LornaDoone

I think not! Why go backwards if you have built a new life with God and his Word? Isn't this ultimately about Him and not pleasing men? Just a thought!

Ummmm! I started a new thread for consideration. I see alto of sarcasm here. If what is said by Catcup is true, many lives will be touched and healed by loved ones that are still "in". This in itself would be a good thing and even though leadership did not officially apologize, it's a starting point in the healing process.

I think we have to cut some slack here so you don't thwart possible reconnections by those that have shunned their families. At least if the believers that are still in do this, it will certainly solidify for them that TWI has made huge mistakes. That in itself is a big step in the right direction.

The results may be just what TWI needs to make a more formal announcement or at least personal contacts. As for any lawsuits, that should not happen. If the olive branch is being extended the least one can do is accept it. Those within the walls of TWI are probably hurting as much as some of us here.

In addition, as to $'s. The money for ABS was given by most of you from the heart. God is still the searcher of all hearts and if you truly gave in that manner, he has and will continue to bless you. God is your sufficiency not man. I also gave for 29 years. I did not give to the TWI ministry, I gave to God. There is no way that he could have blessed me more than he has, either in or out. I still see the results day to day. So maybe a little change of heart is in order here and if it happens it may be time to move on to better interactive conversations. BTW, you don't HAVE to accept an apology but at least they would have done the right thing. JMO

Would you finally let it go if it was based on a sincere apology? Would you stop posting on greasespot about TWI? What would be the right thing to do if they gave a formal apology?

I found another website? Interesting, I haven't browsed it yet but it's:

http://www.familytables.net

Why? The only reason I could ever think of going back is to pull them out of the fire!

Boy he changed his tune quick. Maybe he's a greasepot lurker.

for Lorna Doone:

"I had know this couple since 1978, when they met in a college town in Ohio, and eventually got married. Mrs. R**** was thought of as a most exceedingly great and mighty woman of God. Her husband was a very strict disciplinarian. Once I saw him make their oldest boy, 9 at the time, bend over in front of him then he kicked him hard in the buttocks, sending him stumbling across the room. The child gave his father a look of pure hatred for a second, which fortunately his father didn't see."

Hi WG,

I can believe this, but I do not believe we were ever taught to "beat" a child, just one crack to get their attention. I raised my own kids that way and it worked. Today they are wonderful parents and have great children. Beating is another story, he was obviously WAY OFF THE WORD, like "provoke not your children to wrath". A$$ hole that he was. I really don't need to know who, I've seen enough idiocy in TWI to puke. I think my only ? was to what a one yr old would say or remember.

well, for starters, that billy kid is an unlearned parrot of Way propaganda. "Lorna" was really giving to them! i do not believe in the Trinity, so i agree with the answers given, again, not unique to The Way ONLY. But about Revelations, that book is pretty much "hands off". I dont think The Way teaches its the only book that takes place in the future, that kid dosnt know whats going in most of his posts...

then again im not up on the most RECENT teachings... :)

I doubt they teach that Chief but if they allow him not to be blocked. , he will be sure to make the "cult watchers" happy.

It's sad because he has great enthusiam but in the wrong place.

Well not to change the subject on info at TWI but I did get to My space.com and was finally blocked along with John Richeson. Check this thread at My space. The Way International Question:

One of TWI members has a newbie who asked some honest questions about the book of Revelation.

April 29, 2006 posting.

from TWI believer

" Revelation is a very unique book as it is the only book in the bible that takes place in the future.

When did TWI start teaching that the Book of Revelation is the only book in the Bible that is future? What about Hebrews and the biggie THESSALONIANS.

I once saw WC grads beat their 1-year-old daughter repeatedly with a spoon because she wouldn't apologize for throwing pebbles.

WG I have a problem believing this as a one year old does not talk and they would never understand what apologize even means. Sorry but this one is over the top.

Been away too long, . Can't wait for more of Bills insight. Anyway if it's today I'm a ready to go. If it's in the future, near or far I am ready to go. Just keep on trucking for the Lord.

Can't be owned by TWI II/III or whatever they are this week. They would be encouraging debt to offer monthly payments.

Sorry for spouting off!

Wow, T-bone you are really deep. Yes, I question a lot of things. What I was taught from a little girl all the way up through my involvement with twi. I guess the main reason I'm gathering info. is due to my all consuming belief that twi was absolutely right on and they did everything in a Godly way. Although, the last several years that ideal mind set has been coming off in layers. It started with the whole debt issue, I didn't understand it and I started questioning why they didn't have a "book" about it. I really wanted to understand it and the more leaders ( and non leaders) I talked to the more I got confused. Everyone had a different opinion that contradicted the other. I looked at it on my own and came to my own conculsions for the first time without help.

Woa DJ, God is so blessed with you and your open heart to him. I believe the things you were taught as a little girl was exactly what God wanted for you. You responded in a Godly way and he was able to have you hear what you needed but your heart did not become corrupt. I loved TWI in the early days. My family and I were so blessed. However; with the legalism (telling my husband after 25 yrs that he had to sell our house to get out of debt, what crap, our home has tripled in the last 10 yrs., this was our investment and nest egg & God has multiplied it back), they are so damn nosey it makes one sick. You saw it and are still seeing it under the guise of their being nice now. However TRUST is earned and people do not believe them anymore. They had their chance and blew it. God has moved on. I know just how you feel. When the 1st split came I was so in denial. How could God allow this to happen when we had all been praying for "our ministry" for years. It just could not happen...... I finally saw that it was no longer "our ministry" but that of a few people who wanted to be "heads of The Body of Christ". All chiefs and no Indians. Excuse the pun.

However; God cannot work in concrete hearts and that's what happened. He HAD to move on for His Word to live again & heal all those who were so loyal. I have seen more in the last 6 years than in the last 15. God is alive and working thru those who are faithful in heart to him. It's like the Tower of Babel. When they stopped being true to God and wanted their little sub culture, he had to confound them so they would again move out. Well that's TWI today. They have some really nice people there BUT it's just a religion and that is NOT what God wants. Those that shun family members make me want to puke. They are so full of fear that their leader.... will get on their backs and they don't know how to handle it. God forbid they should say they went home and had a wonderful time. Good Lord even unbelievers treat their families better than that. This is all so ungodly and it's a perversion of The Word.

So he is tugging at your heart and you have nothing to lose because you cannot make a mistake with God. Fear would be the only thing holding you back. TWI will never do what is needed to really heal The Body of Christ that they DESTROYED. They have to take responsibility and they never will so, God has to move elsewhere. DJ do not be afraid. You can heal the sick, raise the dead & teach like crazy with all the LOVE OF GOD in your heart. You do not need them, they have nothing to offer but dead sermons and playing at church.

I hear all the time about how bored people are. They are really disheartened at what has happened and they long for the former fellowship that they know is available. So go do it. You will be amazed how many will be there with you.

An honest question. Do you really believe God is limited to TWI? So let us know when and where we can help you. There are alot of truly loving people out there waiting for the Word, (not religion) and you have the answers.

Give it a go and be patient. Just have fun every day and love God. *%^#* the devil off and be joyful and happy again.

Hugs to you honey, you are the best. None of us will ever be perfect but most here have learned that we are an important part of The Body of Christ and God's will must be first.

:)

Hi DJ

I don't get to the computer too often but I really believe you have to ask yourself if The Way International has become a CULT. Whenever any group isolates themselves as "the group", when in reality they are only part of The Body of Christ, then something is radically wrong. I can tell you from still having family members in that they are still being taught (corps) to shun relatives that have left. In addition there is sickness at TWI that should not be, serious stuff for young believers and I attribute it to stress. Again I am talking about Corps. Joe believer may not see what is going on behind the scenes.

So I am going to quote The Word on the subject of LEGALISM:

"Galatians 3:1  O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2  This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3  Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

4  Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

5  He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

6  Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7  Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8  And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9  So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10  For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11  But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12  And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13  Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14  That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15  Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

16  Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17  And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18  For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

19  Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

20  Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

21  Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22  But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23  But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24  Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25  But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26  For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27  For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29  And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

DJ The legalism is still there, they are not an open door ministry like when Dr. W. was there. If you are not with them they believe you are against them, unlike what Jesus said. They still believe that they have the truth and the truth be told, many have moved on from TWI and are beginning to see GREAT SIGNS, WONDERS & MIRACLES AGAIN AND GREAT HEALINGS.

You will know them by their fruit and they are not having much fruit. I am talking about healings, signs, wonders and miracles. They do not treat their Corps. well, they have menial health care, they really don't have a pension, God is bigger than TWI, DJ, so just a little food for thought.

O.K. , so believe the bible then - bring about world peace, put an end to suffering, hunger, and want. And bring joy to everyone.

I'll watch...

George the bible is not written to unbelievers, nor is God responsible to do anything for them. So you will not at this time bring about world anything.

Well if it's not "PFAL", I guess they don't have to let you in. I bet they have a new name. :unsure:

I really loved our twig in the 70's. Everything was so spontaneous and God inspired. We really enjoyed just hanging out with the Word at the center and focus was on prayer and getting needs met. The signs, wonders and miracles were there all the time. I think it depended on the people you were with and the quality and love of certain leaders who were really in it for their love of service.

Now they do not serve anything but .... and they are rapidly going down the tubes. Boring is not the Word for it. Remember sincerity is NO guarantee for truth. IMHO

From experience, I firmly believe that I would much rather depend on God than any money I earned. So therefore ABS, giving, tithe, whatever you call it, is such a great tool that God trusted to us to see that tight relationship with Him grow into complete dependance on Him. He truly wants to be our sufficiency.

In addition, I can't see how anyone would ever want to give less than the tithe, if that was required back in the O.T. when they were not direct sons and daughters of God. Is it fear that keeps people hashing the subject or is it that people are really having a problem in the area of giving.

This is one of the areas that I really worked on when I first got into the word. It was always from the heart. I was so thankful to find that by sharing back to God I really, truly had his protection for myself, my family and it would aid my spiritual growth. To call it tithe probably is wrong but at least it's a beginning point for many who want to build on that foundation. I think the main issue is to help people get over the fear of not giving. I hear many say that they gave for years and did not see the fruit. I would guarantee if they were not being mechanical and being coerced into giving they HAD to have fruit. God never fails us.

HAHAHAHAHA, but you forgot about "THE PRESENT TRUTH". New heavy revvie from God for the DOGFOT. That's Director Of God For Our Time. Almost sounds like Dog Fart. LOLROFLMAO

Go to it Rosie.

God this is a great topic. How I pray many more will be pulled out of the fire. Is it possible that TWI will fall. Soon I hope, there are many more good people there who are just blinded by

Greetings Seeker.

In referance to "bondage". You can be assured that whatever you have given will come back to you. I know much has been said about the tithe here but regardless of whether or not someone tithes, the word says to do it or not in the Church Epistles, it still works. It's the heart that counts. Sounds more to me like many people may want an excuse not to give.

Bottom line is that God has not changed. He will honor anyones heart who gives. The tithe still works just as it did in the O.T. As a matter of fact it's a great way to prove God in your life. I have never, never been disappointed. Things are still coming back to me and I would not feel limited to the tithe. You still cannot outgive God and personally why wouldn't a believer want to give as much as they can (from the heart).

God needs money to move the Word. We want to have God super blessing us all the time, so is alot of this observation based on fear. I have personally challanged people that were heavy in debt to DOUBLE their giving and they came back to me and their debt was relieved fast. They were blown away. So I believe it's still DOUBT, WORRY & FEAR in believers that holds them back. God is really there. He will never leave his kids hanging if they are trying to do what they belive in their hearts is right. So while it may not say title, I contend that "cheerful giving" is # 1, then "he that giveth sparingly shall reap sparingly" is # 2.

If all of us here really believe there is a God and he is our Father, how can we not believe he will honor our hearts, bless us abundantly and give to us when we have need.

IMO

I've deeply appreciated Lifted Up's comments on this subject over the years. I maintain my belief that this is most likely a lie of VPW, the first of two snowstorm lies in his illustrious career. You all recall the second lie, don't you?

Seems like we are disecting God here.

I know that God can make it snow if even for a minute and do something necessary to encourage a believer. So what's the big deal. I don't belive it's a lie, I've had things like that happen to me, the only difference is it was for me and I didn't build a ministry around it and necessarily share it with everyone.

We had one believer who was of the Jewish faith, take the PFAL class and get born again. When she went outside on a break, the clouds formed a dove. It was so obvious and God did it just for her. There were witnesses present but we all knew it was for WG, she was the one to see it first and we were all grads. It was perfect.

With God nothing is impossible

Hi,

I just posted this on another thread but it seemed to line up with the question here.

I have been catching up on some of the posts here and just wanted to let you know that we also faced the same trials that you face. I knew in my heart that God would honor any decision my husband and I made and that The Body of Christ would still continue to function. We did not know what God had in store for us but we knew that living with TWI was not going to be the best route to move God's Word.

There would be too many questions and things to explain to new people and their families because people will ultimately check out the web site. So we decided that God had to be first and his Word had to come before good friends, even if they were believers. We never felt bitter toward those in our fellowships and most from our area also left soon after. Now we continue to fellowship, just don't have a title. The Word is hot and moving again and God's agenda is being fullfilled.

So that's really what it comes down to. What is the best for moving the Word and growth in your own lives and that of your children. It would actually be good for them to learn that God comes first. The burden put on believers from TWI is unrealistic. Most who are in do not even know what happened so they would have a very hard time disputing with new people who may have checked them out. God does not want this added stress in a believer's life. He wants us blessed in moving His word. If people will come with a huge load of doubt, the manifestations will not flow, deliverance and healing will not happen as readily as if people are certain of the Word they are taught. The TWI would be better changing their whole structure, changing their name and moving on, instead of hanging onto MAN MADE traditions.

So that's what we did, we put God 1st and never looked back. We still have great relationships with many believers and God will guide you also to where YOUR ministry can function to it's best.

love you and God bless your hearts for wanting to see his Word alive and moving again.

Hi,

I have been catching up on some of the posts here and just wanted to let you know that we also faced the same trials that you face. I knew in my heart that God would honor any decision my husband and I made and that The Body of Christ would still continue to function. We did not know what God had in store for us but we knew that living with TWI was not going to be the best route to move God's Word.

There would be too many questions and things to explain to new people and their families because people will ultimately check out the web site. So we decided that God had to be first and his Word had to come before good friends, even if they were believers. We never felt bitter toward those in our fellowships and most from our area also left soon after. Now we continue to fellowship, just don't have a title. The Word is hot and moving again and God's agenda is being fullfilled.

So that's really what it comes down to. What is the best for moving the Word and growth in your own lives and that of your children. It would actually be good for them to learn that God comes first. The burden put on believers from TWI is unrealistic. Most who are in do not even know what happened so they would have a very hard time disputing with new people who may have checked them out. God does not want this added stress in a believer's life. He wants us blessed in moving His word. If people will come with a huge load of doubt, the manifestations will not flow, deliverance and healing will not happen as readily as if people are certain of the Word they are taught. The TWI would be better changing their whole structure, changing their name and moving on, instead of hanging onto MAN MADE traditions.

So that's what we did, we put God 1st and never looked back. We still have great relationships with many believers and God will guide you also to where YOUR ministry can function to it's best.

love you and God bless your hearts for wanting to see his Word alive and moving again.