mdsnpp

To answer your question Waterbuffalo, no I do not know of anyone who was prayed for/had spirits cast out, or in any other form got an instant or miraculaous deliverance from depression. Certainly it was tried many times at the non-twi church I attended for several years. I do believe that God revealed to me that a woman in a Bible Study was planning her own demise that very night, which was confirmed, and she had the pharmacologic ammunition in her purse. The pastor and I confronted her and convince her to go to the hospital. I lost track of her and have no idea how she is doing no(or even if she is still alive). The literature suggests that about 25% of people recover spontaneously, without therapy or meds, but who knows if these individuals were actually depressed. For my part, I believe that God most often delivers us little by little as we apply his principles. In my case, it took years and yes, most of the meds made me feel worse-however that isn't true for everyone. I pray strength for those who are still stuck and urge you not to give up hope.

These are some different but well balanced views on the issue-thanks for the great posts! I wish I had something to offer about VNS treatment -unfortunately I have only read about it. It is not offered in this backwater area. I do know that the teachings of Joyce Meyer( who talks alot about "holy oomph", basically one of the fruits of the spirit, ie self discipline) are what led me out of my quagmire but it did take years, it was very hard and is a work in progress!

absolutely, don't give up hope! treatments are improving all the time. More and more mainstream- type churches are viewing depression as an illness like high blood pressure or diabetes. If you don't respond to the first medicine you try, keep going back! There is alot of new stuff out there for" treatment resistant depression". Do not allow shame or ignorance to stop you.

unfortunately ,low IQ has a great deal to do with low functioning, however high IQ is no guarantee of high functioning. Motivation and preseverance are equally or more important. what are the vagaries of this mundane existance? There are so many. one example comes to mind quickly- a group of folks who start out with wonderful intentions, teaching the Word "as it hasn't been taught since the first century" and wind up as a extremely spiritually abusive organization. Not only that, as a fellow oenophile, I've often been sorely disappointed by a 25 dollar bottle of wine. These and others of life's major and minor problems commonly magnified by depression. I hadn't heard about Martin Luther but Abraham Lincoln's depressive illness is well documented-there's hope for the suffering!

This is my specialty, so to speak, folks who report symptoms that are greatly in excess of what can be observed objectively and/or demonstrated in diagnostic tests. There are a number of motivations, ranging from conscious and deliberate with concrete objectives to entirely subconscious. Some of these folks are simply attempting to get a disbability check, or in my workplace, are seeking to get out of the harsh corrections environment into the kinder and gentler psych hospital. Some are catastrophizing a legitimate but fairly benign illness or symptom (like headaches) due to anxiety. Some are experiencing a legitimate but relatively rare mental disorder called a conversion disorder whereby psychiatric distress is converted into a bonafide disability like blindness or paralysis. Some have somatization disorder, requiring at least 8 medically unexplained symptoms. Some function at a high level despite this problem, others are totally disabled. Some have factitious disorder, a condition where there is an unconscious motivation to play the pateient role. Some have a personality disorder whereby they like to create histrionic chaos and thrive on drama. This area of medicine is probably the most fascinating of all, to tease out the person's motivations and true level of functioning. When I was a new nurse, I worked with young Vietnamese people and I had a young man who came into the clinic saying via the translator that he had been vomiting 5x a day for a month. The doctor recommended weighing him and he had gained 15 lbs. He was told to bring in a sample of the vomit so we could analyze it to determine appropriate treatment(not a real diagnostic test). I never saw him again. I do believe he was in some form of distress but he was not wasting away from a gastrointestinal illness.

Borderline intellectual functioning is not a marker for depression, i'm sorry if i gave that impression. It is a marker for poor overall functioning, particularly if psychosocial adversity is severe. On the contrary, i beleive that individuals of above average IQ are at an increased risk for depression for a variety of reasons, although i don't know of many clinical studies to support this. many have high expectations and those expectations may or may not be fulfilled due to the vagaries of this mundane existance. However, working is a correctional setting, i cannot say i commonly treat the above average intelligence person. however, i do know, for example, that female physicians have double the rate of suicide compared to other female college graduates. how does one account for that? i can only suspect that reality did not meet expectations.

Mania for men by armani......

Regarding the inmate population-my patients area very select group in that at any given time they "supposedly" represent the most unstable or seriously mentaly ill individuals among the 8-9,000 inmates receiving mental health services in this state. Our facility is an inpatient hospital, with about 200 beds, actually not a "jail" per se. Most of what we see here are individuals with schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and severe behavioral problems often related to antisocial personality disorder(what is called making a poor adjustment to incarceration-often throwing feces at corrections staff). We see some depression here, but not as much as one would think, and often the depression predates incarceration and is extremely chronic or "characterologic", beginning in early teen years. It is often associated with substance abuse, which only deepens depression, as well as borderline intellectual functioning, IQ in the 70-85 range. Not mental retardation but not rhodes scholarship material, either. It is exacerbated by social conditions and policies that encourage men to abandon the families they can't support- at least then the families will be eligible for welfare and state medicaid. The extremely high cost of living in NY City adds to it-what can a person with a 9th grade education and an IQ to match do to legally earn a living wage in NY? I submit to you-nothing. What percentage are mentally ill? About 10% of inmates in this state receive services, in some cases that means counseling only without meds. About 60% of the individuals sent to this hospital are mentally ill, by which I mean schizophrenic or psychotic, probably 20% are chiefly antisocial personality disordered with behavioral issues, another 5% are mentally retarded, perhaps 5% are depressed, and about 10% are flat out malingerers, feigning mental illness for soemsecondary gain. Considering our population, we do a good job in that our suicide rate is no higher than the rate for similar populations(men 20-60) in the community. Most of our suicide attempts do not reflect genuine depression but are manipulative attempts to be sent to a different prison, etc. Fortunately, few of these attempts are sucessful. Sorry about the long answer-this is my life's call!!!

Why are inmates doing life without parole relatively rarely depressed? I have a few theories..many are narcissistic and just plain think awful highly of themselves. Many believe that they will actually get out, that their appeal will be sucessful. A few carve out a life in prison for themselves by helping others...most inmates have antisocial personality disorder and for those folks, life is cheap, even their own. They had no meaning in their lives on the street and none in jail. What's the difference?at least with jail you get 3 hots and a cot. They had no expectations of sucess and were only ever interested in material things that they had to steal or do other illegal things to get. Murderers are almost never remorseful and all the rapists in jail are innocent, thats another factor. Its amazing what you can make yourself believe if you want to badly enough!

"The joy of the Lord is my strength" .....despite twi, I very much believe in God and i am sure that my work with inmates as a Nurse Practitioner is ordained of Him. It is the good works that we are to walk in that ephesians talks about. His joy is most assuredly my strength and has been ever since I first heard about his Word all those years ago from a fringe cult-like group:). Negative emotions drain power, not that we will never have them but I don't beleive we are to be dominated by them. I still believe in overcoming evil with good. I had so many many twists and turns in getting my credentials, one would almost think a spiritual force was trying to stop me:) I hung on and I PRESSED to get my victory and I am so glad I did. I kept saying "be not weary in well doing for in due season YE SHALL REAP IF YE FAINT NOT". I now have a fulfillment that was only a dream 30 years ago when I first went to college. This career did not even exist! I have the regular satisfaction of seeing dramatic recoveries, most commonly from schizophrenia. Yes, His joy is my strength. I also was fortunate in that I was not particularly abused by twi, having left around 1981...

I am a Nurse Practitioner in Psychiatry (NPP per my user name) and I can certify that depression is extraordinarily complex, and very hard to treat. I work in a state hospital for inmates, many of whom are doing life without parole, and yet I seldom see true depression in this population. I mean a handful of cases in 3 years. Medicine helps some folks, for many others it does nothing. We don't know why. We don't even really know what depression is. The side effects of meds can be life-destroying-like anorgasmia, for one. I have come to believe that there are as many different kinds of depression as there are depressed people. A few need more faith, many need to stop being condemned about their faith. Some need to excercise. Some need to stop excercising so much. Some need a better diet, some need to eat a little candy once in awhile. Some need a partner, some need a divorce. Some need an advanced degree to fulfill their call in this life. Some need to do their laundry and clean their house, literally and figuratively. Some need to forgive somebody, some need to get mad at somebody. As someone has said ,if the human mind were so simple we could understand it, we would be too simple to understand it. My take on a complex phenomena. When a new patient walks in the door, I always get a sinking feeling when depression is the main issue. I know that it is very unlikely that I'll see a dramatic improvement, especially if its a long-standing problem. I do thank twi for teaching me that the joy of the Lord is my strength. I had never heard it at the presbyterian church I grew up in...its gotten me through some very tough times.

yep i got my jan/feb issue yesterday...don't they usually come out a little ahead of time not way behind? any way, it was remarkable for its blandness and there's a lead article by John Lynn who I always respected and never pictured becoming one of "them"...who allows their spouse to be so hideously maligned on such flimsy and ludicrous grounds ?Should I say what normal person? I heard a teaching one time about the danger of "knowledge"...that knowledge without direct experience and without direct fruit bearing only makes you more "religious".The whole thing is sad

I have managed to pull myself out of crushing debt, but it took years. I do a number of things that I feel really help. I treat myself with inexpensive things on a regular basis so I don't feel "deprived"- a magazine subscription for example. I bring my lunch most of the time. I think many times before making a nonessential purchase, realizing the urge will pass and that item will probably still be around in a year or so when I've paid down more of my debt. I went to school and got a much better job and then a second parttime job, fortunately I love them both. I fully understand this will not be feasible for everyone. We have our furnace on a timer so( no one is home during the day), the heat comes on 30 minutes before we come home, shuts off at 9 pm and goes on again from 5-7am while we are getting up.We use electric blankets and heated throws. These measures can and will save you probably 1500-2000 a year, well worth doing. I discovered the salvation army a few years ago where if you look you can usually find many new items each week, even business/dressy wear. I no longer go to regular stores except on very rare occasions.I used to shop every week, typically spending 200 dollars or more!!! I have actually found a garage that doesn't rip you off in repairs, this is surprisingly common. Ask around for a better garage if you suspect yours. I don't smoke anymore, a double blessing. I take pleasure and enjoyment from the outdoors and change of season. In short, I have attempted to maximize earnings, minimize the consumption lifestyle and now I am able to pay down my debt at least 1000 a month, sometimes more. I don't have alot of easy answers for those of you who have alot of kids or other situations beyond your control. Yes, you are being manipulated by these companies, they have you by the "family jewels" and only you can decide what steps to take to begin to solve the problem. Just rememberIt wasn't created overnight and won't be solved that way

yes I believed alot of it, most of it, especially the great news about the Cross and Resurrection (never had really heard it before). Knew that certain things were bogus, knew that not everyone was sincere, never thought we had some kind of unique hook up with the Creator.Believed in the gifts and still do. Did not beleive that the organization would last, I could see it would not. Four crucified? Peter denied Christ how many times? Faith vs believing and all those similar doctrines to me were silly nit-picking. Where was the real power and the holiness? absent. Thats why I left, but have never been sorry I was "in"....

well said, it is evident that the experiences of people on this board represent an enormous range. When people find out I'm a Christian they are generally pretty surprised as i am not dogmatic-I know better. I also don't beleive in throwing the baby out with the bathwater.