LornaDoone

In replying to the excerpt for Chapter 3 he says

"This chapter discusses the topic of the "Unforgivable Sin" and why Christians have not, nor ever could, commit this sin. Again, the Way believed this sin was to be "born again of the devil."

NO WHERE did Dr. Wierwille or any other believer say that a Christian could be born of the devil's seed? We already know that a believer with incorruptible seed cannot commit this sin. Not sure what he is getting at but if this is a prelude to the book, he's misquoting VPW.

Again in the book, he quotes "This chapter raises the question of God's mercy and why the Lake of Fire is so misunderstood in the western mind. Do evil people who die really go to a literal Hell and burn for eternity? It is answered in this chapter."

No where did Dr. Wierwille EVER say that an evil person who dies goes to a literal Hell and burn for eternity. The Word says that devil spirts will be in Hell and tormented. When the Word talks about seperation from the Lord, it gives those that could have believed a glimpse at what they could have had then they are cast into the Lake of Fire for the 2nd death. Not torment.........

people who are depressed may be possessed."

I really have to interject here.

The "MAY" is obvious and Tonya is correct. A person who is depressed may be possessed or influanced by a devil spirit. They may also have other reasons for depression, death, illness etc. can cause depression.

However; as someone who has ministered to believers for depression, "fear spirit" (in my own child) and migraines DUE TO being involved in a seance, I can tell you that depression CAN BE a devil spirit. So cut a little slack here.

When I ministered to a young girl who worked for me because she was getting migrains, I asked her if anything had changed in her life recently, what was she doing, eating, medications etc. The only thing she sheepishly mentioned was participating in a seance. I ministered to her and within 1/2 an hour the headache was gone and never came back as long as I knew her. Does it say in the Word that a migraine can be a devil spirit? NO but that is exactly what it was.

My daughter of 6 was pacing and frantic, after accessing what was going on and taking some other measures, I simply prayed for the FEAR to be gone and we continued with what we were doing and she stopped immediately pacing, worrying and was delivered.

So please before you are so quick to act "spiritually" against someone, consider it was not you teaching the Word & that having a devil spirit does not have to be a big deal. Let's not give old Chit heart any gratification here. What is the difference between a medical reason or a spiritual reason, the spiritual is easily dealt with. That is NOT to say that all problems are devil spirit possession but they can be.

So I am sorry you have depression, I have been there too. It does not nor did Tonya say YOU were possessed. But what if you were, isn't it great to know you can be delivered so easily.

We also recently had a young girl 16 who had been depressed for almost a year. She got ministered to at the Youth Camp for depression and other things and immediately felt a complete change in herself. She has been fine ever since. So what's the big deal, just get the deliverance you need in whatever way you feel you need it.

Thank God for ministeres who have such insight as Rev. Shroyer. Hope you guys have not thrown out the ministering part of the body. Don't magnify being possessed, as I said I've been there and it's real and deliverance is just a real.

Elizabeth, I don't know how God will do it, but you will have a truly blessed wonderful future. Just stay as sweet as you are and keep your relationship tight with God. Hugs :)

Oldies I am so sorry. Ginger loved you very much and always tried to do her best for everyone. She amazed me with her stamina, this had gone on for so many years and now she is at rest. May God bless your family in a big way and keep you all close.

Will certainly keep this family in my prayers. Very sad time.

Have a wonderful Christmas and Happy New Year

The best Christmas present I have or will receive this year. Way to go God.

Did anyone else see Joel & Victoria Osteen on CNN Larry King the other morning, it was around 5 am. It was awesome, he would not, just would not make any remarks about anyone in a qossip kind of way. They explained their whole calling as to bless people and build them up with the Word, no matter what religion they were. Of course they preach Christ but they shared that the principals in the Word work for anyone.

It was refreshing to have a minister not give in to dirt, or compromise at the same time. If it comes on again, watch it. They did talk about "the enemy", but they kept things in perspective and prefer even to talk about the power of God working in people's lives. Perhaps too many of these 'cultish' religions, give too much unhealthy attention to the Adversary, thereby almost worshipping him. God should always get the glory and prophecy should always build up and restore or it's not a word fitly spoken.

The church is to operate within the Love of God and cover a multitude of sins. When it comes to a husband and wife, NO ONE EVER should stick their nose in and encourage a decision to divorce. You never know just what God is going to do in that marriage. The only time I can see it being profitable is if someone is physically abused, other that that, even leadership should mind their business, give the Word of encouragement to stay tight with God and for the spouse who is endeavouring to walk, to believe God to turn their situation around.

Well off to bed and everyone have a wonderful Christmas and New Year filled with all God's goodness & health.

I just heard from the Lord. It's definitely prophecy because it will come to pass. He said I'm going to bed and that's the truth.

Night all, I sure hope the believers in CES don't get too hurt by all of this, especially the ones who have been thru it before. hugs :)

What a bunch of crap. Take down your stupid titles of your ministries and just walk. Stay in your realm of influance & stop trying to make the Word more than it is. Each believer has Christ in them, let them manifest it and function within the Body of Christ.

Let the local leadership (who is to serve, not be served, judgemental & critical) help people. People need to be loved, not dogged to death. Go get real jobs JAL, MG, KG. Get out amoung the people and stop trying to think you are more "spiritual" than other believers. The gift ministries are to bring healing, all your bringing is "hell".

Prophecy, crap, crap. Not the way you are presenting it. Write your stupid books and miss the simplicity of the Word everywhere.

Even when Paul went to Jeruselem, God covered him and Luke went with him. No meekness, no humbleness. Get your lives simple, that's prophecy.

Good Lord.

Father I pray your heart is not hurt by this crap today, in the name of Jesus Christ. May your men and women rise up to the simple, loving, compassionate, healing & abundant life you have called us to and may the egotists drop off this earth quickly.

Give them Lord grace but kick their butts big time so they wake up.

The more I see this crap the more I want to puke. You want to know the downfall.

"Let's learn some new thing, we just have to learn some new thing". Let's "study" the Word and have a new doctrine, keep them coming.

1. When the hell are believers going to learn that Christ is the Head of the Church.

2. They can't learn "some new thing" they have not mastered the basics of being a Christian "and the greatest of these is charity" out of a pure heart.

3. Prophecy, ha, where in the new testament does someone see another believer "in a dream" with their f'n head spinning, crap coming out of their mouth & vicious dogs. BARF, BARF, BARF.

What happened to the Love of God, it is obviously gone from alot of people, trying to be something they will never be, more important than the people they supposedly serve. Love is supposed to cover a multitude of sins.

I find this whole situation so distasteful it sickens me. I left TWI because of the treatment of other people. Those who thought they had a real in with God. I got so spiritually angry, I blasted them good & left them standing with their jaws dropping. I sure hope JAL reads this stuff. Ego's run wild. These guys must have some real inferiority complexes to tear down believers in the name of God. I think an apostle did that before JESUS CHRIST witnessed to him on the road to Demascus. Remember him. The only difference is that he literally killed them. Here you have people tearing other believers down & who knows how many may have committed suicide because of TWI & dangerous cults like this.

Believers just need to meet in their homes, love each other and continually pray together & keep it together. I believe the Word speaks for itself on how a family are to operate. A house divided cannot stand. Everyone does not have the same walk and function. Even the feeble are MORE necessary and members in particular. From whence cometh wars among you. Maybe they should reread the basics and stop trying to be so f'n smart.

I certainly wish each and every one of you a wonderful holiday, filled with love and compassion. I am not Catholic but we could all certainly learn form Mother Teresa. Don't know about you but I'm a saint. God said so. I can do all things.

God bless you all and Eliz............have a big drink on me.

My God, I just finished Elizabeth's letter and boy John should have kissed the ground she walked on for her loving insight. To think he sided against his wife with two a$$ holes who think they are God on a stick.

Karen Ann you should commit yourself, you and your husband are as bad as LCM & TWI.

Next to TWI, this is the most devilish organizaion if they continue to allow these two to function in any capacity. JAL, I spoke to you years ago about your time in TWI and your EGO and you told me you learned a few things since leaving. I think not.

Lording over people and legalism is bull ..... Perhaps you all should take a hiatis like LCM did and go work for UPS.

This makes me ill.................to even think about doing this to any believer. Shame on you all. Having seen these damnable spirits operate in TWI, I believe Elizabeth. Way to go Elizabeth, I hope you are lying in the sun enjoying life to the fullest.

As to CES, your fruit & teaching are being tried in a fire & will burn up if you don't get your act together and get your lives simple. Your egos are so overinflated I don't know if God could ever reach you again.

Shame, shame, shame.

Actually I don't care what Elizabeth's sins are or the fact that some believe she was not on trial. Sure sounds like a trial to me. Make these changes, do this this way, JAL divorce your wife?

A real man would stand by his wife no matter what and help her thru. He is spiritually responsible for her, not everyone else. These "false" prophets are speweing out garbage. Good Lord, let him that is without sin cast the first stone. Shame on you JAL.

[""Introduction to the Prophetic"

Prophetic Seminar 1999

Indianapolis IN

Partners' Price Only $30.00 Partners' Price Only $30.00

Tape 1 - "Introduction to the Prophetic" by Karen Anne Graeser

Tape 2 - "Seek to Excel" by John Lynn

Tape 3 - "Hearing God's Voice" by Karen Anne Graeser

Tape 4 - "I Cor 14: Discerning the Genuine from the Counterfeit" by Mark Graeser Tape 5A - "Prove All Things" by Gene Speakes

Tape 5B - " Evaluating Dominion Theology and the Prophetic" by Mark Graeser

Tape 6 - "Contending for the Faith" by John Schoenheit

Tape 7 & 8A - "Questions and Answers"

"

Boy I can't stand this ..... Knowledge sure does puff up. They will never move the Word until they get simple again. BARF :(

Am I the only one who almost got physically nauseaus reading Elizabeth's letter?

The demonic accusations this woman has had to endure under the guise of "prophecy." The - ok, I'll say it, though I hate to - the "devlishness" of the prophetic council - truly, satan's ministers have been working overtime masquerading as ministers of light.

The hate, creulty and condemnation they have driven into this woman's life to the point of contemplating ending it - this is not of God.

I don't care how "strong" JAL is in the "word" - anyone can memorize verses and chapters, but to allow anyone to gossip and accuse one's wife like that is disgusting and shameful in my book."

I agree with you Sunesis, I was not only sickened, all I could think about was the Salem Witch Trials. These guys are nuts, nuts, nuts, cult of the worst degree.

When the hell are believers going to learn to keep the word simple. Sounds like these "false prophets" have watched too many Angel Heart & Rosemary's baby movies. They are sick sick sick.

They should all mind their own business and stay the "fxxx" out of the believers lives. You pray for and with people and then allow GOD to work. Too many cooks if you ask me. Their fruit will expose them. I was sickened by that "prophetic piece" about Elizabeth.

John should have stuck by his wife, believed her through it and told them to go "fxxx" themselves. Been there done that. Life is not perfect in any way and it does not matter what problems we encounter as believers and we get some doosies, GOD DELIVERS OUT OF THEM ALL. Sounds like they got JAL to compromise on their terms and give up on his wife.

Sick Sick Sick. Oh Lord, kick their axxes. Protect your people from these barbarians.

Praying here too...........

This infection has to go in the name of Jesus Christ.................

Keeping you all in my prayers..........hugs :)

Great news, pace yourself.

Praying for you.

Keeping the prayers coming..............

Oops, looks like you were removed Nato? Can't get to the post anymore. I guess we made our points.

I guess with over 800 coming in for the Adv'd Class Special, it will be a busy weekend.

Wow. I'm just really ticked off that even a year and a half later, this crap still consumes my thoughts. I think that's really why I fired off like that. I'm sick of it. 30 years of living with it was too much. Why can't I just completely forget about it?

Nato, you really went off. If you want them to receive your reproff or instruction, you have to learn to make your point in a loving way. I defended you but not without some reproff.

How's it going? Still praying for you and your family. Hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving and that things are on the upswing.