole and more on your own sense of self-worth, then you're on the right track. I won't ever get over it. but twi doesn't scare me any more, so I'm good.

after leaving twi, I was unable to make decisions by myself for several years so ended up relying on bad advice from opinionated family members. I was diagnosed with PTSD because of abuse by twi leaders and my ex-husband and did some intensive therapy for it. I've been out now for 3.5 years and I think the cognitive-behavioral therapy has been a key component of recovery... but then I also have Aspergers. I'm not sure how much more difficult my transition, from lock-step group-think to having the ability to identify my own beliefs and desires, has been because of my particular brain configuration. maybe it's made some things easier, because I was never tempted to join any of the off-shoots, and because I'm analytical by nature it seemed like a natural process to sift through every belief I'd held dear as an innie to see if it had any practical value in the real world.

my opinion, if it counts for anything, is stay, but post your doctrinal stuff over in doctrinal if you want to discuss religion. post in the way if you want to talk about twi. I stay out of doctrinal because I don't give a carp about doctrine, but I'm still interested in discussions pertaining to twi antics past and present and the recovery of former (and present) members of the cult.

this is an awesome topic. twi destroyed my creativity (YES I SAID CREATIVITY) by telling me what/how/when to paint and draw. I got criticized a lot. after I got out, I purposefully painted a bunch of stuff I knew twibots would say was devilish or unprofitable. I sold every one. I haven't had time to paint since, but at least I'm not worried about what they think. I have plans for a future project that includes lots of drawing and it won't be "on the word" at all. but it will be fun and good and fit a niche and it will make me happy.

JavaJane, that is an awesome dialog! I wish I'd been brave enough. the LC put a lot of pressure on me to go in. it would help my then-husband to "grow up". my then-husband also put a lot of pressure on me to go in with him because being a great man of god would feed his narcissistic ego. needless to say, it was an epic fail.

I've met a couple of lawyers like Larry. wish there were more of them.

twi's doublespeak seems to be their flavor du jour, every day, now. pretty soon now I expect them to declare outright that the devil made them do it. thanks for bringing more of twi's two-faced policy to light. man, I love the internet!

James, this is good news. I agree about giving credit where credit is due but I'd think translation comparison is standard practice so I don't understand twi's beef, especially given that vpw wholesale plagiarized the work of others and gave no credit... in fact he loved to tell how god himself told him what he couldn't tell anyone in almost 2000 years. oh wait, I just remembered what it was like in twi and I completely understand why they had a beef. no one else is supposed to be able to suss out the "truth of god's word" like the holy and committed of twi. barf. anyway, I get tired of reading about twi stomping other organizations over using the word "way" in their name so reading that there's finally an area where christians can work without fear of some frivolous lawsuit from that whited sepulchre makes me feel happy.

yes, absolute control. it only goes to illustrate that where the requirement to be debt-free to participate in certain twi functions was everyday business to all of us in spite of RR's blatant lies under oath, the twi policy on debt went so much deeper. we also had one-on-one sessions about our income and the percentage of our ABS, and certain people at HQ also went on fact-finding forays to get income information from fellow members when the meetings didn't yield satisfactory information. I'd just like to say to all the twi jerkoffs who hassled me about debt and about my loser ex that you didn't want me to divorce because he was so sweet and I was such a bitch, please take all your BS and stick it here: I am so happy I don't have to deal with those people any more. oh and guess what? I have debt! guess why? because my ex is still a loser! guess what else? I'm still far happier in debt and out of twi than I was in twi and free of "debt".

her testimony on debt is such a crock. ex and I had some debt. when I knew about it, we couldn't go to things because I was honest. when he kept it a secret from me, then we got to do things... even go into the corps! of course we got kicked out once the debt was discovered (which could only have been discovered by running a background check). also, I was informed that I had no business getting pregnant if I had debt... so I had to get my ex to pay off dept again so I could have a baby.

thanks for posting that, OldSkool. reading RR's testimony was the thing that made me realize that twi is a whited sepulchre full of corruption, so I count it a blessing from god (if there is a god) that it was published online. the internet is so cool!